PNCL: Class personified!! wow., just wow

[jynxyjericho]

The facts weren't distorted but they were incomplete. The only thing reported were the final positions but that doesn't give any clue to how the negotiation went. I've been hearing some pretty wild things about what was proposed during the negotiating process. The one that takes the cake was that Mesaba proposed a date of hire integration with both of the other groups but all Mesaba pilots would have their hire dates moved up 5-6 years with 7 year fences that not only encompassed Mesaba flying but also some of Pinnacle's too. This would pretty much staple Colgan and most of Pinnacle and ensure that nobody but former Mesaba pilots would have a chance at advancement.

While the intention from the CJC committee may have been pure, they botched it up big time and put everyone at each others throats.

I heard Pinnacle management was just happy to have a pilot group that wouldn't play angry birds in negotiations. Pinnacle management actually proposed that one and begged us please to fly their planes around for 66 years without plowing in or bending one up. I can't help it if your own company will go broke buying other companies in the hope they can dilute the pinnacle pilot group down with quality individuals.

Now you see, that piece above is called being a dick. No one likes a dick. Stop being a dick DoingTime (oh yeah, me too I suppose).

 

[CptMurf]

So in one thread you post this...

I don't get why the Mesaba pilots on this board have no clue as to what even happened in '97. If you weren't there and you don't know, just keep your trap shut. Your speculation only makes you more confused.

Then in another you post this...

The facts weren't distorted but they were incomplete. The only thing reported were the final positions but that doesn't give any clue to how the negotiation went. I've been hearing some pretty wild things about what was proposed during the negotiating process. The one that takes the cake was that Mesaba proposed a date of hire integration with both of the other groups but all Mesaba pilots would have their hire dates moved up 5-6 years with 7 year fences that not only encompassed Mesaba flying but also some of Pinnacle's too. This would pretty much staple Colgan and most of Pinnacle and ensure that nobody but former Mesaba pilots would have a chance at advancement.

While the intention from the CJC committee may have been pure, they botched it up big time and put everyone at each others throats.

If you weren't in the SLI negotiations, and have evidence to back up your claims, then why don't you heed your own advice.

 

[silver02ex]

Coming from a Pinnacle pilot. Who cares who bought who. It's out of our hands. We knew it would be out of our hands a long time ago. Does it really matter anymore. I'm going to punch the next person that I fly with who says "This is how it should be, or I got screwed" blah blah blah

 

[suupah]

The facts weren't distorted but they were incomplete. The only thing reported were the final positions but that doesn't give any clue to how the negotiation went. I've been hearing some pretty wild things about what was proposed during the negotiating process. The one that takes the cake was that Mesaba proposed a date of hire integration with both of the other groups but all Mesaba pilots would have their hire dates moved up 5-6 years with 7 year fences that not only encompassed Mesaba flying but also some of Pinnacle's too. This would pretty much staple Colgan and most of Pinnacle and ensure that nobody but former Mesaba pilots would have a chance at advancement.

While the intention from the CJC committee may have been pure, they botched it up big time and put everyone at each others throats.

I believe that was early on. It was more of an opening argument which is where you probably get all the crazy proposals.
I believe their final proposal was logical, reasonable and representative of their greater pilot groups wishes.

 

[DoinTime]

I believe that was early on. It was more of an opening argument which is where you probably get all the crazy proposals.
I believe their final proposal was logical, reasonable and representative of their greater pilot groups wishes.

If it was logical and reasonable then why didn't the CJC or PCL committees accept it?

 

[suupah]

In CJC's case we had a logicler/reasonabler proposal

where as PCL decided to drop a :bomb: because they hate everyone.

 

[higney85]

Everyone has all the opinions but screw up a big detail. Everyone keeps saying "PNCL" when they are actually talking about PCL. We are all under one company- that's Corp. We are all "PNCL" pilots. If you have a problem with 9E pilots, at least use the correct lingo- PCL. All 3 groups don't like each other's proposals because each is "selfish". Well, all 3 MEC's represented their pilots. Now all 3 groups will undoubteldy be angry when the list comes out. I guess that means it was done right. We can't get angry when the game is over, this game is done and awaiting it's sportscenter highlight real. It should be available in full rebroadcast on the 20th. We all will (most likely) then have a 10 page "monday morning QB" routine to follow.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Typical. A bunch of teenagers that couldn't hold their loads.

Don't worry, I'll get a towel.

I routinely lasted 45-55 minutes when I was 17-19 so I don't think you can lump me into that same "category"

It's even better now that I've matured.

