Republic Airways posts first quarter loss

[likeitis]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't those 717's scheduled to go away long before Rah even came into the picture?

nope.

 

[BORG]

The 717s were scheduled to go away and be replaced by E190s if only Midwest pilots would accept massive paycuts. While we Midwest pilots were trying to hold up our mainline payscale, RAH pilots came in and cut our legs out from under us. I believe the term is used too often and too carelessly, but while they don't meet the strict definition of scabs, the end result was exactly the same...

 

[BORG]

As likeitis indicated, RAH was already doing a good deal of our flying when the 717 replacement plans were made. Many of our pilots were already on the street and we were promised all these new growth airplanes if only we'd take paycuts.

 

[Anonymous2]

I'm finding it hard to follow what you're trying to say, but since you seem to be late to the party, here are the facts:

1. Midwest's MD80s were taken out of service when the fuel prices spiked in 2008-2009.
2. Midwest's B717s were configured for 99 passengers.
3. Midwest's management demanded massive paycuts (to Republic's payrates).
4. The Midwest pilots said "He!! no."
5. Republic pilots said "We'll fly 99 seat airplanes (E190s) for the rates Midwest management has proposed."
6. Midwest management said, "Sweet, that's alot easier than negotiating with our own pilots!"
7. The Republic pilots all hold hands and say "It's not our fault, really, it's not. Please ignore the fact that we completely destroyed any chance for Midwest pilots to negotiate a reasonable payscale that is in line with industry standard (and keep their jobs) and that we have collectively lowered the bar for the entire industry." and "Don't blame us, blame management." and "We need to put food on our table." and countless other similar stupid statements.
8. All 400 Midwest pilots were laid off.
9. Midwest pilots are rightfully p!ssed off, as every narrowbody pilot in the industry should be.

The simple fact is that if Republic hadn't had such ridiculously low 99-seat payrates, neither company would be in this situation.

These reasons given were very interesting. Can anyone at all try to guess if Midwest would've still been around today without republic dipping their dirty hands in yx business?
Would the pilots saying no to pay cuts have made it the end for yx? Pilots seem to have a lot of control, and no control of an airline, at the same time.

 

[BORG]

Midwest wouldn't be any more gone than it currently is - and the pilots couldn't be anymore unemployed - so I can't identify a single benefit of this fiasco for any Midwest pilots.

Upon further review, I guess we can all get recalled to jerk gear for crappy regional wages in a mainline airplane for the morons that took our jobs. YIPPEEE!!!

 

[CitationLover]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't those 717's scheduled to go away long before Rah even came into the picture?

No. 400 pilots would bet you the 80's are the same answer to.

 

[CitationLover]

These reasons given were very interesting. Can anyone at all try to guess if Midwest would've still been around today without republic dipping their dirty hands in yx business?
Would the pilots saying no to pay cuts have made it the end for yx? Pilots seem to have a lot of control, and no control of an airline, at the same time.

They lasted 25 years and I suspect they would've lasted here also. TH wanted an out, held out for the most money, and made out well for himself. His legacy was tarnished, but he couldn't care less. TPG dismantled the airline from the get go and hindsight being 20/20 a lot could have changed.

400 mainline pay scale jobs down the toilet with Frontier soon to follow as those Airbii will be replaced with cheaper 130 seat Canadairs.

 

[Bluestreak]

The 717s were scheduled to go away and be replaced by E190s if only Midwest pilots would accept massive paycuts. While we Midwest pilots were trying to hold up our mainline payscale, RAH pilots came in and cut our legs out from under us. I believe the term is used too often and too carelessly, but while they don't meet the strict definition of scabs, the end result was exactly the same...

Wooo eeee ! Looka here,boys ! A gen-u-wine Internet Tough Guy ! I'll bet you don't have the stones to say that scab comment to anybodys face.You didn't even have the guts to shut down your own airline,you just rolled over and took it .So what do you do? Get on the internet and whine about it.And you expected RAH pilots to do what,exactly ? Not show up for work ? Refuse the trips ? You didn't even do THAT ! You worked until the last day,like TH and BB wanted.So take your woe-is-me crap somewhere else and maybe somebody will give a crap.

 

[BORG]

Wooo eeee ! Looka here,boys ! A gen-u-wine Internet Tough Guy ! I'll bet you don't have the stones to say that scab comment to anybodys face.You didn't even have the guts to shut down your own airline,you just rolled over and took it .So what do you do? Get on the internet and whine about it.And you expected RAH pilots to do what,exactly ? Not show up for work ? Refuse the trips ? You didn't even do THAT ! You worked until the last day,like TH and BB wanted.So take your woe-is-me crap somewhere else and maybe somebody will give a crap.

I have said the same thing to Republic pilots' faces and will continue to because the facts are on my side. I would be glad to say the same thing to your face if you'd like to have a beer (I'll even buy) and a civil discussion - just PM me next time you'll be flying your E190 into MCI and I'll be glad to meet you there.

