PSA offered 900's

[nethan]

How can they seriously offer the flying to PDT when it would cost millions to get a training/MX program off the ground while they are asking for no cost increase at PSA? Mesa maybe as they already have the infrastructure in place, but PDT doesn't make sense.

 

[WSurf]

How can they seriously offer the flying to PDT when it would cost millions to get a training/MX program off the ground while they are asking for no cost increase at PSA? Mesa maybe as they already have the infrastructure in place, but PDT doesn't make sense.

See thats how they will get PSA to sign on! They will tell them that PDT will take them and fly them at Dash 100 rates!! So if you don't sign they go to PDT!!!!!! You gotta love ALPA!!!!!!!!!!! What a joke!

 

[embryflyboy]

i can't wait tell we get the 747RJ what a big shiny jet so what if i am paid 325 a week the when i get my 1000 pic i can go to a major

 

[embryflyboy]

in all seriousness guy if you dont have the stones to vote no at least demand a Good flow through, better scheduals and min 14 days off for holding a line. oh and that round two awards are to be given out in order of seniority

 

[jetfo]

Reasons to take the 900s!

Hey Jet F/O....Give me 3 good reasons why we should fly 900's for 3 or more years for the current rate. And "They will go to Mesa" can't be one of them. My mind is open.....

1. Growth benefits everyone! 20 aircraft with 20 options! And, this will be just the beginning with long term PSA in, Mesa out!

2. As many as 200 captain positions becoming available!

3. These upgrades and movements equates to payraises by virtue of FOs moving to captain pay and those reserve captains and FOs becoming lineholders getting 85-90 hours vs 72 hours of pay.

4. Getting these aircraft puts PSA in a much better position and makes it a viable airline with 69-89 aircraft vs 49 aircraft, that will have more bargaining power with US Airways and strengthens its position within US Airways.

5. These aircraft will increase the average stage length from what it has dropped to recently of 300 to 400NM to at least 600 to 700NM, improving the markets we fly into and thereby forcing improved schedules and more efficient scheduling.

6. PSA will change from a regional airline to a national airline, with true national route network like Skywest, flying coast to coast and again to Canada and the Caribbean and possibly Mexico.

7. 18 aircraft deliveries a year.

9. Furlough protection, you will have an additional 200 to 400 pilots behind you.

10. With increased size comes increased attention by Tempe and the management philosophies and current PSA management will change for the better.

11. Once we have the aircraft on the property we are in a better bargaining position.

12. Increase pay will inevitably follow, no later than the next contract.

13. The pay offered is average or above average with what is currently being paid to operators of CRJ700/900 and EMB170 equipment. It is even close to or equal to JetBlue EMB195 rates. You can say that we should get paid more for a larger aircraft, but no one else is either.

14. For better or worse, this industry is all about PIC turbine time. The additional aircraft will get you to the left seat faster and get you on with a mainline carrier sooner, getting a seniority number there sooner and improving your carreer earnings and QOL, if that is your goal. (I am sorry, I am beginning to sound like Kit Darby of Air Inc. and have been brainwashed)

Those are just a start of what I could come up with on short notice. Let's also not forget the consequences of saying no thanks, which definately means continued stagnation at best and possibly an asset sale of our aircraft and routes to a variety of willing buyers, leaving you and your fellow pilots on the street.

Let's not forget what the CP posted. This is a YES or NO offer, take it or leave it. If you think you'll make your statement of defiance to management, stand on your principals, and stand up against the race to the bottom, you and your fellow pilots will lose.

Manny of the other commentators on this board don't know the situation at PSA and think that this is an opening for negotiations and an opportunity to gain some advantage. Let me assure you it is not and these people are not playing games.

This is an early and unexpected Christmas gift, don't shove it back in their face because they didn't include the batteries. Let's just see if they will get us the accessories soon.

When PSA was initially given the opportunity to get the first CRJs they had to agree to the terms, which included the Jets for Jobs protocol. Had PSA not accepted the terms then, PSA would have not continued to fly the Dorniers, PSA would have ceased to exist. I believe his is another one of those turning moments for PSA and I hope they don't blow it over little or nothing.

I have already shown that payrates, while not great, are not out of line for the industry. And, there is little point in fighting for a continuation of the blended rate since the difference is inconsequential, a quarter or two an hour at best. What do you want to argue about. Believe me, most other carriers would kill for this growth and a don't let them convince you otherwise.

 

[CallmeJB]

Is there anything the company has told you that you don't believe?

