Skybus

[Shrek]

Here's just a small list:

I remember when SWA was the new kid on the block and the "major airline" pilots made fun of them and thumbed their noses at the idea of working for this scrappy little airline.

I remember when Value Jet started, everyone laughed at them and prayed for their failure.

I remember when Jet Blue started. I'll give them 2 to three years, what a bunch of losers, how many times did I hear that?

How about those PFT whores we all heard about 7 to ten years ago, well many of those guys and gals are captains at SWA, AirTran, JetBlue and other "major airlines".

My point:
You can't fight change by holding out your services because you think you are above it. Change is going to happen, either embrace it and make things better in time or have your little empire get it's butt whipped by the SWA's, JetBlue's or the AirTran's of today. The market will determine if these new business models will work in the USA.

If you feel better by not taking advantage of the new airlines like SkyBus or Virgin, good for you, but don't stick your nose up at those that do.

You might need a job from one of those guys ten years from now.:bawling:

If the choice is to fly for SkyBus or not at all........not at all it is then. Doubt there will even be a Union there.

This whole - I am gunna get mine and screw everybody else crap has to STOP.........it is pathetic-selfish and in the long run detrimental to wages and QOL for every pilot out there.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL... you do realize that DAL FO's used to make what AAI captains ARE CURRENTLY making flying the same equipment, don't you?

Of course. And back then, AAI and JetBlue were the problems that eventually paved the way for the massive concessions that we've seen. Now Skybus and VA are here doing the same thing. Are we going to learn from the past and not repeat it, or are we going to stumble right into the same mistakes and watch as 737/Airbus pay plummets to RJ levels? Those that work for and defend Skybus are choosing the latter.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Before you go down on bended knee about Ryan Air, perhaps you should do a little research on Michale O'Leary, the CEO of Ryan Air, and his business approach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_O'Leary_(Ryanair)

Its real easy, he doesn't have one. He pays what he thinks a product is worth, that includes employees. If he thinks an employee is making too much, he just fires them, if someone complains, he just fires them.
Then there's the little tidbit about vendors. If he agrees to something, he will then go back on that ageement, paying them what he thinks its worth. If they don't like it, too bad!
Don't think that kind of philosophy isn't possible at scumbus!
I wish you success there, but I think you're making a terrible mistake. We, in the US don't need that type of product.
Also, it might be in your best interest to ask a VA or BA pilot, better yet, Aer Lingus pilot, what they think of their peers at the wonderful Ryan Air.

737

I appreciate the concern but I declined the job offer from SkyBus...... thanks for the warning though. I have heard that pilots at Ryan Air have no love for the guy that runs the place. Other than Herb @ SWA years ago where has any pilot ever shown "love" for management??????

 

[Freight Dog]

Of course. And back then, AAI and JetBlue were the problems that eventually paved the way for the massive concessions that we've seen. Now Skybus and VA are here doing the same thing. Are we going to learn from the past and not repeat it, or are we going to stumble right into the same mistakes and watch as 737/Airbus pay plummets to RJ levels? Those that work for and defend Skybus are choosing the latter.

Right, and now we're all suffering as the result of AAI and JetBlue undercutting. So what's the difference between Skybus and VA today as opposed to AAI and JetBlue yesterday? Hey, after all you took a job with AAI because you accepted the new "industry standard."

I guess what I'm trying to say is that "defending the profession" doesn't start at Boeing/Airbus level. It starts at the bottom. It starts with a pilot not paying an EAL scab to work for him as a required crewmember. It starts with a pilot not accepting a job at a sh*tty regional like Mesa or PCL for example.
When pilots entering this industry say it's not worth their time to work for these lowball outfits, that's when you'll see changes. Fortunately, it's starting to look that way...

 

[737 Pylt]

I appreciate the concern but I declined the job offer from SkyBus...... thanks for the warning though.

Good move......

I have heard that pilots at Ryan Air have no love for the guy that runs the place. Other than Herb @ SWA years ago where has any pilot ever shown "love" for management??????

Roger that!

737

 

[HA25]

read this off another forum, I couldn't have said it better myself..

The naysayers are strutting out the whole 'Greyhound Bus of the Skies' metaphor, forgetting (conveniently) that all the legacy carriers out there--that would be the 'once-proud' legacy carriers--are nothing but Greyhound buses themselves. The gap between what the legacy carriers offer and what Skybus offers (in terms of service on-board) is marginal. Where the legacy carriers do shine, though, is in their vast networks. But even there, these 'networks' comprise third-tier regional carriers flying Lawn Darts. The big carriers affiliate themselves with the regional carriers when it's to their advantage to do so, and they distance themselves from them when it's to their advantage to do so (the 'Not-Our-Fault' syndrome)

so true! The reason Skybus exists, and others similar will follow is that the legacy airlines have forgotten to provide value for their price. If you're going to charge me more than Southwest, then give me more.. I swear on most domestic routes on legacy carriers I get better food on a Southwest flight than I do on those. At least Skybus gives you the chance to buy good quality food if that's what you want, or you can just sit there and sleep, you have a choice.

 

[737 Pylt]

so true! The reason Skybus exists, and others similar will follow is that the legacy airlines have forgotten to provide value for their price.

Wrong! Its because of sh1t operations like scumbus that legacy carriers have had to reduce to their service to compete! Charge $20 for a 1 way ticket and you get what you pay for!

If you're going to charge me more than Southwest, then give me more.. I swear on most domestic routes on legacy carriers I get better food on a Southwest flight than I do on those.

See the above statement!

At least Skybus gives you the chance to buy good quality food if that's what you want, or you can just sit there and sleep, you have a choice.

