Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan SLI!

[xjgearbtch]

Most (if not all) of them were renamed when they went to Mesaba. For example:

N321PX = N31XJ

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-sf3-31.htm

Mesaba took over direct operation of aircraft that were being operated by Express I. It was a near seamless transfer of assets. Only difference was that the former pilots had to surrender half to two thirds of their longevity to keep operating them.

Never knew that the old A models were transferred. Thanks for the insight.

 

[CptMurf]

Most (if not all) of them were renamed when they went to Mesaba. For example:

N321PX = N31XJ

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-sf3-31.htm

Mesaba took over direct operation of aircraft that were being operated by Express I. It was a near seamless transfer of assets. Only difference was that the former pilots had to surrender half to two thirds of their longevity to keep operating them.

I did not realize this about the A models either, the N number change lead to the confusion. I started pulling up A model N numbers and found a few that were transferred, but about an equal number that don't show a previous ownership. Do you know exactly how many were transferred? Or who owned the aircraft or leases? NWA or 9E? I know all the B+'s came from the factory to XJ.

Doesn't really change any of my previous thoughts on the LOA. The pilots were awarded a job and longevity to come to XJ. At a loss of seniority to some XJs at the time. Had they stayed at 9E they would've been furloughed. Did you offer Freedom a deal like this when you took their airplanes? I would have been happy to take the 2-1 deal in 2002, instead of downgrading. I bet some FOs at the time would have taken the deal instead of being furloughed at the time too.

 

[bri5150]

Most (if not all) of them were renamed when they went to Mesaba. For example:

N321PX = N31XJ

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-sf3-31.htm

Mesaba took over direct operation of aircraft that were being operated by Express I. It was a near seamless transfer of assets. Only difference was that the former pilots had to surrender half to two thirds of their longevity to keep operating them.

Don't forget the difference that Mesaba didn't buy Express. That is a BIG difference. Again, if ASA were awarded 50 of your 200's tomorrow, would you expect any type of seniority given to you? Absolutely not. That is what happened at Mesaba back then though.

 

[DoinTime]

Don't forget the difference that Mesaba didn't buy Express. That is a BIG difference.

According to you, Pinnacle Airlines, Inc didn't buy Mesaba either.

Again, if ASA were awarded 50 of your 200's tomorrow, would you expect any type of seniority given to you? Absolutely not. That is what happened at Mesaba back then though.

Absolutely they should engage in ALPA fragmentation policy. Thats what its there for.

 

[DoinTime]

Do you know exactly how many were transferred?

It was either 10 or 11 Saabs. With another 11 in 2002.

Did you offer Freedom a deal like this when you took their airplanes?

We don't operate any formerly freedom planes. Mesaba does though.

 

[bri5150]

According to you, Pinnacle Airlines, Inc didn't buy Mesaba either.




Absolutely they should engage in ALPA fragmentation policy. Thats what its there for.

Correct, Pinnacle Holdings did. What's your point? Either way, the entity bought our contract with mainline as opposed to the previous "transfer" of aircraft which was a change in contract from the mainline carrier. I don't get why the Pinnacle pilots on this board don't understand the difference between '97 and now. It's completely different. Like I asked before, if ASA got 50 of your 200's due to a Delta contract change, would you expect any type of job offer with seniority at ASA? I can answer this question for you, but I would like to see the answer coming from you. If it's anything but no, you have some serious issues.

 

[DoinTime]

Correct, Pinnacle Holdings did. What's your point? Either way, the entity bought our contract with mainline as opposed to the previous "transfer" of aircraft which was a change in contract from the mainline carrier.

I didn't have a point, I was pointing out that in your previous posts you claim that Pinnacle Inc has no hand in the purchase of Mesaba but in your latest post you point that because Pinnacle bought Mesaba that the situation is different than in '97. If Pinnacle Inc didn't buy you then the purchasing situation is identical to '97.

Facts are that wholly owned Mesaba did not have a contract with Delta on any of their airframes. A new service agreement was negotiated between PNCL and DAL with the purchase (reference the SEC filings for full details). This situation was exactly the same as in 1997 when wholly owned Express I did not have a service agreement with NWA.

I don't get why the Pinnacle pilots on this board don't understand the difference between '97 and now. It's completely different.

I don't get why the Mesaba pilots on this board have no clue as to what even happened in '97. If you weren't there and you don't know, just keep your trap shut. Your speculation only makes you more confused.

I do agree that it is completely different situation though and the LOA does not apply in any way other than highlighting what the Mesaba MEC thought was a "fair" integration years ago.

Like I asked before, if ASA got 50 of your 200's due to a Delta contract change, would you expect any type of job offer with seniority at ASA? I can answer this question for you, but I would like to see the answer coming from you. If it's anything but no, you have some serious issues.

Flip back a post or two and you'll find your answer. You actually quoted it above.....can't you read?

 

[CptMurf]

You may not operate Freedom birds now, but you most certainly did.

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-crj-15145.htm

XJ didn't have a service agreement because they were wholly owned. There had to be negotiations with the purchase, otherwise there would have nothing to buy. The terms of they agreement were fully known, before PNCL agreed to buy, and most likely known when DAL approached them to buy us.

