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Scab Stories

Some Dude

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What's your best "I had to fly with a scab" story? We have a few at my employer. They have a thousand excuses for their actions (none are good).
 
B

buttercup

Some Dude said:
What's your best "I had to fly with a scab" story? We have a few at my employer. They have a thousand excuses for their actions (none are good).

Ive never knowingly flown with a, scab!! When I was an FO at Comair though, a guy came up to the cockpit looking for a jumpseat..This was about a month before we went on strike.. He introduced himself to the Captain and myself.. THe Captain looked at the guys ID, checked his scab list and then presto the guy was on it.. The Captain said " Get off my plane you greedy scab bastard".. The scab then got all emotional and threatened to tell his company (Continental)!! It's sad that a scab like that could hold a high seniority number in one of the better Major airlines out there!
 

billjohnson321

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i flew with a few scabs at my old airline.the ones that i flew with were actually excellent pilots and great guys.still talk to a few of them.i was not there when the situations happened so i try to restrain judgement.sorry i don't have any of those "get the hel off my airplane stories." i've always thought they were real impressive.
 

aeronautic1

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Comair pilots with scab lists... geez!!



as214 said:
Ive never knowingly flown with a, scab!! When I was an FO at Comair though, a guy came up to the cockpit looking for a jumpseat..This was about a month before we went on strike.. He introduced himself to the Captain and myself.. THe Captain looked at the guys ID, checked his scab list and then presto the guy was on it.. The Captain said " Get off my plane you greedy scab bastard".. The scab then got all emotional and threatened to tell his company (Continental)!! It's sad that a scab like that could hold a high seniority number in one of the better Major airlines out there!
 

OleGuy

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With ALPA's track record there is no longer a long term career problem with being a scab. Like it or not...It's the truth. Look at all the money we spent on Continential and strike assessments, and then look at all the money we spent to get them BACK after they were successfull. ALPA is interested in just one thing...dues. How many Eastern scabs are employed today at major airlines...lots.
 

aeronautic1

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Dues

Now that's the smartest thing that I have yet. ALPA's only exsistance is based on the dues paid for in part by company payroll. Small carrier, small dues, little representation, if they will represent you at all.

OleGuy said:
With ALPA's track record there is no longer a long term career problem with being a scab. Like it or not...It's the truth. Look at all the money we spent on Continential and strike assessments, and then look at all the money we spent to get them BACK after they were successfull. ALPA is interested in just one thing...dues. How many Eastern scabs are employed today at major airlines...lots.
 

SDCFI

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Seems to me scabbing and PFT are pretty similar in that everyone talks about "blacklists" and how it'll hurt your career, yada...yada...yada, no one will like you, etc. But in the end these people still get the jobs so where's the deterrent not to do it? A denied j/s may send a message, but in the end isn't much more than a slight inconvenience for most.
 

flybrowntails

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i get it--this is a thread about "i knew this guy/gal who was a scab but he was a great pilot, great person, community leader an overall a-okay joe."

okay- i knew this guy at a former company he was a scab. he was a horrible pilot, he was a mildly functioning major alcoholic and those that knew him are worse off for having ever met this turd.

the only thing good i can say about this guy is he provided me with some great stories for interviews.

wish i had other stories to share.

fbt
 

rumpletumbler

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flybrowntails said:
i get it--this is a thread about "i knew this guy/gal who was a scab but he was a great pilot, great person, community leader an overall a-okay joe."
lol...nahhh I think the op intended it to be a bash the hell out of scabs thread. However, the worst folks I've met aren't scabs but horrible instructors. I grow a touch weary of people hating people because they want to work. Hating someone because they are a true bug on the windshield of life I'm all for however.
 

Yank McCobb

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What this thread truly is about is that you can take a cross-section of society...any part of it, including aviation and even that part of aviation known as "scabs"...and find the same results. Good people, bad people, competent people, incompetent people, those with drug and alcohol problems, those without, etc. And you can also find people willing to hurl stones at any part of it and blame all of their problems on someone else.
 

Flyingdutchman

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No sure about continental folks (way before my time). But I wont take any *************************s pilots on my js. bite me.

FD
 

Flyingdutchman

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******** = g 0 j e t s
 

Tram

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OleGuy said:
How many Eastern scabs are employed today at major airlines...lots.
They may be employed, but man, how fun would it be to go to work and be known as a worthless sack of trash?

I know several guys who are Eastern scabs - they don't have alot of friends in the "industry." They may be the hometown local hero to people who don't know the difference between a scab and not, but everyone you work with still knows..

I won't ever go out of my way to help a scab..

