PNCL: Class personified!! wow., just wow

[bri5150]

Status and Category Yes. Grouping the pilots and placing your pilots in the top 2 groups No.

Did either NWA or DAL group all of their pilots over the other? No. This is the failing of the proposed logic, not that they are integrated by Status (CA or FO) or Category (Crj900/Crj200/Q400/Sf340).

Even grouping people by category is kinda BS if you ask me. There are people junior to me on the jet in other bases. So, because I didn't want to commute, I may get punished in SLI? Not only that, I can't go lower than those guys because that is one of the hard fast rules. You can't jump seniority on your own list. Not only that, but I was seat locked for a round of jet upgrades because I took the first available Captain position. /sigh

 

[PCL_128]

bri, it doesn't matter what you actually bid in a status and category system, it matters what you could hold. They figure out the number of slots that each category should have, and then put people in those slots based upon an assumption that every pilot would bid for the highest category. What you're actually currently bidding doesn't matter.

 

[Flyer1015]

Wow, well then how about your sweet company record. The only reason why delta doesn't reduce your 200s is, because you guys already remove the airframes from service for them. Pinnacle has had more crews of what you just accused colgan of having(irresponsible and lack of discipline). Pinnacle has had a crew inaccurately managed a stalled aircraft and did not honor the sticker or pusher. When going after others I would first make sure your company isn't guilty of the same thing.

Nah, entirely different animal. Ours were two stupid guys who pushed the envelope because it was an empty plane, and they want too far. No denying that. Yours was a case of pilot incompetency, a pilot who lied on his application to get to where he was. Had he not lied, he wouldn't have been the CA that night on that plane. Both misused crew rooms as crashpads, and one irresonsibly commuted in overnight without any adequate rest to report well-rested for duty. The airplane, pure and simple, approached to stall and they dicked it up. Everyone onboard died, and one on the ground.

 

[Flyer1015]

I still do not see all the saabs gone and no matter who bought Mesaba or if Mesaba was able to go at it alone there would have been work for those saabs-as is evident now.

Some of you guys are the biggest in-denial pilots I know. Bottom line, the Saabs are hitting the desert, and at this moment, faster than the 200s. Your attacks on Pinnacle's 200 fleet being large is not relevant. What is relevant is the Saabs being parked. After Holdings bought Mesaba, 7 of your Saabs found flying for US Airways Express, arguably, Colgan flying before. Those 7 Saabs are under a one year contract, yes? I'd be a little hesitant to pop the champagne and say the Saabs have been saved.

 

[bri5150]

Some of you guys are the biggest in-denial pilots I know. Bottom line, the Saabs are hitting the desert, and at this moment, faster than the 200s. Your attacks on Pinnacle's 200 fleet being large is not relevant. What is relevant is the Saabs being parked. After Holdings bought Mesaba, 7 of your Saabs found flying for US Airways Express, arguably, Colgan flying before. Those 7 Saabs are under a one year contract, yes? I'd be a little hesitant to pop the champagne and say the Saabs have been saved.

I would be a little hesitant to pop the champagne and say the 200's won't be cut in the next couple years. Can you at least admit we are all "f"ed? Maybe we can agree on that.

 

[bri5150]

bri, it doesn't matter what you actually bid in a status and category system, it matters what you could hold. They figure out the number of slots that each category should have, and then put people in those slots based upon an assumption that every pilot would bid for the highest category. What you're actually currently bidding doesn't matter.

Thank you, that makes more sense.

 

[LanceAir]

And I'm surprised no one has said this yet: the Colgan merger committee just made a stupid decision by publishing these final stands 5 days before the final award comes out.

The overall tone sounds heavily on the "we were at least kinda fair, the other two (xj and 9e) were just waay out there with their ideas!" It has done NOTHING but create animosity, stir up emotions, and create a bad environment. Honestly, we don't need this. Colgan shouldn't have published this. Mesaba and Pinnacle were mature enough not to do it, Colgan should have too. Had they listened to Bloch, they wouldn't have done it, though nothing explicitly forbid them from doing so, common sense dictates not to publish this before the Bloch award. Historically, arbitrators put in their award the methods that each team proposed. This is included in the history/background explanation for the SLI by the arbitrator. By Colgan saying that they wanted this information out before the final award, so pilots can see what the positions are, I ask them, "why?" The positions WILL be posted in the final SLI document by Bloch. If you want to read it, simply start reading from page 1, and you will see the history/background/method of all 3 regionals BEFORE you get to the final SLI award.

