PNCL: Class personified!! wow., just wow

[Flyer1015]

So DAL/NWA is a completely different animal, but the LOA and Republic mergers aren't? Give me a break.

Yes. NWA and DAL are *two* carriers, legacies. Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan are three regional airlines, with waaay too diverse a pilot group for there to be any good 'fair' way to integrate all. Plus, the career expectations of all three are entirely different. Mesaba's certificate will be gone. That's pretty much a done deal. Management has made it clear that *because* the Mesaba Saabs are hitting the desert anyway, they will keep the Colgan side of things, but rename the certificate to Mesaba. It's very obvious why. Colgan's name is an embarassment after 3407, and Pinnacle holdings wants the name gone for good. And that's what they will get. Mesaba, which for some reason many Mesaba pilots refuse to believe, was headed down the road of furloughs and downgrades. You cannot keep the same numbers on the pilot list with nearly 40% of your fleet parked. By next year it would be only 60 CRJs and no Saabs. And since the Saabs are all gone, and the RJs migrating to Pinncale, it only makes sense to just use Colgan and call their certificate 'Mesaba.' Pinnacle's method may sound "unjust" to many, but I will say Mesaba is coming from left field and are crazy to think it should be straight-up DOH, and Colgan the same for relative.

As for Pinnacle's status and category method, it has shown historical precedent and under the circumstances of the three properties, believed it was a valid method. They understand that integration proposals can be emotional; however, they believe our proposal resulted from careful factual analysis without regard to emotional considerations.

 

[mesaba13]

So under the 9E proposal where would someone with 12 years in that is a 900captain fit?

 

[AiRegency]

Colgan's name is an embarassment after 3407, and Pinnacle holdings wants the name gone for good.

That's a bit harsh don't you think? If we're gonna be honest here then you should at least admit that if (and that is an if) 3407 has anything at all to do with why they wanted to lose the Colgan name in favor of XJ's then it's only because XJ has a clean accident history NOT because CJC's is soooo bad. It isn't. I'd even say it's better then Pinnacle's.

But you do give a fair assessment of the furloughs and down grades at Mesaba. They were and are eminent. Not tryin to hate, just speakin the facts.

 

[Flyer1015]

That's a bit harsh don't you think? If we're gonna be honest here then you should at least admit that if (and that is an if) 3407 has anything at all to do with why they wanted to lose the Colgan name in favor of XJ's then it's only because XJ has a clean accident history NOT because CJC's is soooo bad. It isn't. I'd even say it's better then Pinnacle's.

But you do give a fair assessment of the furloughs and down grades at Mesaba. They were and are eminent. Not tryin to hate, just speakin the facts.

It's not harsh, it's the facts. I'm not going to be PC about the Colgan crash anymore. It resulted from a complete lack of discipline, irresponsibility (the overnight commute before a trip), self-inflicted 'rest' issues, complete blatant disregard for the sterile rules, an approach to stall that, due to pulling back on the yoke, resulted in a full stall. Add on top of that the CA's lying on his applications of only 1 failure, when in reality it was 3, for a total of 5 total, it became clear to everyone (mainly the flying public) that Colgan was a typical un-audited operation with no checks/balances. You are right, Pinnacle has had its bad accidents too (the biggest/worse being Pinnacle's Jefferson City crash with the FL410 pilots). But that crash didn't lead to congressional hearings, commuting issues, pilots lying on their applications, etc.

Thank you for agreeing with Mesaba's assesment. It's true, and anyone with a brain can see the writing on the wall. I know some think they are super pilots, but even at Mesaba you cannot keep the same amount of pilots once the 3 dozen Saabs are gone. They will lose the bottom end FOs to furloughs, and the most junior Saab CAs downgraded to FOs. Both downgrades and displacments were already in the picture from now until 2012 once the Saab cuts were all done.

 

[Inconceivable]

Sediment is the stuff floating around the bottom of the cess pool aka the nickle

So...post-SLI Colgan pilots?

Oh, come on. That was too easy!

 

[mesaba13]

Maybe he should go date of hire between Mesaba and Pinnacle down to a specified point considering the imminent downgrades towards the bottom half of the Mesaba list and also the fact that Mesaba brings 41 900's. Then start putting Colgan guys in somewhere (somewhere better than 1900). I don't mean to sound harsh but I think it would be fair to start the top 5% (30 pilots) of colgan pilots around the 150-200 list on the combined list. This would mean they would stay on their equipment and be senior on their equipment but not able to push the 15-20 year 9E and XJ guys out of the 900's.

I know most of us XJ guys are going to be passed up by some guys with less years, but what doesnt seem fair is being pased by somewhen with half the longevity. ie 10 year guy passing a 20 year guy or 5 year guy passing a 10 year guy.

 

[bri5150]

That's a bit harsh don't you think? If we're gonna be honest here then you should at least admit that if (and that is an if) 3407 has anything at all to do with why they wanted to lose the Colgan name in favor of XJ's then it's only because XJ has a clean accident history NOT because CJC's is soooo bad. It isn't. I'd even say it's better then Pinnacle's.

But you do give a fair assessment of the furloughs and down grades at Mesaba. They were and are eminent. Not tryin to hate, just speakin the facts.

He may give a fair assessment of Mesaba staffing, but he continues to leave out the fair assessment of the rest of the merger.

 

[Vertigo37]

Flyer: This is about an SLI. Not a contract, not news events, not management. SLI's usually upset folks---- there is nothing gained with that statement.

I want to talk to the Merger Reps before I make up my mind---- like it matters. In Bloch I Trust.

 

[Simon Says]

Please, oh, please let all of us get equally screwed. Every single one of us needs to realize we are all soon going to be working together. Lets all do the venting early and get it over with so we can all move on to working together as a 3000 strong pilot group. It is truly out of our hands. Let the chips fall where they may.

I am a senior Mesaba guy. I will be pissed for a certain amount of time and I will do my best to get over it as quickly as I can.

 

[bri5150]

Please, oh, please let all of us get equally screwed. Every single one of us needs to realize we are all soon going to be working together. Lets all do the venting early and get it over with so we can all move on to working together as a 3000 strong pilot group. It is truly out of our hands. Let the chips fall where they may.

I am a senior Mesaba guy. I will be pissed for a certain amount of time and I will do my best to get over it as quickly as I can.

I hear your "pissed" and raise you the fact we will all get over it soon. I don't think it will be as bad as we think it may be. Even if the worst happens, I am pretty sure it won't be that bad. There shouldn't be displacements, so we won't get booted out of our current positions until they no longer exist. The only way I will be pissed is if I can't hold a captain spot somewhere (which I could barely hold with all the Saabs gone). Just like shamruptcy was the catalyst for a lot of people dusting off the resume, this should be a catalyst for the same thing, whether or not SLI is "fair" or not.