Pinnacle pilots can do better

[JoeMerchant]

Keep in mind the senior leadership- specifically one of the ones that was recalled- stated that "rigs are a bad thing." ...among many other gems.

Just curious..Did he give a reason for that belief?

 

[BoilerUP]

Just curious..Did he give a reason for that belief?

Ignorance, negligence, or a bad case of "I do not think it means what you think it means"?

 

[dondk]

Just curious..Did he give a reason for that belief?

the version I heard a while back was rigs meant the company can't give 4 days 28 hours trips or two 2 day trips worth 14.5 each. Rigs would require more time at work (less productive) and less time at home. The flip was while it may provide higher pay to the whole group, it would inhibit the pay of those who could hold those super productive trips.

 

[JoeMerchant]

the version I heard a while back was rigs meant the company can't give 4 days 28 hours trips or two 2 day trips worth 14.5 each. Rigs would require more time at work (less productive) and less time at home. The flip was while it may provide higher pay to the whole group, it would inhibit the pay of those who could hold those super productive trips.

That's what I was wondering....There is a case to be made for that...

 

[Quack]

Wow you just got block or better...welcome to the 21st century. I sure hope the pncl guys aren't cheering because they finally got rid of the :15 min of free flying each leg. I was there and know the $hit you guys have been put through. The contract you sign, even though you may not plan on it now, will be the contract for the next 10 yrs there even though it says 5 yrs on the cover. Look at what has been done with the current one. Please vote NO!

 

[1.3XVso]

Don't say anything like that on airlinkpilots, otherwise you'll get 3 pages of gushing about how our union volunteers walk on water and should be treated like gods...

I had a union negotiator in my recurrent class (end of March 09), he had been bought out of every single trip since Jan 2009. What were they doing during all that time?

Im very thankful of most of the volunteers at 9E. But now the sun is shining on the mem leadership and its all making sense to our current TA. This TA benefits all senior pilots in the company. No difference almost at all compared to the old contract. Im voting no and the bonus is a faking joke. These senior faks were capt and busting out 20 days off while the contract was amendable but yet fake or better yet snake gordon was throwing down the W2 method for the bonus. I knew he was out next to be recalled. He should be ashamed and the rest of the mem cronies.

 

[dondk]

Im very thankful of most of the volunteers at 9E. But now the sun is shining on the mem leadership and its all making sense to our current TA. This TA benefits all senior pilots in the company. No difference almost at all compared to the old contract. Im voting no and the bonus is a faking joke. These senior faks were capt and busting out 20 days off while the contract was amendable but yet fake or better yet snake gordon was throwing down the W2 method for the bonus. I knew he was out next to be recalled. He should be ashamed and the rest of the mem cronies.

all will say is smoke and mirrors... with the OLD leadership AND the NEW leadership.

I have never claimed to be a WG supporter, but he did do some good things. What you are seeing/reading is bigger than just him. You need to focus on all of the players. If you don't, you will just inherit the snake that is hiding below the smoke and behind the mirror.

There is a lot of good volunteers, many have done a lot of good for the pilots. Then there are the rest that are crooks and out for themselves. It starts at the top you know, not at the bottom.

One other thing, on the W2 method, you know who was on the compensation committee? Did you really expect a fair shake when the internal MEC creates a subcommittee and is making the recommendations?



The 9E leadership mirrors nonconnah, where else did they learn to be this way?

 

[WWEfan]

That's what I was wondering....There is a case to be made for that...

Duty rigs make a lot more sense at the regional level than mainline. The regionals typically fly shorter legs so it takes 4, 5 or 6 legs to make a day "productive". Even with short breaks between all those legs that leads to some long freakin days. A mainline crew can knock out 8 hours of flying in 1 or 2 legs and keep their duty respectable.

Not to say you cant have a productive 4 day trip with 28 hours of block and minimal legs at ASA, but it would be the exception and certainly not the norm. At least with all those 14 hour scheduled duty days we are guaranteed a full 8 hrs of pay.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

when I was there, one captain was trying to convince me that block or better is a bad thing. He spent a leg from SDF-MSP trying to tell me that we made more money by NOT having block or better. I don't know about that, but at my new airline, I generally overblock about 4 hours a month. 5 minutes here, 5 minutes there, and it all adds up.

Vote no, Pinnacle pilots

Nice username! Enjoying one of those right now myself. I hope life after Pineapple is treating you very well.

I've read a bit more of the contract... there are minimal improvements in the contract and many many concessions.

Reserves and junior people under the new contract will actually have a better life under the old contract, if you can even imagine.

All night highspeeds with unlimited legs, 2.7 hours per day for vacation pay instead of 3.75 hrs, being dropped back onto reserve after flying, 14 hour airport reserve... still 10 day off minimum.... who the crap wrote that piece of junk??