I think it's funny.. they all have "real" good excuses..

The local eastern scab, "had a family, he was trying to put his kids through private school, had a car payment" yadda yadda yadda..

My dad - had a family, was tryinig to put his kids through private school, etc.. My dad didn't cross the line..

I was a young kid when Eastern happened, but I have learned alot from the people who were involved..

Scabs are worthless....
 

h25b

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.....
Yank McCobb said:
What this thread truly is about is that you can take a cross-section of society...any part of it, including aviation and even that part of aviation known as "scabs"...and find the same results. Good people, bad people, competent people, incompetent people, those with drug and alcohol problems, those without, etc. And you can also find people willing to hurl stones at any part of it and blame all of their problems on someone else.
I think I know what this thread is all about... Some Dude I believe is a NetJets pilot that is constantly verbally thumping his chest with all of the pro-union, we're ready to strike verbage. SCAB's are what they are, people who had priorities different from the mainstream at the time and for whatever reason felt like a paycheck was too important to them not go marching around in circles. How people decide to treat them after the fact is their own business. I think history has proven that it really has little impact on their overall aviation career if in fact they are good pilots.

Tram said:
My dad - had a family, was tryinig to put his kids through private school, etc.. My dad didn't cross the line..

I was a young kid when Eastern happened, but I have learned alot from the people who were involved..

Scabs are worthless....
With all due respect (and yes, I do respect the sacrifice your father made), Eastern is longer here today and the industry is still in shambles...
 
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FoxHunter

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Tram said:
The local eastern scab, "had a family, he was trying to put his kids through private school, had a car payment" yadda yadda yadda..

My dad - had a family, was tryinig to put his kids through private school, etc.. My dad didn't cross the line..

I was a young kid when Eastern happened, but I have learned alot from the people who were involved..

Scabs are worthless....
In the early 60s EAL had another strike. The FEIA represented PFEs at the time ALPA claimed that all jet aircraft should have three pilots, for safety. Reality was that it was a jobs issue. FEIA went out on strike and ALPA broke the strike. The EAL CEO, Captain Eddie, issued an ultimatum, come back to work or you will never return. The PFEs that crossed the FEIA picket line were put on the pilot seniority list and had their pilot training paid for by the company, and most retired as EAL Captains. The FEs that honored the strike were locked out. Some of the lucky FEs were hired by Seaboard World Airlines, later bought by Tigers, bought by FedEx. Most of the others bounced around the nonskeds such as Universal, Saturn, TIA, Capitol and others. The last former striker EAL FE retired as a DC10 S/O at FedEx around 5 years ago.

Were the FEs that crossed the FEIA picket line Scabs? Were the EAL pilots that crossed the FEIA picket line Scabs? Were the pilots hired to replace the PFEs Scabs? Where does your dad fit into this?
 

Boeingman

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Tram said:
My dad didn't cross the line..
How did Dad feel watching his loyal ALPA brethren at Delta trip over themselves to pick up additional flying in ATL when Eastern was on strike? Or maybe he was LGA or BOS based and he enjoyed watching the loyal ALPA USAir pilots grabbing an additional windfall of flying?

I know how I felt watching the Eastern guys racing across our lines in IAH picking up our loss of revenue when Eastern had a crew base there. Was your father one of those loyal ALPA members picking up our lost flying back then?

Speaking of dear old Dad...was he one of the Eastern guys instrumental in keeping the Braniff pilots off the EAL seniority list when Eastern aquired all those South AMerican Braniff routes? Funny how that came full circle to bite many of us at CAL as almost all the original scabs in early 83 were disgruntled ex-ALPA Braniff pilots.

Tram said:
I was a young kid when Eastern happened, but I have learned alot from the people who were involved..
You sound like you still have a lot to learn.

Tram said:
Scabs are worthless....
As is ALPA and the facade of a brotherhood within the ranks. Hold your comments kid. I spent 25 months on a picket line.
 
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GVFlyer

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Scab or not a scab - over time I don't see where it makes much difference. Continental seems to be doing pretty well, but there was a time when it was viewed as a scab airline. I can remember when guys leaving my service to go to CAL were admonished, "it'll be the last airline you ever work for."

When Charlie Bryant killed Eastern Airlines over a IAM salary that was in the middle of the legacy mechanic pay scales, the pilots formed two airlines: Kiwi and Valujet. The union guys put up $50,000 and went to work for Kiwi; the scabs went to Valuejet. Kiwi is no longer around, Valuejet is AirTran.