With 156 people crammed into a 319 with 31" seat pitch? Good luck with that.
We get it dude, you work for scumbus and are proud!
Congrats on bringing the industry even lower into the toilet!

737

 

[HA25]

I don't work for them yet, but your attitude frankly stinks.. so why should I care what you think?

Your answers from above are wrong.. it's not the low cost carriers that caused it, they're success is a by product of it. Well before 9/11 the cutbacks and service reductions had begun. Post 9/11 it's been a disaster.. Sure the Legacies (some more than others) are not bad on the International flights in terms of service, but even then they're no match for Singapore, Emirates, and the like.. Face it, the Legacies need to remake themselves and evolve, or they'll go the way of the dinosaurs (only a it will be a slow death).

Now if you can get me proof that Skybus is going to bring down your wages, I'd be happen to listen, but if you're just going to throw stones then I'm done here.

Remember, there was no Skybus when DALPA voted in their DEEP pay cuts.

 

[Shrek]

So today waiting out a delay at CMH I am sitting down eating lunch, and the pilot next to me who worked for Skybus struck up a conversation. I do not really know much about Skybus, and he filled me in. Low pay, but stock options, that is why he was there, whatever I think not my problem.
Then he ask me about flying for Eagle, I tell him that I am happy and as far as regionals go I can not think of any place I would rather work, and also that I am considering a move to Netjets. He then goes on to tell me how I should consider coming to Skybus, they may not pay a lot but at least I get to fly at a major airline. I asked him why he thinks of Skybus as a major, and his response was "because we have big planes" ..........from another thread

FMS - This Sky-Sore driver is actually SENIOR to you........lol. Very very sad.........but I am sure you will fall into that pool of Skybus-Aid and eventually have to wipe your a** with your stock options.

Have fun..........

 

[countbat]

Unfortunately, in our society, money talks, BS walks. Same with everything else, not just aviation. What about the difference between quality food restaurants and fast food chains? Or any brand stores and Wall-Mart? Everybody is bitching about Wall-Mart while does the shoping overthere. In today's wages that is a perfect store. The future will tell if the mighty public will like airlines such as Skybus? One will never know. Rest is just cheap talking. Not everyone can gets a job at Fedex(or any other legay) and the Fedex guy will not share his wages with the guy from Mesa. The guy from Fedex will defend his wages, in the same way the guy from Mesa will fight for better wages. We all know beauty is in the eyes of beholder, same way Skybus wages are good for the more needing ones. For many pilots that kind of wages are a dream comes true, for others is a joke. But life is funny many times. I have seen former United pilots (or any other legacy) who after loosing their well paid jobs, at the end of their savings, begging for food. It seems we haven't learn anything from the tragedy called 9/11.

 

[Shrek]

Begging for food......RRRIIIIGGGGHHHTTT !!!

 

[BigMeat]

The issue is this. Yes SWA, Airtran etc. payed crap when the first started. The diffrence is that then they were not great places to work (financially) until they did. Then they earned enough respect from people seeking professional careers. I wouldnt have gone to place that payed 65k a year as a captain on an Airbus. Make that 165 then they can have my attention and respect.

 

[Neubyfly]

deleted

 

[The Victors]

The issue is this. Yes SWA, Airtran etc. payed crap when the first started. The diffrence is that then they were not great places to work (financially) until they did. Then they earned enough respect from people seeking professional careers. I wouldnt have gone to place that payed 65k a year as a captain on an Airbus. Make that 165 then they can have my attention and respect.

You're correct. Swa pilots did make the same pay as skyloser pilots make when swa started. The difference is that was 1971.

 

[737 Pylt]

I don't work for them yet, but your attitude frankly stinks.. so why should I care what you think?

Ok, let's try a different approach. FMS.....You've been cutting my lawn for the past 5 years making $100.00. You're happy, and are thinking its about time to up your price. But along comes a kid who knocks on my door and offers to do it for $50.00 because he got a great deal on his mower eqp and is just trying to break into the biz. I tell him that I will get back to him. Next time you show up, I tell you that I am cutting your pay in 1/2 and that I am only now willing to pay you $50.00 to do the grass or I will shop elsewhere for a gardner....You're gonna be pretty pissed at the kid willing to work for $50.00 in today's enviroment because you know it is going to be a loss for you to do it for less than what you're making. Do you think you'll have any respect/kind words for the dude that undercut you, and is now taking your business in the neighborhood. After all, in today's environment (airline/whatever) there is NO brand loyalty!

Your answers from above are wrong.. it's not the low cost carriers that caused it, they're success is a by product of it. Well before 9/11 the cutbacks and service reductions had begun.

Wrong, but keep reaching!

Post 9/11 it's been a disaster.. Sure the Legacies (some more than others) are not bad on the International flights in terms of service, but even then they're no match for Singapore, Emirates, and the like.. Face it, the Legacies need to remake themselves and evolve, or they'll go the way of the dinosaurs (only a it will be a slow death).

See my comment about brand loyalty above. Nobody cares what airline they're flying, its all about price!

Now if you can get me proof that Skybus is going to bring down your wages, I'd be happen to listen, but if you're just going to throw stones then I'm done here.

Go and re read my analogy about the guy cutting grass, and get back to me!

Remember, there was no Skybus when DALPA voted in their DEEP pay cuts.

You're right, but because SW/JB was flooding the market wth seats on the backs of the legacy carriers' cutbacks, their low pricing forced us into this predicament (sp) we find ourselves in today!
Keep adding to that by working for 1/2 what you're worth!

737