Bad move, Colgan merger committee.

Well, maybe the CJC merger committee didn't have anything to hide?
It sounds like you might be embarrassed about your merger committee.
Maybe the CJCMC thought that the truth is what it is...the truth!

If it is going to be published in the final award, what is your heartburn over the CJC merger committee informing it's pilots about something that is already done, and will be reported on in a couple days?

It was released to inform CJC pilots, not for fodder on FI.

 

[snap145]

you XJ guys are always so quick to jump the gun and stab our 200 operation and claim "if we dont get our act together Delta's gonna ax it"...id like to think you are smarter than that...THIS IS NOT FREEDOM...its not 20 airplanes its over 100 50 seaters!!!..who is gonna compensate for that..ASA?? HA!...no offense Acey guys but I know you dont have the staffing or airframes for that...and if this is the case you should be just as afraid of that outcome as it now holds your fate too...last summer 9E management made the all time greatest f-up in the history of the regionals...in an effort to pinch pennies this airline was so horrifically understaffed most of us were down to 9 or 10 days off a month flying 95+ hour lines...it is not our responsability to staff the airline, forthermore it is not our responsability to properly maintain the aircraft...our 200's are the newest in the industry...and it is completley out of our hands if the dispatch reliability goes down...its just completley arrogant and irrational to place this on the back of the 9E pilot group...PS...just wait...it will happen to your "stable" 900 operation too...

 

[Flyprdu]

Well, maybe the CJC merger committee didn't have anything to hide?
It sounds like you might be embarrassed about your merger committee.
Maybe the CJCMC thought that the truth is what it is...the truth!

A more likely scenario is that Pinnacle and Mesaba understood that it would be like throwing a pipebomb into a club. Sheer pandemonium. Tensions are already high, we don't need your MEC children stoking the fires for no reason, whatsoever.

It was released to inform CJC pilots, not for fodder on FI.

Then it's worse than we feared.. they're naive, bordering on ignorant. How could anyone possibly send an email in this day and age, and not expect it to be everywhere within minutes? One of you moderates APC. There were at least 5 of you CJC guys chomping at the bit to post this email in every thread you could find on FI.

Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan thread.. "A Message from the Colgan Air Merger Committee"

Skywest President thread.. "A Message from the Colgan Air Merger Committee"

Freedom Air Questions.. "A Message from the Colgan Air Merger Committee"

So please.. cut the crap.

 

[bri5150]

you XJ guys are always so quick to jump the gun and stab our 200 operation and claim "if we dont get our act together Delta's gonna ax it"...id like to think you are smarter than that...THIS IS NOT FREEDOM...its not 20 airplanes its over 100 50 seaters!!!..who is gonna compensate for that..ASA?? HA!...no offense Acey guys but I know you dont have the staffing or airframes for that...and if this is the case you should be just as afraid of that outcome as it now holds your fate too...last summer 9E management made the all time greatest f-up in the history of the regionals...in an effort to pinch pennies this airline was so horrifically understaffed most of us were down to 9 or 10 days off a month flying 95+ hour lines...it is not our responsability to staff the airline, forthermore it is not our responsability to properly maintain the aircraft...our 200's are the newest in the industry...and it is completley out of our hands if the dispatch reliability goes down...its just completley arrogant and irrational to place this on the back of the 9E pilot group...PS...just wait...it will happen to your "stable" 900 operation too...

Do you have any idea what Delta has said? We are not saying if you don't get your numbers up you/we are going to lose them to another airline. We are saying Delta doesn't want them PERIOD. The fact you have 100+ of them IS the problem. How many total 200's does Delta want? Split that number by what, five airlines? I bet in Delta's world they want a total of less than 100 of them. That's what we are saying. Not that you will lose them to another airline. I bet there is some type of ratio offered (for example 3 200 losses to 1 900/700 airframe from Comair when it is shut down (I honest to god hope Comair doesn't get shut down)) ala ASA's way of getting the 900's destined for Mesaba (which was to prevent furloughs there and caused furloughs at Mesaba, thanks Delta. Oh, and they didn't lose the 200's either. They just flew them over to Vietnam). That is the only way I can see Pinnacolaba retaining some pilot jobs in the coming years. I still don't see how we can retain enough flying for 2,500 pilots, and nobody has came up with an idea on how it's going to happen. If you aren't top 1,000 after SLI, I am pretty sure you should be looking at moving on. Of course, don't make your career decision based on my logic though.