Oh.... and my personal favorite. It allows the over 60 guys to return at their previous seniority!
Absolutely unbelieveable. Vote no!

 

[JustaNumber]

I've read a bit more of the contract... there are minimal improvements in the contract and many many concessions.

Reserves and junior people under the new contract will actually have a better life under the old contract, if you can even imagine.

All night highspeeds with unlimited legs, 2.7 hours per day for vacation pay instead of 3.75 hrs, being dropped back onto reserve after flying, 14 hour airport reserve... still 10 day off minimum.... who the crap wrote that piece of junk??

Oh.... and my personal favorite. It allows the over 60 guys to return at their previous seniority!
Absolutely unbelieveable. Vote no!

I thought it was substandard before I read that crap. I will personally start the "PNCL sucks!" campaign if you guys vote that joke in.

 

[JoeMerchant]

So is ALPA "taking it back"..? The only thing ALPA delivers is slogans...

 

[sinkrate]

All night highspeeds with unlimited legs, 2.7 hours per day for vacation pay instead of 3.75 hrs, being dropped back onto reserve after flying, 14 hour airport reserve... still 10 day off minimum.... who the crap wrote that piece of junk??

All wrong.
-CDO's cannot be front loaded or back loaded any more
-The on duty break for CDO's was increased from five to six hours
-Pay for a week of vacation actually increased
-Airport reserve was reduced to 9 hours
-No pilot can be taken below the contractual min days off any more. That was the single most common complaint of junior pilots

I have not seen one single factually correct piece of information in this thread. All I see is a bunch of angry at management pilots rationalizing a 'no' vote.

 

[Tarzan]

All wrong.
-CDO's cannot be front loaded or back loaded any more
-The on duty break for CDO's was increased from five to six hours
-Pay for a week of vacation actually increased
-Airport reserve was reduced to 9 hours
-No pilot can be taken below the contractual min days off any more. That was the single most common complaint of junior pilots

I have not seen one single factually correct piece of information in this thread. All I see is a bunch of angry at management pilots rationalizing a 'no' vote.

Okay, post some pay rates and duty rigs then.

 

[dondk]

All wrong.
-CDO's cannot be front loaded or back loaded any more
-The on duty break for CDO's was increased from five to six hours
-Pay for a week of vacation actually increased
-Airport reserve was reduced to 9 hours
-No pilot can be taken below the contractual min days off any more. That was the single most common complaint of junior pilots

I have not seen one single factually correct piece of information in this thread. All I see is a bunch of angry at management pilots rationalizing a 'no' vote.

Not 100% correct, if you really want to split hairs. A pilot can be DHD, operate to domicile THEN CDO and it is compliant. It can be front loaded, back loaded would have to be more creative. The language says "operate", a dhd is not operating.

In certain circumstances, a RSV can be taking below min day, so that is not 100 accurate either. Certain extensions cannot be denied anymore, if out of domicile, you are more open to extension and you have no refusal option.

Junior assignments, whoppee you can decline them, but now everyone has to take at least 6 per year. Plus any JA over 48 hours is fair game. You saved the junior pilots but threw the other 85% under the bus.

Vacations went up from 18.75 to 18.9. Wow, .15 or about 9 MINUTES more pay PER WEEK. The super senior get a whopping 36 more minutes of pay for 4 weeks of vacation. The 9 minutes more pay is worth the vacation slides?

all in all, I would agree there are some improvements, are there enough to warrant the 5 years it took? That is for the 1200+ pilots to decide.

 

[sinkrate]

Not 100% correct, if you really want to split hairs. A pilot can be DHD, operate to domicile THEN CDO and it is compliant. It can be front loaded, back loaded would have to be more creative. The language says "operate", a dhd is not operating.

The definitions section is specific. The limit is two legs prior to the on duty break and two legs after the on duty break - no matter where in the AC you sit.

In certain circumstances, a RSV can be taking below min day, so that is not 100 accurate either.

Not correct. No pilot can be extended into a day off.

Certain extensions cannot be denied anymore, if out of domicile, you are more open to extension and you have no refusal option.

You still get home the same day

Junior assignments, whoppee you can decline them, but now everyone has to take at least 6 per year. Plus any JA over 48 hours is fair game.

???? No one can be junior assigned more than 48 hours prior to the report time of the trip. Plus they can not junior assign into a single duty day with days off either side. Do the math. They can only tag you for an assignment immediately following a trip.

You saved the junior pilots but threw the other 85% under the bus.

Vacations went up from 18.75 to 18.9. Wow, .15 or about 9 MINUTES more pay PER WEEK. The super senior get a whopping 36 more minutes of pay for 4 weeks of vacation. The 9 minutes more pay is worth the vacation slides?

all in all, I would agree there are some improvements, are there enough to warrant the 5 years it took? That is for the 1200+ pilots to decide.

