Skybus Toast

[instructordude]

I wouldn't be suprised if GIA goes under too.

 

[Sedona16]

I wouldn't be suprised if GIA goes under too.

Ideally they would go under and you would get out of aviation as well. We can only dream.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Not really. Does anyone truly give honest answers to those questions, anyway? It's all BS. Kit Darby makes a fortune by telling people how to BS their way through interviews. Hey, I'm not arguing in favor of the 'stream, I'm just saying that throwing the pilots under the bus isn't a wise move. Thousands upon thousands of pilots have PFTed in the last two decades. Most of them are at majors now and are your union brothers. Some of them are union reps. Does it really make sense to attack them and alienate them for the rest of their careers for a mistake they made when they were newbies? That's up to you to decide.

Are you saying, the super scabs that actually took away someone's job while on strike should be completely forgiven. Even though ALPA officially forgave them at Continental, there should be some level of shame attached to such history. Gulfstream is not at the same degree as scabs, but on that pathway. Skybus was also. So yea, I think it is alright to attach some level of shame to certain career moves. Not complete alienation, but some level of shame. And in this information age, just pleading ignorance in recent times is quite questionable so a distinction can be made between now and the past. It's also far more respectable for someone to say attending Gulfstream was a complete mistake and I'd discourage future pilots from doing so than to try defend it's operation.

And back to interviewing, yea it's still humbling. Even with prep, you still have to answer to any past mistakes. If you don't feel humbled by the process, than you come across as arrogant. And I'd much rather fly with an average pilot with a great attitude than Chuck Yeager with an arrogant attitude.

 

[instructordude]

Ideally they would go under and you would get out of aviation as well. We can only dream.

I've considered it. As a relatively young person with a good attitude and work ethic I could find another field. Too bad you don't have those qualities, so I guess you're stuck; kept hostage by your narrow vision, poor attitude and lack of drive.:laugh::laugh: Get back to dreaming buddy.:laugh::laugh:

 

[Lear70]

Ideally, I would like to see every person who ever PFT'ed be required to go to every high school, vocational college, and accredited university (especially the ERAU, UND, MTSU colleges) and have to give a lecture on the pitfalls of PFT and why it's not required, as well as what they're getting themselves into.

I have friends who did GIA, even though I don't agree with it. That said, I would urge them to do the above, whether you call it "penance" or whatever, it can't do anything but HELP the profession to slow up the supply of pilots.

Open Skies 2 is the biggest current threat we face, followed closely by the MPL and foreign pilots taking our jobs, followed by the supply of young kids willing to pay for training or take $16k a year jobs at a regional.

THAT is where ALPA should be focusing their efforts. Control the supply and you control the pay. Doctors and Lawyers figured this out decades ago.

 

[PCL_128]

Are you saying, the super scabs that actually took away someone's job while on strike should be completely forgiven.

No, of course not. Anyone that took a job at an airline on strike knew exactly what they were doing. Kind of hard to misunderstand what's going on as you walk across the picket line. But to compare that to guys at GIA, newhire FOs at GoJet, JetU pilots, etc... is ridiculous. These guys are industry newbies. They don't have a clue how the industry works. I know I didn't. They're just looking for a way to get started in aviation. To label them as some sort of "scab" is counter-productive.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Gulfstream is not at the same degree as scabs, but on that pathway. Skybus was also.

However, what is really the deal here?

Is GIA and Skybus counter to what we stand for as free market capitalist in a ultra competitive hyperconsumption market place?

You might know my postion on Wal Mart....

As pilots we shame pilots for "whoring" at GIA and Skybus. We chide passengers for paying $99 Transcon fares...

but isn't that what our economy is all about? Because as pilots, we will quick look for the cheapest product and serivces in other industries but demand economic buffers and excemptions for ourselves!

Look, I am playing devils advocate here... and also stating that we as pilots can be hypocrites.

Discuss?

 

[Sedona16]

I've considered it. As a relatively young person with a good attitude and work ethic I could find another field. Too bad you don't have those qualities, so I guess you're stuck; kept hostage by your narrow vision, poor attitude and lack of drive.:laugh::laugh: Get back to dreaming buddy.:laugh::laugh:

I am exactly where I want to be. Your chances of getting here are slim. Do us a favor and leave. I think someone with your intellect and motivation might make "chief burger flipper" in under six months.

 

[chuckthepilot]

I think I found where all the management has been going after the shutdowns. :laugh: Sorry if this is old.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4wodh_jobmarket2009_fun

 

[instructordude]

Your chances of getting here are slim

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Wonder why I'm laughing?

 

[737 Pylt]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Wonder why I'm laughing?

Its easy to laugh along with people that are laughing AT YOU!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'd no sooner believe you were at Delta then I would that tanker clown is a pilot!

737

 

[curtis46]

Dude.... Did we go to the same school???? Pretty much sounds like my college education as well... I bet we had way more fun then UND/ERU grads and we ended up in the same spot as them... Not bashing them..... But COMON guys..... ITS COLLEGE.. Did none of you see Animal House.. Graduate with a 3.0, drink as much cheap beer as you can, and chase *&SSY.... Best time of my life....

