And somehow we drove Northwest Airlines into bankruptcy too. Lets see here, we compete with them on how many routes? Ah, ZERO!!! UAL went bankrupt with USAir immediately after 9/11. We were what, one year old then? Give me a break 737. The legacies went bankrupt to eliminate their pensions and renegotiate debt. That's the truth. All of them had plenty of cash available to continue to survive, but for USAir-- who hinged their survival on a merger with UAL that didn't happen with no backup plan in place...
They went bankrupt because of piss poor management, simply put. And by the way, they're all rich now at your expense!!! Because they did a great job getting y'all out of bankruptcy, trimming all the costs off your back with benefit and wage cuts-- good on them, bad on you for not fighting them with your "unions"
I read threads like these and try to stay out, but you guys JUST DON'T HAVE A CLUE. And I don't know what it is with the JetBlue guys in particular, but they seem to be particularly defensive about the perception of any damage they did to the industry in the early 00's. But damage they did do.
Guys, it wasn't JUST JetBlue that trashed wages, work rules and retirements for the legacies. It wasn't JUST Airtran that trashed wages, work rules and retirement for the legacies. It wasn't JUST Frontier that trashed wages, work rules and retirement for the legacies. It wasn't just Vanguard, Western Pacific, (insert failed LCC here)....... IT WAS ALL OF YOU PUT TOGETHER!!!! The LCC's of the late 90's and early 00's all MASSIVELY undercut the wages, work rules, and retirements of the legacies at the time and used that labor advantage to undercut our fares on just about every single route that we flew. Since labor at the time was EVERY legacy's highest cost, and airlines operate at very narrow margins in the first place, it is very easy for ANY airline, even today, to use discount airline pilot labor to undercut ANY established carrier and cause them to slowly bleed until they are no more. That's EXACTLY what these LCC's did to the legacies in the late 90's and early 00's when these LCC's reached critical mass.
They went bankrupt because of piss poor management? Are you kidding me? Piss poor management that couldn't compete with the JetBlue's of the world with their 100/hr., cabin cleaning Airbus Captains? The best management in the world can't get around a group of pilots willing to massively undercut the going pay rates to gain a competitive advantage. If Virgin uses its discount airline pilot labor to undercut your transcon routes, will it be piss poor management at JetBlue that causes JetBlue to bleed? Or perhaps another group of pilots that took a page right out of YOUR playbook that caused you to bleed?
And I'll tell you what, Blue. You guys have done NOTHING to help this industry. NOTHING. You guys haven't seen a pay rate that's "too low" for your standards. You guys pioneered $100/hr. Airbus Captains with your "horrible 100." You guys pioneered with your cabin cleaning pilots. You guys pioneered with your $80/hr. 100 seat 737/DC9 Captains. God help us and our widebody rates if you ever get anything bigger than an A320. And it doesn't end there. Those FAR's- too restrictive for your tastes. Let's wire up our pilots like test rats, not tell our passengers that we're conducting "test flights," and get the ball rolling on 8 hr.+++ duty days. What are you guys doing about issues like cabotage, that might get crammed down our throat and massively damage pilot wages in the future? NOTHING.
And the worst thing about JetBlue nowadays? The guys at Airtran, Frontier, SWA, "get it" now. They seem to finally understand the damage that a bunch of clueless pilots undercutting the going airline pilot wage and compensation package by 50% or more can do. They're actually trying to pick and hold wages up. Look no further than the Airtran guys and their tremendous efforts to raise narrowbody wages to higher levels.
And when airlines like Airtran, SWA, and the legacies DO get their wages up to more reasonable levels over the next few years, what can we expect from the JetBlue guys to raise the bar? Do you know what I expect? NOTHING. I expect the JetBlue guys to continue to use their cabin cleaning, discount airline pilot wages, along with the likes of Virgin, Skybus, and whatever new-and-improved LCC that comes along to massively undercut us all again. You pilot group doesn't have the cajones to do anything but that.
I keep hearing from you JetBlue guys how all us legacy guys "failed" by not standing up to our respective managements, yet what do we see from the JetBlue guys? Any cajones over there? Not that I've seen. You guys are the ones that don't have the "cajones" to stand up to your management. You haven't done it once in your entire existence. Why don't you show us hapless legacy guys how a group of JetBlue pilots get the job done instead of folding like blue lawn chairs with the issues from paragraph 3 above. Organize yourselves and get your narrowbody wages up to Airtran's + 1%. I won't hold my breath.
No need to respond. Just keep doing what you guys do best- undercutting and diverting blame. It's all "bad management." Oh yeah, don't forget it's ALPA's fault, too.