It has been four years and 3 months.

 

[dondk]

The definitions section is specific. The limit is two legs prior to the on duty break and two legs after the on duty break - no matter where in the AC you sit.

Vote YES and see what DW says. Dollars to donuts this will be a grievance, his position has always been DHD is "not flying"

Not correct. No pilot can be extended into a day off.

A reserve pilot whose assignment ends on a previously scheduled day off for reasons beyond the Company's control will be entitled to extension premium credits earned on such day, plus a five (5) hour pay credit for the first day below minimum days off.

if they cannot be extended, why have the language? As I stated in could happen. The operative word is "could". Don't make the BOLD statement it cannot happen. It can, and more than likely it will be an extension, it should NOT be anything else.

You still get home the same day

true, very true. as long as it is before midnight. Define home, is that your home or the domicile? With more than 50% of the pilots being commuters, the extension language does not help them if tagged out of domicile and held out of domicile. That is the issue. Do through flying to another hub/focus city and you are fair game for an extension that cannot be refused.

???? No one can be junior assigned more than 48 hours prior to the report time of the trip. Plus they can not junior assign into a single duty day with days off either side. Do the math. They can only tag you for an assignment immediately following a trip.

I will concede to that, (reading earlier language) The current book does not compel a pilot to a JA, the new language compels you. While this does protect the junior pilot with 11 days off or less, it hurts anyone senior that is not on a 30/7 bubble or near a vacation. The only plus is it appears no one will ever be JA's into a CDO

It has been four years and 3 months.

Actually, Wake and company started section 6 six months early as allowed. We started negotiations in December 2004. Thus, it is 4 years and almost 10 months, slightly closer to 5 years, but what is a couple of months anyway

The original team, Wake, Ball, Blizzard and one other I think. Then Pimpkin, and Bruckno when Ball and Wake stepped aside on or about May 2005. The next team started in late '06 and the current team in early '07.

Since most of these issues are Section 25, are you defending Section 25 as the best of the TA? I agree, there are some improvements...
Section 25 was TA'd on March '06, more than 3 years ago and this is the best it can be??

Then simply Vote YES for the TA.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

All wrong.
-CDO's cannot be front loaded or back loaded any more
-The on duty break for CDO's was increased from five to six hours
-Pay for a week of vacation actually increased
-Airport reserve was reduced to 9 hours
-No pilot can be taken below the contractual min days off any more. That was the single most common complaint of junior pilots

I have not seen one single factually correct piece of information in this thread. All I see is a bunch of angry at management pilots rationalizing a 'no' vote.

Hello, Kool-aid man!

The "hours of service" section states that the on duty break on CDO's is "scheduled only." And I quote:

c. A CDO shall contain a scheduled break of no less than six (6)
hours. (m)
d. Except for a CDO reserve pilot, a CDO for which the pilot has
received less than 48 hours notice will contain a break of no
less than six (6) hours.

Good luck with their interpretation of that.



I was a bit off in regards to the airport reserve.... now airport reserve+home reserve cannot exceed 14 hours instead of 12. Enjoy! Not to mention having to go back on reserve after flying.

You can still be taken below your min days off...

Are you really trying to justify the "4 years and 3 months" it took to get this turd?

 

[FutureHeavyAC]

Pay rates? Bonus info? Not much from my pinnacle buds on this one so Im wondering why they are so quiet......

 

[dondk]

The initial 50 seat rate is the average of:

Air Wisconsin
American Eagle
ASA
Comair
Express Jet
Mesa
Mesaba
PSA
Republic
Skywest
TSA

The initial 76 seat rates are the average of:

ASA
Comair
Compass
Mesaba
Republic
Skywest

44-59 seat turbojet CA:

57.38
59.68
61.96
64.01
65.94
67.93
69.98
72.10
74.33
76.62
78.83
81.37
83.76
86.24
88.25
89.98
91.68
93.29

FO:
23.11
32.15
35.06
36.83
37.84
38.69
39.47
40.05


60-76 turbojet CA:
61.27
63.10
65.73
67.70
69.39
71.52
73.72
75.91
78.57
81.31
83.78
86.48
89.02
91.77
94.52
97.07
99.55
102.09

FO:
25.73
34.48
36.81
38.33
39.30
40.26
41.25
42.03
42.06
42.08
42.08
42.08
42.08
42.08
43.07
44.03
44.93
45.96

Regardless, it is industry average nothing else. No COLA increases, just DOS increases between 1-3% depending on the "average"

Bonus split into 2 payments, 5 million per payment.

Bottom line, current book with 3% COLA for the last 5 years with 2-4 bucks thrown on top will give you the rates if signed

 

[Ridgeback]

You fought this hard for "average pay rates" and way below average work rules????

Let me be the first to say it

Pinnacle SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get some self respect and a bit of self worth and vote this POS down....