I'm having a hard time seeing the value of unions in aviation. We have three former TWA flight attendants on staff, they tell me that 100% of the TWA flight attendants are gone from American and I know pilots with 17 years at TWA who are on the street because they weren't quite senior enough to be merged and subsequently were stapled to the bottom of the American seniority list.

The unions seem to be unable to preserve pay, benefits and pensions at places like United and US Air. We hired a furloughed US Air pilot; he says it looks like the most senior pilot there is going to make about $125k and get about $28K a year from his pension as opposed to the $98K he was promised.

I researched pre-deregulation pay scales - back when there was a Civil Aeronautics board. In 1978, the most senior captains at PanAm were making $175,000 dollars and were working about 14 days a month. That would be over $900k in today's dollars and everyone knows what today's duty rigs are like. So, there has been a constant erosion of pay, benefits and quality of life at the airlines.

I don't know what the answer is - anymore than I know what career recommendations to make to a young aviator other than that the best flying in the world happens in the military, this is just an observation.


GV
 

ultrarunner

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GVFlyer said:
I researched pre-deregulation pay scales - back when there was a Civil Aeronautics board. In 1978, the most senior captains at PanAm were making $175,000 dollars and were working about 14 days a month. That would be over $900k in today's dollars and everyone knows what today's duty rigs are like. So, there has been a constant erosion of pay, benefits and quality of life at the airlines.

There is a continuous eroding of union membership nationwide. It's very easy for ALPA pilot groups to hold management hostage when times are good, i.e, pay scales at DAL and UAL before things went down hill.

But when the chips are down, I agree with GV, ALPA has show that it has very little power to retain jobs and QOL among it's ranks.

However, I don't belive internal ALPA management salaries have suffered at all, have they?

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
 

TR4A

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Boeingman said:
Speaking of dear old Dad...was he one of the Eastern guys instrumental in keeping the Braniff pilots off the EAL seniority list when Eastern acquired all those South American Braniff routes? Funny how that came full circle to bite many of us at CAL as almost all the original scabs in early 83 were disgruntled ex-ALPA Braniff pilots.
The South American (SA) routes were originally Grace Airways which was bought by Pan Am. Pan Am rename it PANAGRA (Pan American Grace Airways). Pan Am was force to sell PANAGRA because the US government said PA had a monopoly on SA. PA sold them to Braniff.

In 1982 when Braniff failed they sold them to Eastern. The Braniff pilots said that the pilots should go with the routes. Eastern guys told them no. The didn't even want them on the bottom of their seniority list.

When Eastern failed they sold them to American. Eastern pilots said the pilots should go with the routes. They were told: REMEMBER BRANIFF!
 

Tram

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Wow Boeingman, did I hit a nerve? :)

Boeingman said:
How did Dad feel watching his loyal ALPA brethren at Delta trip over themselves to pick up additional flying in ATL when Eastern was on strike?
Good question, I'll find out for you.. :)

Boeingman said:
I know how I felt watching the Eastern guys racing across our lines in IAH picking up our loss of revenue when Eastern had a crew base there. Was your father one of those loyal ALPA members picking up our lost flying back then?
If they were pilots out of IAH picking up the routes - nope, sorry dear old Dad wasn't one of them..

Boeingman said:
Speaking of dear old Dad...was he one of the Eastern guys instrumental in keeping the Braniff pilots off the EAL seniority list when Eastern aquired all those South AMerican Braniff routes?
Speaking of dear old Dad, it's funny - the way you treat me, is the exact reaction that is typically evoked from him - when scabs are mentioned, again, you sound like a scab.. Why else would you have an issue with my stand on scabs?

As far as the Braniff pilots on the seniority list - didn't do any SA flying with Eastern, so I wouldn't see why he kept any Braniff pilots off the SA routes senority lists..


Boeingman said:
You sound like you still have a lot to learn.
You are correct, I have LOTS to learn.. Juding from your comments, it sounds to me as if you were once a scab and I just learned a little more about you and your type. I mean, if not a scab - but defending them - I dunno what is worse.


Boeingman said:
I spent 25 months on a picket line.
Yeh, my dad spent about the same amount of time from the time of the strike until Eastern was belly up.. You spent 25 months on the picket line and feel the need to berate me for having an opinion on the worth of scabs? Something doesn't mesh..

I really don't know what your trying to get at.. Some of your points, sound like you would be against the whole idea of a scab, yet you feel the need to speak down to me on my opinion of them?

Oh, how about the senority list at the airline your at? I guess if your sitting left seat in a 76' and you guys aquired some airline - you would be first in line to make sure that other airlines guys who were senior to you were put in the proper place with your airline? Why, i'm sure you'd even downgrade in both equipment and seats to make sure that happened, wouldn't you?
 
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