ALPAs fragmentation policy doesn't apply for aircraft pulled and awarded to another DCI family. If it did we all failed to integrate Comair folks on our list.

Your posts are no more accurate than anyone else's here. A mix of half truths, opinions, and stories as we remember them, does not make the accurate truth. This situation is not the same as 97.

XJ was awarded aircraft in 97 agreement. XJ brings aircraft they are already operating.
XJ nor their holdings company purchased Express in 97.
XJs contract required PNCL to abide by it in a purchase, and in the contract there was a fragmentation policy that REQUIRED the movement of our pilots with the aircraft. As stated above, Express wasn't purchased and had no contractual claim to the flying transferred to XJ in 97.

Apples and Oranges here.

 

[CptMurf]

It was either 10 or 11 Saabs. With another 11 in 2002.

Approx 10% of the awarded fleet (we had over 100 at one point). Might explain the limits on how many pilots were allowed to take the LOA with seniority brought up earlier. With a total of 20ish% 5 years later.

 

[CptMurf]

I do agree that it is completely different situation though and the LOA does not apply in any way other than highlighting what the Mesaba MEC thought was a "fair" integration years ago.

It was fair, considering they were under NO obligation to give ANY seniority.

I would have been glad to take the same deal in 2002. Bring 11/2 years seniority to a company thats exploding expansion guarantees a street CA position. I would not now take it now with 12 years of seniority, a stagnant airline, and the possibility of losing a lot of 200 flying.

 

[bri5150]

I didn't have a point, I was pointing out that in your previous posts you claim that Pinnacle Inc has no hand in the purchase of Mesaba but in your latest post you point that because Pinnacle bought Mesaba that the situation is different than in '97. If Pinnacle Inc didn't buy you then the purchasing situation is identical to '97.

Facts are that wholly owned Mesaba did not have a contract with Delta on any of their airframes. A new service agreement was negotiated between PNCL and DAL with the purchase (reference the SEC filings for full details). This situation was exactly the same as in 1997 when wholly owned Express I did not have a service agreement with NWA.




I don't get why the Mesaba pilots on this board have no clue as to what even happened in '97. If you weren't there and you don't know, just keep your trap shut. Your speculation only makes you more confused.

I do agree that it is completely different situation though and the LOA does not apply in any way other than highlighting what the Mesaba MEC thought was a "fair" integration years ago.




Flip back a post or two and you'll find your answer. You actually quoted it above.....can't you read?

How can this purchasing situation be identical to the '97 one if there wasn't one then and there certainly is a "purchasing situation" now?

...oh, you agree it's a completely different situation...wait, it's exactly the same...wait...huh?

Sorry I missed your answer before. Please see CptMurph's post about the fragmentation policy. Oh, and if all we needed was the fragmentation policy, why did we need the scope in our contract? And with all this flying getting moved around DCI carriers, why have pilots not moved from company to company?

 

[DoinTime]

Approx 10% of the awarded fleet (we had over 100 at one point). Might explain the limits on how many pilots were allowed to take the LOA with seniority brought up earlier. With a total of 20ish% 5 years later.

At the time Mesaba had about 50 aircraft. The infusion from Express was about a 20% increase to the Mesaba fleet.

 

[DoinTime]

Please see CptMurph's post about the fragmentation policy.

CptMurph can't even get Mesaba history figured out....he sure isn't expert on ALPA fragmentation policy.

Oh, and if all we needed was the fragmentation policy, why did we need the scope in our contract? And with all this flying getting moved around DCI carriers, why have pilots not moved from company to company?

Fragmentation policy does not make management take pilots. Scope does that.

 

[xjhawk]

I cannot believe how this argument is stupid-Hey Doing Time-figure it out, this is not a transfer of assets-Mesaba pilots had language in the contract to fly these airplanes-the new contract Pinnacle Holdings got for buying Mesaba ensures future profits (there is a point to be made that Delta forced the sale on Pinnacle by giving awesome financing). So guess what? Your precious flying over at 9E did nothing to buy Mesaba. This situation is nothing like 97' unless you are telling us that MAIR Holdings bought Express or part of Express back in 97? You and all your idiot buddies over at Pinnacle (the ones that are not arguing this are not idiots) are just using this as a argument to steal seniority. Oh and just because you are so fond of Republic I think you should go there-you are about as nice and bright as those guys who screwed two good airlines.

 

[Flyer1015]

xjhawk,

this is not a transfer of assets

Yes it is, and Pinnacle holdings management has already admit that. The Mesaba CRJ-900s and 200s are an "asset transfer" to Pinnacle Airlines Inc.

 

[WWEfan]

So when is the decision from the arbitrator due?

 

[bri5150]

So when is the decision from the arbitrator due?

Not soon enough...

 

[MACH-TUCK]

Everybody got their undies in a bunch!!! Just think, next week we can all hold hands and sing Kumbaya

Keg Party at CaptMurf's right??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeJ86poZq60

 

[Flyprdu]

Keg Party at CaptMurf's right??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxvdvoQgAy8

 

[Flyer1015]

So when is the decision from the arbitrator due?

On, or before, Friday May 20.

Once it comes out, I am willing to bet we will see a thread that will have a record amount of posts within 24 hours. Someone said 10 pages, I think it'll be far more.