PSA offered 900's

[D'Angelo]

This is like DeJaVu all over again, take away quality of life things and make our lives miserable(layover location, airport appreciation...etc) than sell it back to us! This reminds me of the good ol' days watching mainline gut their contract and destroy their way of life.

Secondly, if we do get these 900's, I see a scenario where 3 years from now we hear the same song and dance in negotiations. "Well if you don't fly em for minimum wage, we'll send em to Mesa. We will have to furlough those 200 to 400 newhires and all those long term FO's who upgraded will get downgraded"

Third....1000 PIC is like turning 16....you have the opportunity to drive, but no one will let you. Just ask all the 7000 hour Captains floating around here who have several thousand hours of PIC and are still here (not by choice).

I am not opposed to helping the company, but this "Take it or leave it" we need an answer yesterday is not how these things should be negotiated.

In the end we are setting up our future and I am talking about 20 years out, not 3.

By the way Crazipilot...that was hilarious!!

Its not only the 1000PIC thats important. Its the payraise you get with an upgrade thats most important. Again a contract with fantastic benefits, work rules, etc. is worthless without growth. If your gonna be a career FO then your still stuck at a dead end. Id rather be growing and making more money than in a dead end job.

 

[Crzipilot]

Wet dream to live in WI??? Dunno 'bout that...LOL....

 

[BoilerUP]

Wet dream to live in WI??? Dunno 'bout that...LOL....

I dunno about wet dream to live there, but wet dream to drive to work instead of commuting to PHL or DCA? Yeah, I'd say that fits for a fair chunk...

 

[Clipper_Aurora]

This is what it all boils down to....

1. REALLY senior CA's will majority will vote yes for the sake of thier Career at PSA

2. Majority of J4J CA's will vote yes for sake of slots

3. Majority of all other CA's (middle the road) they will vote no, they have nothing to gain only to drop due to slots, and no raise till possibly 2009

4. Now the people that will make the decision are the FO's, really senior ones will vote yes for IC and $25 dollar an hour raise (give or take) real junior FO's will vote yes for long awaited line holding and puts 150 pilots beneath them, middle of the road FO's 2-3 years don't know what the hell to do, because the middle of the road CA's are convincing some this is not good, and then the others are smart and knows that it is a good thing!

MY ADVICE to fellow FO'S do what is best for you.....others don't give a sh&t about you....they already have their 1000PIC hours and sitting left seat, house kids family etc.......what do we have? foodstamps, poor wages, livin in mommy's basement, seat locked FO flying with J4J's (majority) that thinks they are gods gift to flying.

make the right choice, if we don't get them, MESA will and PSA will be shut down within a couple years later.

PARKERS team says YES or NO

vote yes

 

[Sig]

make the right choice, if we don't get them, MESA will and PSA will be shut down within a couple years later.

I've gotten out of pocket on this thread and beeyotched about things past, so hopefully by admitting it I regain some cred.

One of the things I've said about this is that if you think you'll have a bargaining chip in the future, you certainly have the same one now.

On top of that, Mesa is a crap product. Check Doug's Feb or Jan PHX crew news to pilots, about 00:42:10 he says the words, "Gosh, MESA sucks." This in response to a PSA CA's complaint about their atrocious service as he tries to nonrev to work-- out of an outstation PSA as well as PDT serves. It's still there, but you have to wait until the stream buffers that far into the meeting.

Look. Mainline is ready to invest in planes. If they wanted a crap lift airline to fly them, they'd put out an RFP first to see who whores and how low. Mesa already shamed themselves with that flying; why are mainline managers looking to expand a wholly-owned at their expense rather than throwing some more cheese at the rats that are already doing it? That's important to realize.

There is a reason you're getting tapped to expand over the only 900 operator in the system already- they can't stand them. Need proof? THE CEO SAID THEY SUCK, and they do. You DO have a chip.

Good luck. Tough hand to play.

***Furthermore,

I've been under the assumption that the mainline MEC is watching this deal. Consider that.

