bluejuice787
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2005
- Posts
- 226
Are you kidding? If not this then what? These guys literally have their respective lives on the line and you refuse to help?!
Shame on you.
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Please Help Pilots Stuck In Brazil
- Thread starter CAL EWR B737
- Start date
- Watchers 34
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Are you kidding? If not this then what? These guys literally have their respective lives on the line and you refuse to help?!
Shame on you.
Longhorn
Evil Genius
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Posts
- 1,294
Geez guys, relax. Ill stick it then!! Are you happy now. God, I cannot make anyone happy. If I stick it someone bitches, if I dont then I hear it as well!!Bluejuice
Its not that I refuse to help, I can assure you of that. I was willing to make sure it was at the top all the time and would have made the effort to personally go out of my way to send it back to the top if it slipped. So, you say I refuse to help after I was personally going to gaurd it....your are way off on your assumptions. I did not want to stick it because from this end, we will get a ton of request for everything else to be stuck. I do agree that it deserves to be stuck on the top until this is resolved. So, as requested, its stuck to the top until this issue is resolved, and I hope it happens soon. Sorry to sound so upset but I have been on the battle ground with crew services tonight, and you know how that goes!!
Last edited:
CAL EWR B737
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2005
- Posts
- 652
Stuck in a Bureaucratic Jungle after Landing a Crippled Jet
By JOE SHARKEY
Published: November 21, 2006
FIFTY-THREE days.
That’s how long two American pilots, Joe Lepore and Jan Paladino, have been detained in Brazil after a horrendous midair collision 37,000 feet over the Amazon on Sept. 29 that sent 154 people on a civilian airliner to their deaths. The two American pilots and five passengers, including me, were on a Legacy 600 private jet that collided with the bigger Gol Airlines 737. Inexplicably, we walked away unhurt after an emergency landing at a jungle air base.
Mr. Lepore, 42, and Mr. Paladino, 34, are holed up in a hotel in Rio de Janeiro, where they are essentially confined to their rooms to avoid the public because the reaction to the accident has had a strong element of anti-Americanism. They work for ExcelAire Service, a Ronkonkoma, N.Y., air charter company that had just taken delivery of the $25 million jet from the Brazilian aircraft manufacturer Embraer. It was being flown home to New York when the collision occurred. No charges have been filed against the pilots, nor has any evidence of culpability been produced. Yet on Friday, a Brazilian judge denied the pilots’ latest request to have their passports returned and said they must remain in Brazil till the government’s secret investigation concludes, which Brazilian authorities say could take at least 10 more months. Last Thursday, the Brazilian Air Force, responsible for both operating the country’s air traffic control system and investigating aviation accidents, released a preliminary report saying it was “premature” to assign blame. The report confirmed that the Legacy was cleared by air traffic control to fly at 37,000 feet, despite a written flight plan that assigned it to a different altitude near the impact point. Air traffic control instructions always take precedence over a written flight plan. After the crash, Brazilian Air Force officials and other authorities made assertions that the American pilots were doing illegal aerial stunt maneuvers to show off the new plane when the collision occurred. I have no idea where they got that idea, but the charges got an awful lot of mileage in the Brazilian and world news media. I have consistently testified and otherwise stated and written that the Legacy was flying steadily, in an entirely normal manner, when the impact occurred. There is no mention of the aerial stunt maneuvers in the preliminary report. Officials from the International Civil Aviation Organization, based in Canada, and the National Transportation Safety Board in the United States conducted independent investigations. Their focus has been on whether the crash was mainly caused by a series of human and technological failures in Brazil’s air traffic control system. The Legacy, cockpit tapes show, made 19 unsuccessful attempts to reach air traffic control before the collision. And as numerous international pilots have told me, there are radio and radar gaps and dead zones, especially over the Amazon. Furthermore (and this is a fact that was omitted from the Air Force’s preliminary report), the Gol 737’s flight plan called for it to be at 41,000 feet at the point where the two planes collided. But air traffic control instructed the 737 to fly at 37,000 feet. After the crash, there was turmoil in Brazilian air traffic control. Controllers, protesting what they called unsafe working conditions, staged a work slowdown that caused major delays. Ten controllers at centers in Brasília and Manaus at the time of impact initially refused to testify before the Air Force, citing psychological trauma. They began testifying yesterday. The full truth will eventually come out, but outside investigators are questioning whether the Brazilians are dragging their feet to avoid assigning blame to their air traffic control system. Investigators from the United States and Canada are not allowed to publish findings before the Brazilian investigation concludes. But the aviation industry has begun to speak out. The International Federation of Air Line Pilots’ Associations issued a statement last week saying, “Only contradictory facts, rumor and unsupported allegations have been forthcoming from Brazilian government officials.” There is “no valid reason for the continued detention” of the pilots, it said. Robert Torricella, a lawyer for ExcelAire, agreed. “Enough is enough,” he said. Robert Mark, a former airline and corporate pilot and air traffic controller who heads an aviation consulting company called CommAvia, said he was worried about the precedent being set in world aviation. “The Brazilians just grabbed these guys from another country and are keeping them in detention without probable cause,” Mr. Mark said. “Why aren’t more people expressing concern about the effects this could have, in that some other countries start grabbing people for whatever real or imagined reason?”
E-mail: [email protected]
By JOE SHARKEY
Published: November 21, 2006
FIFTY-THREE days.
That’s how long two American pilots, Joe Lepore and Jan Paladino, have been detained in Brazil after a horrendous midair collision 37,000 feet over the Amazon on Sept. 29 that sent 154 people on a civilian airliner to their deaths. The two American pilots and five passengers, including me, were on a Legacy 600 private jet that collided with the bigger Gol Airlines 737. Inexplicably, we walked away unhurt after an emergency landing at a jungle air base.