Best time of my life as well;party like there was no tomorrow,red the books once in a while,enough to graduate in accounting but totally obsolete.would need to go back to college and start almost from scratch.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

However, what is really the deal here?

Is GIA and Skybus counter to what we stand for as free market capitalist in a ultra competitive hyperconsumption market place?

You might know my postion on Wal Mart....

As pilots we shame pilots for "whoring" at GIA and Skybus. We chide passengers for paying $99 Transcon fares...

but isn't that what our economy is all about? Because as pilots, we will quick look for the cheapest product and serivces in other industries but demand economic buffers and excemptions for ourselves!

Look, I am playing devils advocate here... and also stating that we as pilots can be hypocrites.

Discuss?

To say most pilots are hypocritical is to try and treat this issue as black and white. There are degrees of unethical behavior. Becoming a scab is the worst degree. PFT when it is all but obsolete and at 30 grand to boot in order to avoid an interview is also far from ethical. By the way, working at GoJets is definitely as close to becoming a scab as one can get. Unless you grew up Amish, ignorance in this electronic age is fairly inexcusable. All it takes is a cellphone call or an internet search to research the popular view among the pilot community of carriers such as Skybus, Gojets, Mesa and Gulfstream. If I switched careers, it wouldn't be hard to figure out what's looked down upon in that profession.

 

[PCL_128]

Most newbie pilots don't know about flightinfo, Jetcareers, and other pilot sites on the internet. They do their research by visiting the many websites of the aviation schools and comparing them to each other. From the view of a consumer, that makes perfect sense. When they see that some schools offer a guaranteed job at the end of training, they view that to be a better "value." They aren't thinking of it in the same terms that you and I are, because they are new to the industry. You have to try to put your mind in the mindset of a complete newbie that knows nothing about this industry. From their perspective, your assertion that they should "know better" is absurd, even in this internet age.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

To say most pilots are hypocritical is to try and treat this issue as black and white. There are degrees of unethical behavior.

But who decides what is ethical? the Moniker Messageboards?

Becoming a scab is the worst degree.

There is a solid, "black and white" line.

PFT when it is all but obsolete and at 30 grand to boot in order to avoid an interview is also far from ethical. By the way, working at GoJets is definitely as close to becoming a scab as one can get. Unless you grew up Amish, ignorance in this electronic age is fairly inexcusable.

But it is also the American Way!

All it takes is a cellphone call or an internet search to research the popular view among the pilot community of carriers such as Skybus, Gojets, Mesa and Gulfstream. If I switched careers, it wouldn't be hard to figure out what's looked down upon in that profession.

Yet, we are not talking about switching careers. We are talking about niave, excited young kids...

So really.... whats the solution? More moniker messageboard hatin?

If GIA is such a cancer then how do we stop it?


If anyone knows about this issue it is PCL. He's learned from his mistake and is willing to work the issue. Chiding him is wrong... he's a great way to educate the newbies. Lucky for you guys he is smart enough to stay issue orientated and not pack up his marbles because a few emotional GIA haters treat him poorly. That says more about them than him...

 

[Hamburger]

From their perspective, your assertion that they should "know better" is absurd, even in this internet age.

But they should damn sure know better than to get all self-righteous about the paychecks of guys that didn't pay for their training. Skybus lowered the bar, but your PFT gig hit everyone else in the face with the bar.

You have zero credibility.

Trying to pass yourself off as the authority on how pilots should behave is embarassing. You are just one step above the lowest of bottom feeders.

 

[PCL_128]

Yes, keep worrying about the tiny 1900 operator in Florida with 200 pilots, meanwhile real problems are actually threatening your profession. Glad your eye is on the ball.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

But they should damn sure know better than to get all self-righteous about the paychecks of guys that didn't pay for their training. Skybus lowered the bar, but your PFT gig hit everyone else in the face with the bar.

You have zero credibility.

Trying to pass yourself off as the authority on how pilots should behave is embarassing. You are just one step above the lowest of bottom feeders.

Why you hatin'?

 

[Fly2Scuba]

But who decides what is ethical? the Moniker Messageboards?





There is a solid, "black and white" line.




But it is also the American Way!





Yet, we are not talking about switching careers. We are talking about niave, excited young kids...

So really.... whats the solution? More moniker messageboard hatin?

I think the general pilot community considers what's ethical and to what degree and clearly Skybus and Gulfstream are shamed more than average. Not just on the message boards, but hanger/crew room talk. To say it's the American way to further your way at any expense or at the expense of others is poor citizenship. I certainly wouldn't call Jonathon Orstein an all-American business man. There are plenty of respectable success stories of making it without trampling over others to such unethical degrees.

 

[PCL_128]

I think the general pilot community considers what's ethical and to what degree and clearly Skybus and Gulfstream are shamed more than average.

Most pilots don't even know who GIA is. When I tell Captains I fly with that I worked there, the typical response is "who's that?"