One final, loud and proud sentiment is the fact that up until May every crew news webcast at both PHX and CLT forced Doug to field questions about contract lift (mainly Mesa), and why not the WOs doing more flying instead of them. Watch the webcasts. The mainline pilots we all want to be seem to want to protect us. Consider that as well.

And, uh... Mesa sucks.

 

[Lineup&wt]

is that u spring break

 

[Sawmill]

Yup...Its me. Still looking at this site for entertainment purposes. Who is this by the way?
Pseu pseu pseudo

 

[Lineup&wt]

yeah its the pink peep eater. give me a call.

 

[PropPiedmont]

Sorry just got back from a long trip. Don't have time to read the last 100 posts I missed. So, if this has already been said then I apologize.

PSA pilots have US Airways management by the balls. And since I'm not at PSA I don't know if you guys know this. US Air will not give these 900s to Mesa period. They will not send them to Republic due to staffing concerns. They will not send them to Piedmont because they don't ever acknowledge us. They won't go to mainline because the pay is too high. Bottom line is PSA is already type rated for the 900, they already have the training department, and US Airways management knows they are weak.

PSA please listen to this, think about it and formulate a plan before acting. You guys have US airways by the balls, you really do. Stand your ground and get the pay that is deserved. Ask for the US Air E190 pay rates.

Worst case scenerio if you say no:

First US Airways will take a dump in their pants. You will catch them totally of guard.

Next, US Air will do one of two things. They will either negotiate the higher pay rate or they will call up PDT to bid for the 900 flying. PDT will definitely jump on the flying and once they do, US Air will announce the merger of PSA and PDT. This will bring the 900s right back to PSA, since they have the training dept. US Airways is LOW COST.......

Pease, Please, Please think about every scenerio possible before taking the 900s.

PSA YOU HAVE US AIRWAYS BY THE SHORT AND CURLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sniper]

Sorry just got back from a long trip. Don't have time to read the last 100 posts I missed. So, if this has already been said then I apologize.

PSA pilots have US Airways management by the balls. And since I'm not at PSA I don't know if you guys know this. US Air will not give these 900s to Mesa period. They will not send them to Republic due to staffing concerns. They will not send them to Piedmont because they don't ever acknowledge us. They won't go to mainline because the pay is too high. Bottom line is PSA is already type rated for the 900, they already have the training department, and US Airways management knows they are weak.

PSA please listen to this, think about it and formulate a plan before acting. You guys have US airways by the balls, you really do. Stand your ground and get the pay that is deserved. Ask for the US Air E190 pay rates.

Worst case scenerio if you say no:

First US Airways will take a dump in their pants. You will catch them totally of guard.

Next, US Air will do one of two things. They will either negotiate the higher pay rate or they will call up PDT to bid for the 900 flying. PDT will definitely jump on the flying and once they do, US Air will announce the merger of PSA and PDT. This will bring the 900s right back to PSA, since they have the training dept. US Airways is LOW COST.......

Pease, Please, Please think about every scenerio possible before taking the 900s.

PSA YOU HAVE US AIRWAYS BY THE SHORT AND CURLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Agree 100%


Merge the whole thing is a must

 

[D'Angelo]

Sorry just got back from a long trip. Don't have time to read the last 100 posts I missed. So, if this has already been said then I apologize.

PSA pilots have US Airways management by the balls. And since I'm not at PSA I don't know if you guys know this. US Air will not give these 900s to Mesa period. They will not send them to Republic due to staffing concerns. They will not send them to Piedmont because they don't ever acknowledge us. They won't go to mainline because the pay is too high. Bottom line is PSA is already type rated for the 900, they already have the training department, and US Airways management knows they are weak.

PSA please listen to this, think about it and formulate a plan before acting. You guys have US airways by the balls, you really do. Stand your ground and get the pay that is deserved. Ask for the US Air E190 pay rates.

Worst case scenerio if you say no:

First US Airways will take a dump in their pants. You will catch them totally of guard.

Next, US Air will do one of two things. They will either negotiate the higher pay rate or they will call up PDT to bid for the 900 flying. PDT will definitely jump on the flying and once they do, US Air will announce the merger of PSA and PDT. This will bring the 900s right back to PSA, since they have the training dept. US Airways is LOW COST.......