Good to see you guys aren't caving again.... uke:

 

[Sig]

Jetfo-

you're starting down a very, very slippery slope. You are sounding less like Kit Darby and more like a stooge, because you're simply in it for yourself. As far as YOU can see, YOU have furlough protection, current reserves move up to hard lines, current FOs get CA upgrades.... What about pilots not on property yet? Get excited about growth! I sure would! But dang, don't sell the farm for the carrot. Make it happen as best you possibly can, don't rationalize the turd sundae they're serving by picking the parts that you might like best.

In the end, it's still a turd.

 

[jetfo]

Is there anything the company has told you that you don't believe?

Good to see you guys aren't caving again.... uke:

Facts are facts, if you don't like them, don't shoot the messenger!

 

[BenderGonzales]

"...For better or worse, this industry is all about PIC turbine time. The additional aircraft will get you to the left seat faster and get you on with a mainline carrier sooner, getting a seniority number there sooner and improving your carreer earnings and QOL"

HAHAHAHA!!! Sorry... I couldn't help but to get a little chuckle out of that. Thousands of furloughed pilots nationwide and you're in a hurry to get hired at which "mainline"? Frontier? AirTran? Spirit?

Because, friend, Southwest and FedEx aren't going to be able to hire ALL of you -- and 1000 PIC ain't even close to competitive anymore for those guys.

Selling your soul for PIC turbine is no better than buying an $8000 type rating in the hopes that you'll get an interview (with continued hopes that you'll get hired).

It's an expensive lottery ticket.

 

[jetfo]

Jetfo-

you're starting down a very, very slippery slope. You are sounding less like Kit Darby and more like a stooge, because you're simply in it for yourself. As far as YOU can see, YOU have furlough protection, current reserves move up to hard lines, current FOs get CA upgrades.... What about pilots not on property yet? Get excited about growth! I sure would! But dang, don't sell the farm for the carrot. Make it happen as best you possibly can, don't rationalize the turd sundae they're serving by picking the parts that you might like best.

In the end, it's still a turd.

Ex-J41 asked a question and I answered !

As far as being in it for myself, I will be long gone before the first 900 arrives, if the pilot group agrees to this proposal.

You see this as an opportunity for negotiation and gaining some advantage, but what I understand, this is not subject to negotiations.

Take it or leave it, and I just pointed out the benefits of accepting the current deal versus the possible consequences of declining the offer. There are certainly a lot more positives than negatives.

As far as FO's not on the property yet, won't 100 to 200 prospective FO positions be made available that otherwise would not? And, with a greater and larger fleet, these FO's will eventually benefit with better pay and schedules, and, more importantly movement!

By the way, with regard to your remark "don't sell the farm for the carrot," it's is more like someone wants to give you a carrot and you don't think it is big enough and want to give it back.

Your best comment was "Make it happen as best as you can," and I hope this MEC and pilot group will do exactly that, to the benefit of everyone concerned.

 

[jetfo]

"...For better or worse, this industry is all about PIC turbine time. The additional aircraft will get you to the left seat faster and get you on with a mainline carrier sooner, getting a seniority number there sooner and improving your carreer earnings and QOL"

HAHAHAHA!!! Sorry... I couldn't help but to get a little chuckle out of that. Thousands of furloughed pilots nationwide and you're in a hurry to get hired at which "mainline"? Frontier? AirTran? Spirit?

Because, friend, Southwest and FedEx aren't going to be able to hire ALL of you -- and 1000 PIC ain't even close to competitive anymore for those guys.

Selling your soul for PIC turbine is no better than buying an $8000 type rating in the hopes that you'll get an interview (with continued hopes that you'll get hired).

It's an expensive lottery ticket.

You got to pay to play and hope springs eternal!

You have got to take your chances if you don't try you don't get. Things are slowly getting better. Continental, Frontier, AirTran, FedEx, JetBlue, Southwest are all hiring and United and US Airways will be exhausting their fulough lists in the next year or two. What can I say, when things begin to turn around, you've got to be ready.

I had a 23 year old girl in my jumpseat, spent one year at Mesa as an FO on the ERJ145, she is now an FO at Continental. Just goes to show, it can happen. Now where can I get that sex change?

 

[Sig]

If we can agree that's the best comment, then let 'er rip. The message is this: Don't rationalize the situation; if you have to do that then the deal probably stinks.

It sucks. What I see is yet another whipsaw, it's a tough situation, and I daresay PDT and PSA pilots are probably one beatdown away from just saying to heck with it. Things seem pretty bleak over there, and that's a ripe situation for management to exploit.

I can only imagine what it would be like if they wanted us to fly -400s, which every. single. Piedmont. pilot. would die for right now (the fleet plan makes us pull our hair out), then tell us no-go for mo' money or else they go to a contract carrier... it would be extremely hard. Contract up in 2009 for us, how about y'all?