 

[dingo222]

I routinely lasted 45-55 minutes when I was 17-19 so I don't think you can lump me into that same "category"

It's even better now that I've matured.

masturbating to victorias secret doesn't count

 

[johnpeace]

Coming soon to a Super Regional near you...

 

[xjhawk]

The reason they could not come to an agreement is that the individual MEC's are bound to only accept what is best for their pilots. Any compromise to "give" to another pilot group screws a portion of their pilots-putting the negotiators in a bad place. It is best so they do not have the future label as a bad negotiator is have an arbitrator complete the process-even though the arbitrator wants some sort of compromise. And when you look at the first proposals and think they are outlandish-well that (sadly) is how negotiations go. You start from one end and work towards a less acceptable (but still acceptable) compromise. So by starting out with DOH with fences and DOH credit (this is all speculation from a previous post) would hopefully lead them to DOH-which is apparently what they wanted.

 

[xjhawk]

I would have to think any Pinnacle pilot would be happy with DOH-to a lesser extent most Mesba pilots would be okay with it too. The unfair sticking point is career expectations for the Colgan pilots. Something needs to be done to accommodate them, and the only way to do it without giving them a huge windfall (great contract and seniority) is to do DOH with Fences to protect their current positions. The unrealistic sticking point to DOH is un idiotic position the Pinnacle MEC and negotiators who think they were the acquiring airline and they deserve nothing less than huge gains in seniority. If they get that-the Arbitrator is out of his mind-if Colgan gets protection as in fences-acceptable

 

[Flyer1015]

I would have to think any Pinnacle pilot would be happy with DOH-to a lesser extent most Mesba pilots would be okay with it too. The unfair sticking point is career expectations for the Colgan pilots. Something needs to be done to accommodate them, and the only way to do it without giving them a huge windfall (great contract and seniority) is to do DOH with Fences to protect their current positions. The unrealistic sticking point to DOH is un idiotic position the Pinnacle MEC and negotiators who think they were the acquiring airline and they deserve nothing less than huge gains in seniority. If they get that-the Arbitrator is out of his mind-if Colgan gets protection as in fences-acceptable

Dumb proposal. If that's the case, Colgan pilots would get their flying protected with the fence, ensuring their movements (upgrades, base transfer) are within their own Colgan house. On the other hand, with just DOH and no fences for 9E/XJ, you will have tons of stale XJ FOs start upgrading, leaving any 9E FO hired 2007 and onwards in the dust while the stale XJ FOs enjoy their first upgrades in 3+ years. Yeah, sounds fair to me!

 

[bri5150]

Dumb proposal. If that's the case, Colgan pilots would get their flying protected with the fence, ensuring their movements (upgrades, base transfer) are within their own Colgan house. On the other hand, with just DOH and no fences for 9E/XJ, you will have tons of stale XJ FOs start upgrading, leaving any 9E FO hired 2007 and onwards in the dust while the stale XJ FOs enjoy their first upgrades in 3+ years. Yeah, sounds fair to me!

If it's DOH with no fences for 9E/XJ, how will an '07 9E FO be left in the dust while an '08 XJ FO gets to upgrade? Am I missing something? Do you even know what you are writing?

 

[Flyer1015]

If it's DOH with no fences for 9E/XJ, how will an '07 9E FO be left in the dust while an '08 XJ FO gets to upgrade? Am I missing something? Do you even know what you are writing?

Yes you are missing something. Because it won't be the '08 XJ FOs upgrading, it will be the ones before that. Mesabas FOs, overall, are more senior than Pinnacle FOs. The most recent Pinnacle upgrade went to a DOH of March 2007. What's the most junior XJ upgrade? Oh wait, you haven't had one (save the LGA Saab) for almost 3 years. How many countless FOs are at XJ from 2004-2007 who are just waiting at their opportunity for upgrading? I got news for you: if Mesaba was a stand alone carrier, they would not be upgrading. With less and less Saabs as time goes on, you'd be looking at furloughs and downgrades. Even if the US Air Saabs stick for a long time, you'd be down to 60 RJs and 7 Saabs at LGA. That's 67 planes. Your list of the current 1,070 or so would dwindle down even further. No matter which way you look at it, this merger, and especially this one list, is a savior for Mesaba. I'd hate to look at XJ with only 60 RJs by 2012 if you were a stand-alone carrier. And guess what? Delta owned you before PNCL holdings bought you. Do you know Delta does to its wholly owned carriers? Just ask sister Comair..............