For your thoughtful consideration - why do unions hate scabs? Because workers crossing a picket line take away the union's negotiating power. What effect did Republic have on Midwest Airlines? You took away our negotiating power (before the buyout). Do you see any similarities?

FYI - I wasn't there at the end, in fact I was furloughed pretty early-on, so I had nothing to do with the end-game at Midwest. However, I know that the until the buyout, the union was still doing everything in their power to negotiate E190 rates that would allow them to go onto our certificate as originally planned. There was no incentive for Midwest management to negotiate with us because they always had you as a backup plan. We can disagree about everyhing else, but YOU HAVE TO AT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU DESTROYED ANY CHANCE FOR US TO NEGOTIATE A REASONABLE CONTRACT!

 

[BORG]

Wooo eeee ! Looka here,boys ! A gen-u-wine Internet Tough Guy ! I'll bet you don't have the stones to say that scab comment to anybodys face.You didn't even have the guts to shut down your own airline,you just rolled over and took it .So what do you do? Get on the internet and whine about it.And you expected RAH pilots to do what,exactly ? Not show up for work ? Refuse the trips ? You didn't even do THAT ! You worked until the last day,like TH and BB wanted.So take your woe-is-me crap somewhere else and maybe somebody will give a crap.

Upon re-reading my post and yours, I find it hard to believe YOU are calling ME an "Internet Tough Guy". Explain to me where, in the post you quoted, I say anything inflammatory, derogatory or untrue.

 

[Grey Ghost]

I forget, but why didn't they take the airtran offer again???

 

[Wesb737fo]

Upon re-reading my post and yours, I find it hard to believe YOU are calling ME an "Internet Tough Guy". Explain to me where, in the post you quoted, I say anything inflammatory, derogatory or untrue.

He sounds like a guy who wants to be an airbus Captain.

 

[Bluestreak]

Upon re-reading my post and yours, I find it hard to believe YOU are calling ME an "Internet Tough Guy". Explain to me where, in the post you quoted, I say anything inflammatory, derogatory or untrue.

Ok,since you obviously don't excell in reading comprehension:

" While we Midwest pilots were trying to hold up our mainline payscale, RAH pilots came in and cut our legs out from under us."

Our fault ? Nope.Derogatory ? You bet.

"I believe the term is used too often and too carelessly, but while they don't meet the strict definition of scabs, the end result was exactly the same..."

Did you declare ANY flying "struck work " ? Then that is "untrue".Did you imply RAH pilots are scabs ? Yep.Derogatory,inflammatory AND untrue.See now ? Have you ever heard of The Railway Labor Act ? You should study it,then report back what you would have done.I'm waiting....

 

[BORG]

"Ok,since you obviously don't excell in reading comprehension" Actually, I scored exceptionally well on the LSAT in reading comprehension, how about you?

"RAH pilots came in and cut our legs out from under us." This is an absolutely true statement. If you take offense to it, I think that says something about YOU (perhaps that you agree that it was a sh!tty thing to do?...)

"I believe the term is used too often and too carelessly, but while they don't meet the strict definition of scabs, the end result was exactly the same..." Who lacks reading comprehension skills?! I said explicitly that it "DOESN'T MEET THE STRICT DEFINITION" of being a scab. However, I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge that IT HAD THE EXACT SAME EFFECT ON OUR NEGOTIATING POSITION. Until you do, you have no credibility as being a reasonable and logical person.

 

[jravi8tor]

I forget, but why didn't they take the airtran offer again???

The Board of Directors of Midwest Air Group did what they were suppose to do, and that was choose the deal that better serves their share holders. $16.99 all cash deal from TPG/NWA or a cash/stock deal from AAI. All cash speaks louder than a stock /cash option.

 

[jravi8tor]

Good point Citation, you always were the smart one in class...

Would that make me the class clown of our bunch?

 

[BORG]

Would that make me the class clown of our bunch?

Correct. And that would make me the business jet pilot with questionable qualifications...

 

[jravi8tor]

Correct. And that would make me the business jet pilot with questionable qualifications...

I love it!!!!

 

[CitationLover]

Would that make me the class clown of our bunch?

I just remember sitting waiting for those f'in mechanics to finish bringing the 717 down so we could slide down at 2am! WTF!

 

[CitationLover]

Wooo eeee ! Looka here,boys ! A gen-u-wine Internet Tough Guy ! I'll bet you don't have the stones to say that scab comment to anybodys face.You didn't even have the guts to shut down your own airline,you just rolled over and took it .So what do you do? Get on the internet and whine about it.And you expected RAH pilots to do what,exactly ? Not show up for work ? Refuse the trips ? You didn't even do THAT ! You worked until the last day,like TH and BB wanted.So take your woe-is-me crap somewhere else and maybe somebody will give a crap.

I pray as part of the integration some Midwest CA's get in as CA's and you have to fly with CA Savall. I pray, pray, pray to Bedford's Jesus for this to happen. Study those systems boys!