Mr. Lepore, 42, and Mr. Paladino, 34, are holed up in a hotel in Rio de Janeiro, where they are essentially confined to their rooms to avoid the public because the reaction to the accident has had a strong element of anti-Americanism. They work for ExcelAire Service, a Ronkonkoma, N.Y., air charter company that had just taken delivery of the $25 million jet from the Brazilian aircraft manufacturer Embraer. It was being flown home to New York when the collision occurred. No charges have been filed against the pilots, nor has any evidence of culpability been produced. Yet on Friday, a Brazilian judge denied the pilots’ latest request to have their passports returned and said they must remain in Brazil till the government’s secret investigation concludes, which Brazilian authorities say could take at least 10 more months. Last Thursday, the Brazilian Air Force, responsible for both operating the country’s air traffic control system and investigating aviation accidents, released a preliminary report saying it was “premature” to assign blame. The report confirmed that the Legacy was cleared by air traffic control to fly at 37,000 feet, despite a written flight plan that assigned it to a different altitude near the impact point. Air traffic control instructions always take precedence over a written flight plan. After the crash, Brazilian Air Force officials and other authorities made assertions that the American pilots were doing illegal aerial stunt maneuvers to show off the new plane when the collision occurred. I have no idea where they got that idea, but the charges got an awful lot of mileage in the Brazilian and world news media. I have consistently testified and otherwise stated and written that the Legacy was flying steadily, in an entirely normal manner, when the impact occurred. There is no mention of the aerial stunt maneuvers in the preliminary report. Officials from the International Civil Aviation Organization, based in Canada, and the National Transportation Safety Board in the United States conducted independent investigations. Their focus has been on whether the crash was mainly caused by a series of human and technological failures in Brazil’s air traffic control system. The Legacy, cockpit tapes show, made 19 unsuccessful attempts to reach air traffic control before the collision. And as numerous international pilots have told me, there are radio and radar gaps and dead zones, especially over the Amazon. Furthermore (and this is a fact that was omitted from the Air Force’s preliminary report), the Gol 737’s flight plan called for it to be at 41,000 feet at the point where the two planes collided. But air traffic control instructed the 737 to fly at 37,000 feet. After the crash, there was turmoil in Brazilian air traffic control. Controllers, protesting what they called unsafe working conditions, staged a work slowdown that caused major delays. Ten controllers at centers in Brasília and Manaus at the time of impact initially refused to testify before the Air Force, citing psychological trauma. They began testifying yesterday. The full truth will eventually come out, but outside investigators are questioning whether the Brazilians are dragging their feet to avoid assigning blame to their air traffic control system. Investigators from the United States and Canada are not allowed to publish findings before the Brazilian investigation concludes. But the aviation industry has begun to speak out. The International Federation of Air Line Pilots’ Associations issued a statement last week saying, “Only contradictory facts, rumor and unsupported allegations have been forthcoming from Brazilian government officials.” There is “no valid reason for the continued detention” of the pilots, it said. Robert Torricella, a lawyer for ExcelAire, agreed. “Enough is enough,” he said. Robert Mark, a former airline and corporate pilot and air traffic controller who heads an aviation consulting company called CommAvia, said he was worried about the precedent being set in world aviation. “The Brazilians just grabbed these guys from another country and are keeping them in detention without probable cause,” Mr. Mark said. “Why aren’t more people expressing concern about the effects this could have, in that some other countries start grabbing people for whatever real or imagined reason?”
E-mail: [email protected]
CAL EWR B737
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2005
- Posts
- 652
You know these guys in Central and south america it is to be expected. I spent some time flying in a country that is both in South and North America (geography experts). Everybody down there loves to point the finger. Case in point I was copilot on a single engine aircraft down there we took off out of a private airstrip and as soon as we hit 700 feet all hell broke loose. I was flying the aircraft so I turned it around to get back to the airstrip as the engine was shaking itself to death, it soon quit prop at 12 and 6. We ended up in a very wet field (trees river or sugar cane we choose the flat field) bleeding (the pilot was knocked out for a bit). Cut to the chase the person that did the overhaul on the engine put some parts in backwards. We were intially told we ran out of fuel until (we left full and burned about :20) parts started falling out of the engine once it was back to the airport. Nobody likes to except responsibiliy and thats not to say we don't do that in the States (we do). Another story. Had a buddy that was flying down there (US airforce pilot in a civ aircraft) he calls 5 to the east lands. He is met by police at gun point. He is taken into custody threaten for his life because he flew over a conference that a president was at. Well if you knew the situation before you take off you get a briefing face to face. (nobody ever mentioned it) and the tower never said a thing. Turns out after the fact people were following him and he was forced to pay a fine to let him loose after he was released. This stuff does happen and just relieze when your in a different country your in a different country. I say we get the press involved. Maybe O Reilly. (or somebody else for the haters). Sorry for the gramatical errors and spelling. (but I'm heated)
Thanks
Thanks
glasspilot1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2004
- Posts
- 398
Tcas?
Well, that explains why the 737 didn't get a TCAS alert. Sounds like Embrear (sp) might have some liability here; releasing a brand new airplane with out the transponder working?
Well, that explains why the 737 didn't get a TCAS alert. Sounds like Embrear (sp) might have some liability here; releasing a brand new airplane with out the transponder working?
That was weak...wish I had them on my side (NOT!). I guess the co-pilot must have been from TWA.
Way to stick up for your boys!!!
Later,
scoreboard
Please keep moving...
- Joined
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ultrarunner
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 4,322
I would say that the entire transponder went dead sometime before the collision since it's been reported by NTSB that the 737 got no alert at all. If the transponder was even giving off primary target, the 73 would have gotten a primary target traffic alert.
Interesting....
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