 

[NCFlyer]

jetfo's reasons 1-14 (or is it reason #8 that he omitted) because it would be good for me and all the rest of you guys should make it happen if for no other reason than that.

jetfo let me ask you a question:

Do you have to keep yelling at us?


Or is it just that whatever you say is so profound and important that you want to make sure that nobody misses it? Or possibly you need to have the bifocals checked.

 

[ex j-41]

Has anyone heard what our fearless leaders have to say about this? (alpa)

 

[LandRoverNut]

I vote "NO", our pay rates are disgusting as they are. Flying a 90 seat a/c for less then other airlines flying airplanes half the size? No way.

We need to do 2 things....

1) Get more time to negotiate the rates.
2) PSA needs to show us some "Good Faith" ie: get scheduling to do their job properly and give us acceptable hotels, no industrial parks (All). No truck stops (Sleep inn). Our QOL is horrible.

When PSA management gives us these things then should we be OK in negotiating a 90 seat rate. Why should we sell our souls so they can make more profit?

I vote NO until we get a better QOL and hotels w/ food, bread and water would be better than waht we have!!!!!!!!!

This industry %&$#*@ sucks!

 

[Stuka Luva]

This is an early and unexpected Christmas gift

Oh thank you so much Santa, yeah we are just soooo special and Tempe looOoOOOOooooOoooves us so much don't they?
Why then did they go to Air Wiskey first instead of the "darling" PSA? This deal in its current form blows.

 

[BenderGonzales]

US Airways will be exhausting it's furlough list in a year? Sure. Because we'll all be bypassing recall into the right seat of the E190!

Beyond that I still say you're gambling.

 

[jetfo]

jetfo's reasons 1-14 (or is it reason #8 that he omitted) because it would be good for me and all the rest of you guys should make it happen if for no other reason than that.

jetfo let me ask you a question:

Do you have to keep yelling at us?


Or is it just that whatever you say is so profound and important that you want to make sure that nobody misses it? Or possibly you need to have the bifocals checked.

Sorry, I am starting to be an old man and can't see anything. Maybe I should go to air traffic controllers school;-)

Maybe I am just so passionate (for lack of a better term) on this issue. I work with some of the greatest guys/girls that I have had the opportunity to fly with at PSA in my relatively long aviation career, and I would like to see some good things happen there, for their benefit not mine.

I guess I also believe that we can't change the path this industry has taken overnight and maybe ever. We should strive to improve it to the best of our ability, but to swim against the stream usually doesn't get you anywhere fast.

More and more domestic short and medium haul flying has shifted to the regionals. You are not going to reverse that anytime soon. Pay rates are down across the board and asking for something you can't get is pointless.

My main point is, for PSA or any carrier, get the airplanes and then work on getting the pay and work rules you want. Otherwise you have nothing to negotiate with or for.

If PSA declines the aircraft because they don't like the pay, not only are the aircraft going elsewhere, come time to renegotiate the contract, there will be no CRJ900s on the property to negotiate rates for.

I'll stop my sermon there, good luck you guys and take care!

 

[jetfo]

jetfo's reasons 1-14 (or is it reason #8 that he omitted) because it would be good for me and all the rest of you guys should make it happen if for no other reason than that.

By the way, you're right, for some reason I missed reason #8. Maybe it's like the 13th floor in some buildings, or maybe I'll come up with another excellent reason. Stand by for now

 

[Sig]

My main point is, for PSA or any carrier, get the airplanes and then work on getting the pay and work rules you want. Otherwise you have nothing to negotiate with or for.

That's the point, Jet. Let's get a few things absolutely clear: Growth at a WO is a good thing! The past view that USAirways took regarding taking care of the neighbors while ignoring the family is not just hackneyed, it should be over. Another salient point is the fact that this is a rough, nasty and difficult situation to be in. I will grant out the fact that PSA is flying RJs that PDT negotiated, while you were flying a relatively new fleet, blah blah blah etc, ad nauseum. I'll forget it, I wasn't here, I have the numbers in my contract for larger JET flying pay, and you have the RJs. It's touchy, it's irrelevant.

But what will you have in the future regarding negotiating power? If you don't have it now, you won't have it in the future. That's the slippery slope I've been ranting about. If you DO have a future bargaining chip, I guarantee you have it right now as well, so play that hand and play it to the wall.

Are you willing to have the same atrocious QOL, same pay, same everything except a large increase in cattle you're hauling behind you? It's worth looking at and fighting over.

Again, if you agree that working the best possible deal is the best possible situation and you trust your MEC, then let 'er rip. Do as much as you can.