 

[Bluestreak]

I pray as part of the integration some Midwest CA's get in as CA's and you have to fly with CA Savall. I pray, pray, pray to Bedford's Jesus for this to happen. Study those systems boys!

As a Captain with over 10 years seniority-pray on.I also pray you'll be snatching my gear.That would be suh-weeet !Here's to a nice staple job ! At least for you,anyway.

 

[BORG]

As a Captain with over 10 years seniority-pray on.I also pray you'll be snatching my gear.That would be suh-weeet !Here's to a nice staple job ! At least for you,anyway.

HAHAHAHA!!! You have over 10 years seniority?! At Republic?! You just told us a two things that you probably wanted to keep secret.

1. You couldn't get a job at a decent carrier during a time when EVERYONE was hiring (Northwest, Southwest, JetBlue, AirTran, Midwest, I could keep going, but I hope you get the point)- and they weren't exactly requiring space shuttle command experience as qualifications. I had 2700 TT and no airline experience when I got hired at Midwest...

2. Obviously you DO have wet dreams about Frontier 'Buses, because it's the closest you're EVER going to get to a real mainline airplane.

Seriously, if you couldn't get hired in 2007 there is something wrong with you!! And if you CHOSE to stay at REPUBLIC, there is something even more wrong with you!!!

 

[BORG]

I pray as part of the integration some Midwest CA's get in as CA's and you have to fly with CA Savall. I pray, pray, pray to Bedford's Jesus for this to happen. Study those systems boys!

I'll never forget the phone call from GB after his first trip off IOE with Savall when he just said "WTF just happened?!" I couldn't help but chuckle - even though I felt bad for him. Who would have thought a normal trip could be more grueling than the sim?

 

[Bluestreak]

HAHAHAHA!!! You have over 10 years seniority?! At Republic?! You just told us a two things that you probably wanted to keep secret.

1. You couldn't get a job at a decent carrier during a time when EVERYONE was hiring (Northwest, Southwest, JetBlue, AirTran, Midwest, I could keep going, but I hope you get the point)- and they weren't exactly requiring space shuttle command experience as qualifications. I had 2700 TT and no airline experience when I got hired at Midwest...

2. Obviously you DO have wet dreams about Frontier 'Buses, because it's the closest you're EVER going to get to a real mainline airplane.

Seriously, if you couldn't get hired in 2007 there is something wrong with you!! And if you CHOSE to stay at REPUBLIC, there is something even more wrong with you!!!

That is ironic coming from a bitter YX lifer.What's YOUR excuse for not getting hired at a REAL airline ? I guess YX was YOUR dream airline ,eh Sparky ? That was the BEST you could do ? Nope,no desire to fly the 'Bus in Denver.Enjoy your gubment cheese.

 

[BORG]

Yeah, Midwest was just a terrible place to work - mainline jets for mainline pay, and living in KC I got to sleep in my own bed most nights. It was just awful...

The funny thing is, two weeks after I got furloughed I started at NetJets. First year pay was around $70K and I flew 75 hours. Another crappy job...

As for the gubment cheese comment, I'm doing just fine so don't worry yourslef too much about me...

 

[FSIGRAD]

I'll never forget the phone call from GB after his first trip off IOE with Savall when he just said "WTF just happened?!" I couldn't help but chuckle - even though I felt bad for him. Who would have thought a normal trip could be more grueling than the sim?

No offense to this Savall guy. But if someone attempts to run their own private little training/testing/hazing program on the flight deck, they will not be a captain here for long.

 

[BORG]

No offense to this Savall guy. But if someone attempts to run their own private little training/testing/hazing program on the flight deck, they will not be a captain here for long.

Disclaimer: I have never flown with this guy, I was merely relating an experience that was described to me by one of my classmates on his first trip after IOE. Your mileage may vary...

 

[Toobdrvr]

As a Captain with over 10 years seniority-pray on.I also pray you'll be snatching my gear.That would be suh-weeet !Here's to a nice staple job ! At least for you,anyway.

This and the "gubment cheese" comment constitute about the lowest-class behavior I've experienced on FI. As a newly-acquired coworker of yours, I sincerely hope you're better than this...

 

[BORG]

This and the "gubment cheese" comment constitute about the lowest-class behavior I've experienced on FI. As a newly-acquired coworker of yours, I sincerely hope you're better than this...

He's pretty good at name-calling and trash talking, but I suppose he has to be when none of his opinions or assertions are supported by facts.

 

[Skyboy722]

Borg- A quick question from someone with no dog in this fight, and no flamebait. And before I ask it, know that I absolutely, positively understand your frustration. But......An honest question:

At the moment that the Midwest codeshare was announced, a codeshare that was signed between management personnel, what would you have done as a Republic pilot? Honest question. What, exactly, were their options? To have simply walked out individually they would have certainly been fired, and instantly replaced, acheiving nothing. To have walked out as a group would have constituted an illegal job action, and they all could have been sued. (ex: United)

Again, I completely understand your frustration. I really do. But I'd like to know what you think the pilots themselves, at that exact time, should have done.