QOL @ NetJets

[hyflyin]

Question for the Netjetters. Hearing 3.5 to 5 yrs until upgrades. Are these figures based on the current orders, a formula, union figure, something other than the "guesses".

Seems to depend who you talk to.

Anyone???

 

[CRJFlyer]

I had 1 after midnight return and worked x-mas (airlined home actually) and it yielded me an extra $1500 for the month......I think I've spent maybe $50 in december that wasn't re-imbursable(sp?) Most of it on beer and terminal food while making the flight home on last day..... Some days I am full by lunch and don't even eat the dinner meal or I'll bring it to the room to snack on later....

Coming to NJ was by far the best move I've ever made and hopefully the last...and thats not to mention the new payscales.

 

[Abbey]

Fact, Jack

Question for the Netjetters. Hearing 3.5 to 5 yrs until upgrades. Are these figures based on the current orders, a formula, union figure, something other than the "guesses".

Seems to depend who you talk to.

Anyone???

Hired in the fall of 2005 and am no where near upgrade status. Captain awards for the more junior airplanes are and have been for many many months in the 1800's. Might have been a couple sneak in the low 1900's.

However, as said above, even on year 3 pay, I am earning base pay equal to a 10 year UA A320 FO.

 

[fischman]

It's not just pilots who are leaving. I just spent 2 hours talking with an Owner that was all too happy to join our Marqui Jet program after dealing with 45 minute drives to LAX to fly on SWA to SFO. One too many delays, excuses and TSA experiences.

Yes, occasionally we experience delays here too. The difference is that I am totally accessable and I will offer ANY information that I have to the Owner to make the experience more understandable. Face-to-face communication, 18 inches away complete with eye contact is comparison to an over worked, under paid agent behind a large podium/counter staring at a computer screen.

WHAT!!?!?!?!?!! You actually talked to the passengers??? For 2 hours??? Wern't they upset about the fact that you were not in the cockpit doing your job?!? After all, you're a PILOT aren't you? Customer service is someone else's job. The sooner you figure that one out, the easier your life will become man.


Disclaimer: This entire post was sarcasm. As a matter of fact, I was standing right next to him. God he's good. No Fischmans were harmed in the making of this post. Always cunsult your physician before starting an aspirin regimn

 

[B19 Flyer]

Yeah, it's kinda weird. They're jumping ship at JetBlue like rats off a sinking vessel. I just finished my last tour with IOE for a guy who came over from JB. What's the deal? Is JB pulling a Titanic?
I've only ridden on them once, but it was a good experience and I thought, comparativily in the airline world, it was a pretty good product.

You know, looking back at 11 years with NJA, it's amazing how far we've come and how attitudes towards us have actually remained constant throughout.
At first, everyone hated us. They hated us because we were expanding, and supposedly corporate flight departments were shutting down because the boss felt it was financially better to be with us than keep a corporate aircraft. And they hated us because we were paid so little, that we were dragging the bar down and lowering compensation packages across the entire industry. In essence, the whores of the private jet world. They hated our union and held it up as an example of why unions are so bad, because we're weak! And they hated us because we were just a rock in the stream, a stepping stone to build time to go fly for UAL, DAL, and yes, JetBlue.

And now? They still hate us. The hate us because our greedy union will ultimately bankrupt the company. Before, we were making too little money. Now, we're making too much. They hate the fact that our union is now strong. That somehow having a union now MEANS something. They hate us for our success. Hey! It's aviation. We're supposed make and lose money along with the cycles of the rest of the industry! What's with this positive growth and success under all circumstances? They hate us now because people are actually LEAVING the majors to come fly for us.

Who is "they"? You'll know them when you hear them. They're the ones on this message board and others who never have a positive thing to say about NJA or our union, whether we were making poor livings, or making a good one. Whether the company makes money or loses. Whether we close flight departments, or ultimately open them as some owners learn that private jets are nice and leave us to buy and fly their own jet.

So I say, come on over! Send us your poor, your haggard, your downtrodden! Let the haters fly for JetBlue! We have more than enough snacks and Fiji water for the wretched masses of thirsty pilots who haven't felt the love! Soon, we will all rise up as one, and B19 and the rest of the haters will find themselves on 'ignore' lists around the world!

Oh, sorry. Sugar rush from all the holiday cookies.:0

Union Hater? Me? Not hardly. I'm glad you have your union. In 1999, all was wonderful, 121 carriers like American, United and Delta all had contracts that make the current NJ contract look like pocket change. 2 years later the economy tanked and the unions didn't react. The entire industry was sucked down with it.

Right now, the NJ contract is the best thing since sliced bread. It will create a simular situation like the now famous "United plus $1" scenario. All the other unions in the fractional world now have a new standard. If the economy stumbles like it did in '01, it won't take just NJ, it'll cause a "correction" like in 121. Then, everybody will be scrambling back into 121 again. One thing about unions, they will force change, right down to strangling the golden goose of the fractional industry.

 

[CA1900]

Union Hater? Me? Not hardly. I'm glad you have your union. In 1999, all was wonderful, 121 carriers like American, United and Delta all had contracts that make the current NJ contract look like pocket change. 2 years later the economy tanked and the unions didn't react. The entire industry was sucked down with it.

Delta would still have been losing money hand over first if the pilots had been working for free. Non-sequitur at best.

All the other unions in the fractional world...

If you could go ahead and provide us that list, that'd be helpful.

