Skybus Toast

[737 Pylt]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Wonder why I'm laughing?

Its easy to laugh along with people that are laughing AT YOU!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'd no sooner believe you were at Delta then I would that tanker clown is a pilot!

737

 

[curtis46]

Dude.... Did we go to the same school???? Pretty much sounds like my college education as well... I bet we had way more fun then UND/ERU grads and we ended up in the same spot as them... Not bashing them..... But COMON guys..... ITS COLLEGE.. Did none of you see Animal House.. Graduate with a 3.0, drink as much cheap beer as you can, and chase *&SSY.... Best time of my life....

Best time of my life as well;party like there was no tomorrow,red the books once in a while,enough to graduate in accounting but totally obsolete.would need to go back to college and start almost from scratch.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

However, what is really the deal here?

Is GIA and Skybus counter to what we stand for as free market capitalist in a ultra competitive hyperconsumption market place?

You might know my postion on Wal Mart....

As pilots we shame pilots for "whoring" at GIA and Skybus. We chide passengers for paying $99 Transcon fares...

but isn't that what our economy is all about? Because as pilots, we will quick look for the cheapest product and serivces in other industries but demand economic buffers and excemptions for ourselves!

Look, I am playing devils advocate here... and also stating that we as pilots can be hypocrites.

Discuss?

To say most pilots are hypocritical is to try and treat this issue as black and white. There are degrees of unethical behavior. Becoming a scab is the worst degree. PFT when it is all but obsolete and at 30 grand to boot in order to avoid an interview is also far from ethical. By the way, working at GoJets is definitely as close to becoming a scab as one can get. Unless you grew up Amish, ignorance in this electronic age is fairly inexcusable. All it takes is a cellphone call or an internet search to research the popular view among the pilot community of carriers such as Skybus, Gojets, Mesa and Gulfstream. If I switched careers, it wouldn't be hard to figure out what's looked down upon in that profession.

 

[PCL_128]

Most newbie pilots don't know about flightinfo, Jetcareers, and other pilot sites on the internet. They do their research by visiting the many websites of the aviation schools and comparing them to each other. From the view of a consumer, that makes perfect sense. When they see that some schools offer a guaranteed job at the end of training, they view that to be a better "value." They aren't thinking of it in the same terms that you and I are, because they are new to the industry. You have to try to put your mind in the mindset of a complete newbie that knows nothing about this industry. From their perspective, your assertion that they should "know better" is absurd, even in this internet age.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

To say most pilots are hypocritical is to try and treat this issue as black and white. There are degrees of unethical behavior.

But who decides what is ethical? the Moniker Messageboards?

Becoming a scab is the worst degree.

There is a solid, "black and white" line.

PFT when it is all but obsolete and at 30 grand to boot in order to avoid an interview is also far from ethical. By the way, working at GoJets is definitely as close to becoming a scab as one can get. Unless you grew up Amish, ignorance in this electronic age is fairly inexcusable.

But it is also the American Way!

All it takes is a cellphone call or an internet search to research the popular view among the pilot community of carriers such as Skybus, Gojets, Mesa and Gulfstream. If I switched careers, it wouldn't be hard to figure out what's looked down upon in that profession.

Yet, we are not talking about switching careers. We are talking about niave, excited young kids...

So really.... whats the solution? More moniker messageboard hatin?

If GIA is such a cancer then how do we stop it?


If anyone knows about this issue it is PCL. He's learned from his mistake and is willing to work the issue. Chiding him is wrong... he's a great way to educate the newbies. Lucky for you guys he is smart enough to stay issue orientated and not pack up his marbles because a few emotional GIA haters treat him poorly. That says more about them than him...

 

[Hamburger]

From their perspective, your assertion that they should "know better" is absurd, even in this internet age.

But they should damn sure know better than to get all self-righteous about the paychecks of guys that didn't pay for their training. Skybus lowered the bar, but your PFT gig hit everyone else in the face with the bar.

You have zero credibility.

Trying to pass yourself off as the authority on how pilots should behave is embarassing. You are just one step above the lowest of bottom feeders.

 

[PCL_128]

Yes, keep worrying about the tiny 1900 operator in Florida with 200 pilots, meanwhile real problems are actually threatening your profession. Glad your eye is on the ball.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

But they should damn sure know better than to get all self-righteous about the paychecks of guys that didn't pay for their training. Skybus lowered the bar, but your PFT gig hit everyone else in the face with the bar.

You have zero credibility.