Pease, Please, Please think about every scenerio possible before taking the 900s.

PSA YOU HAVE US AIRWAYS BY THE SHORT AND CURLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats a big problem with pilots. They are truly idealists at heart. The bottom line is no one knows what the decision is. You best be competitive first time around rather than being caught with your trousers down.

 

[PunchTheClown]

We better say no. For all of these reasons. Management is just going to be blowing a bunch of smoke. The salary for management is based on the size of the fleet. So you can bet that all of our beloved higher ups (if you can call them that) will be getting a pay raise. We should as well. We are the only ones that do any real work and without us, the airline wouldnt exist.

This may or may not be a good time to tie this in but did you see that the cultural survey showed that they the only groups that thought this place sucked to work at was the pilot and flight attendant groups? Interesting to say the least. Lets get some more green from this cheap bastards.

 

[CRJMonkey]

Proppiedmont....Great idea . and man that would be a great move for the pilot group to raise standards and moral. it seems to logical and where talking managemnet, when was the last time any of these suits thought about tommorow instead of 2 days ago. the whole 900 issue came out nowhere it was so unexpected when it was sprung on these guys. whos to say they don't have something even more tricky up there sleeve if PSA declines. After all its airline management, the slime of the industry

 

[ex j-41]

Here are the reasons why peidmont will not get the Jets.
1) No J4J agreement
2) No training program
3) They will have to do proving runs $$$
4) How do they determine who flys the jets and who flys the props? Seniority? Then the cost would far exceed PSA
5) No pay scale for 90 seaters in place. 6 month min negotiations.
6) If Piedmont gets the 900's and PSA's 200 are going away....then PSA would then just fade away. Makes it difficult for management to whipsaw a regional when there is only one left.


I hear the rumors that either we take the jets or piedmont will, is a lie. PSA will get the jets even if we vote "No".

On a side note PSA was told that this is not a negotiating item. We either vote Yes or No. Here is what i got from the MEC

Also know that any final agreement to be negotiated would be subject to a member ratification vote.

This sounds like a negotiation item to me. What scares me is that there is no provision that stops PSA from taking away the 200's. Can you imagine an all 700 and 900 fleet getting paid 200 rates!

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Here are the reasons why peidmont will not get the Jets.
1) No J4J agreement
2) No training program
3) They will have to do proving runs $$$
4) How do they determine who flys the jets and who flys the props? Seniority? Then the cost would far exceed PSA
5) No pay scale for 90 seaters in place. 6 month min negotiations.
6) If Piedmont gets the 900's and PSA's 200 are going away....then PSA would then just fade away. Makes it difficult for management to whipsaw a regional when there is only one left.


I hear the rumors that either we take the jets or piedmont will, is a lie. PSA will get the jets even if we vote "No".

On a side note PSA was told that this is not a negotiating item. We either vote Yes or No. Here is what i got from the MEC

This sounds like a negotiation item to me. What scares me is that there is no provision that stops PSA from taking away the 200's. Can you imagine an all 700 and 900 fleet getting paid 200 rates!

Your conclusions may or may not be correct, but there are some factual mistakes in your post...

1. We DO have a J4J agreement. As a matter of fact, we were the first WO to agree to it's terms. We never got a jet, but we are still a "participating carrier" for the purposes of flow through, so obviously we have a J4J agreement in place.

2. PDT does have a CRJ AQP program on the shelves, approved and ready to go. We have had it since we thought we were getting the jets after being the first WO to agree to Group's terms. After all, they said the first WO to agree would win the prize... Oh, wait, that was the first WO to slit the other two's throats. Thats how PSA came to have them. Maybe you weren't around for that.

3. Yawn. BFD. A drop in the bucket.

4. Seniority. Duh. You really haven't been at this long, have you? Are you really advocating an equipment bid outside of seniority? Yeah, being a guy with 15-20 years in at PDT is really a fu#king crime, ain't it?

5. Maybe right on that one, but I doubt it'd take six months.

6. Parker did say he wanted "further consolidation at the WO's" so who knows. Just remember... CEL seniority governs!