 

[realityman]

Union Hater? Me? Not hardly. I'm glad you have your union. In 1999, all was wonderful, 121 carriers like American, United and Delta all had contracts that make the current NJ contract look like pocket change. 2 years later the economy tanked and the unions didn't react. The entire industry was sucked down with it.

Right now, the NJ contract is the best thing since sliced bread. It will create a simular situation like the now famous "United plus $1" scenario. All the other unions in the fractional world now have a new standard. If the economy stumbles like it did in '01, it won't take just NJ, it'll cause a "correction" like in 121. Then, everybody will be scrambling back into 121 again. One thing about unions, they will force change, right down to strangling the golden goose of the fractional industry.

B19, your post is so full of inaccuracies and hypocrisy it's hard to know where to begin. You claim you're not a union hater. But then go on to say that when the economy tanked it was the unions who brought the majors down. Naw. No hating there! You say you don't hate unions, but then go on to say that unions will ultimately strangle the golden goose. Nope. No hating.

Sorry, but NJA and the airlines are two different animals. The economy DID take a major dump right after 9/11. The airlines were really hit hard. In fact, most folks were. But guess what. NJA had continued good growth. We saw a momentary spike in business as a few wealthy individuals didn't walk, but ran, from the airlines to us, but mostly we just had nice, linear growth. So what's my point? Doesn't seem like ups and downs in the economy have any real effect on our business. A little, yes. But the kind of folks we're flying don't go bust because of a down economy. A few do. But for the most part, we have a completely different and far more stable client base who aren't as affected by swings in the economy or changes in fuel prices as the general population is that the airlines have to deal with.

You're comparing our newest contract with United's best contract? Wow!! You must think really highly of what we got. We got a good contract, but not THAT good! Our F/O's will now make a livable wage. On the 7/7 I believe first year wages start at $56K. On the 18-day sched, I think it's somewhere near $69K. After 5 years neither schedule breaks $100K (not including O/T, holidays, etc...). After 14 years here as a captain, none of our schedules breaks $166K in base pay. I'm not privy to the pay scales of United's contract when they had the best, but what was 5th year F/O pay and what did a 14 year captain make? Maybe I heard incorrectly, but I thought I heard that they had many captains there making well over $250K. Considering our AVERAGE captain here will probably make around $115K in base pay, I'm wondering how good your comparison is.

Oh, I almost forgot, you're missing something else in your comparison. The more senior you became at United, the less days you had to work. So as their base pay would climb into the stratosphere, they'd work fewer days. Less productivity for a bunch more money wasn't a good equation for United. Some of those folks were able to work the schedule to only fly 7 or 8 days a month while making those wages. Here at NJA, no matter how senior you get or how large your paycheck is, you'll still be working the same number of days as you did when you started, minus an extra week or two of vacation you gain as you become senior. So NJA still gets good productivity out of us.

Finally, would you care to list "all the other unions in the fractional world"? I'll get you started: FLOPS. Okay B19, feel free to add on at your leisure.

I really and truly hope that FLOPS gets a contract that beats ours (give us something to aim for next time), but realistically, does anyone think their first contract will even match ours? Doesn't really play very well into your theory about unions one-upping each other until we have contracts killing the industry, now does it B19?

I also wonder why you don't factor bad management into the formula for whats happened to the airlines in the past 5 or 6 years. But I guess that's discussion for a different thread.

Yes, it's possible for NJA to fall on hard times in the future. But your making that insinuation in your post is just plain stupid. It's possible for ANY company to fall on hard times in the future. Nobody can accurately predict what will happen with oil prices, the global markets, wars, future government regs, and any other number of important factors that go into making a business successful or bringing it down. Could NJA go down the tubes? Sure. How about Microsoft? It's possible that even the biggest oil companies could one day find themselves circling the drain.

But I'm sure that according to you, it'll all be labor's fault. If only those darn stubborn union workers would work for free so their companies can survive (and we'd also hate to see those management bonuses be reduced).

 

[realityman]

Correction: I stated that none of our pay scales tops $166K. Not entirely true when you factor in the BBJ pay.

However, considering that the BBJ's have, what, maybe 15 captains or so out of a pilot force of 3000, I didn't count that payscale because 99.5% of us will never be on it.

 

[NJA bound]

Correction: I stated that none of our pay scales tops $166K. Not entirely true when you factor in the BBJ pay.

However, considering that the BBJ's have, what, maybe 15 captains or so out of a pilot force of 3000, I didn't count that payscale because 99.5% of us will never be on it.

A quick review of section 27

>40K lbs (all of the Falcons to come when Dasso gets the range numbers up)
18 day capt pay
yr 1 $106,444
$110,169
$114,025
$118,016
$122,147
$126,422
$130,847
$135,426
$140,166
$145,072
$150,149
$155,405
$160,844
$166,473
$173,132
$180,058
yr 17 $187,260
4% longevity bonus for each year after 17
Reference 27.1(D)

 

[Willy21]

I forgot that the Delta pilots decided to sell the fuel hedges to enusre the top executives would have there pension. (that alone probably put Delta into Ch9) I thank you B19 for reminding me of that decision.

Pull your head out. A union, if run correctly which I believe the 1108 is, can do things management can't do. On the flip side managment can do things a union can't do. It is called give and take and NetJets is working on something that nobody has seen in a long time. Will it work, time will tell.

I just think you need to wait and see the outcome before you pass judgement. Good day B19.