Trying to pass yourself off as the authority on how pilots should behave is embarassing. You are just one step above the lowest of bottom feeders.

Why you hatin'?

 

[Fly2Scuba]

But who decides what is ethical? the Moniker Messageboards?





There is a solid, "black and white" line.




But it is also the American Way!





Yet, we are not talking about switching careers. We are talking about niave, excited young kids...

So really.... whats the solution? More moniker messageboard hatin?

I think the general pilot community considers what's ethical and to what degree and clearly Skybus and Gulfstream are shamed more than average. Not just on the message boards, but hanger/crew room talk. To say it's the American way to further your way at any expense or at the expense of others is poor citizenship. I certainly wouldn't call Jonathon Orstein an all-American business man. There are plenty of respectable success stories of making it without trampling over others to such unethical degrees.

 

[PCL_128]

I think the general pilot community considers what's ethical and to what degree and clearly Skybus and Gulfstream are shamed more than average.

Most pilots don't even know who GIA is. When I tell Captains I fly with that I worked there, the typical response is "who's that?"

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Yes, keep worrying about the tiny 1900 operator in Florida with 200 pilots, meanwhile real problems are actually threatening your profession. Glad your eye is on the ball.

And perhaps one of the reasons they've stayed so small is because they realize the amount of shame attached to their operation makes it infeasible to grow any larger because the supply of pilots willing to work there is quite low. Did you ever consider that?

 

[PCL_128]

And perhaps one of the reasons they've stayed so small is because they realize the amount of shame attached to their operation makes it infeasible to grow any larger because the supply of pilots willing to work there is quite low. Did you ever consider that?

No, because it's not true. Cooper never wanted to expand outside of Florida and the Bahamas. Several code-share partners asked him repeatedly to serve destinations in some other southern states, but he turned them down over and over again. He just wanted a small airline and training center, nothing more.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I think the general pilot community considers what's ethical and to what degree and clearly Skybus and Gulfstream are shamed more than average. Not just on the message boards, but hanger/crew room talk.

I never heard it in my crewrooms. In fact that would be counter productive to slam a fellow pilot for going to GIA then realize you had to fly with him/her. Or expect them to walk the line with you. Or not turn you in to management...

You can't shame a fellow pilot and exect them to share your values...

To say it's the American way to further your way at any expense or at the expense of others is poor citizenship.

C'mon.. we champion the law of the jungle. Whoever is better faster stronger cheaper is the one that rules. L'et not have two sets of rules here..

I certainly wouldn't call Jonathon Orstein an all-American business man.

From who's perspective. You (and I) don't like him for how he treats us... but the american consumer likes him. Wall Street likes him. The legacy execs like him...

There are plenty of respectable success stories of making it without trampling over others to such unethical degrees.

Agreed. but they might be the exception.

Look you are trying to apply ethical treatment to something only you value. Not the rest of our economy.

I asked you before... how do we stop the GIA factor?

 

[Fly2Scuba]

I never heard it in my crewrooms. In fact that would be counter productive to slam a fellow pilot for going to GIA then realize you had to fly with him/her.



C'mon.. we champion the law of the jungle. Whoever is better faster stronger cheaper is the one that rules. L'et not have two sets of rules here..




From who's perspective. You (and I) don't like him for how he treats us... but the american consumer likes him. Wall Street likes him. The legacy execs like him...




Agreed. but they might be the exception.

Look you are trying to apply ethical treatment to something only you value. Not the rest of our economy.

I asked you before... how do we stop the GIA factor?

I'd agree you can't completely stop it. But discouraging it in the future is in all our best interests. Even if Gulfstream remains small, it opens the door for another carrier to try such operation. I think you might feel differently if someone started up a 717 operation involving pay for training. Hopefully the Skybus situation discourages others from making similar moves in the future.

Respect if you discourage others from attending Gulfstream in the future.

 

[Andy]

Control the supply and you control the pay. Doctors and Lawyers figured this out decades ago.

Control supply? You mean like having a mandatory retirement age that correlates to diminishing physical and cognitive skills? Great idea.
Now, where do we draw that line? 55, the point at which accident rates show an increase? No, pilots can still fly several more years before their abilities decline to the point where the accident rate climbs substantially. 60 looks like a good number.

But wait. You FAVORED a change to age 65 since your father, (Edited to leave out Lear's family details - I'll let HIM tell everyone why he favored 65).

Yeah, that was a good idea that you had; control the supply. That horse already left the stable. And now you wish to have barriers to entry into the business?
Great. Whatever suits your individual situation.