Pinnacle MEC Chairman Recall

[DoinTime]

The full time buyout was instituted way after Wake left the scene.

The whole case was kept so quiet that no line guys really knew about it, but they should have...

This was hashed out on our internal message board awhile ago. Our MEC has been doing full time buys since mid 2004. Most MECs our size seem to always have someone on full time buy anyway. WG and JB used to pull down big paychecks (200+ hours sometimes) on the backs of the dues payers several years ago. At least the policy that our MEC put in place a couple years ago brought that gamesmanship to an end. The policy now tops out credit at about the same as what our Chief Pilots make. That seems reasonable to me.

 

[Raoul Duke]

They should get the amount that they could otherwise bid, not a dime more. If they want more they can pick up open time and fly. Or better yet, they should volunteer to relieve some of the junior guys working on weekends. It is called leading by example. Unfortunately it is not a quality demonstrated by many MEC leaders - too easy to claim how hard you work on behalf of the pilots while you enjoy 8 - 5 (uaually 8 - about 3) and all weekends off.

 

[higney85]

They should get the amount that they could otherwise bid, not a dime more. If they want more they can pick up open time and fly. Or better yet, they should volunteer to relieve some of the junior guys working on weekends. It is called leading by example. Unfortunately it is not a quality demonstrated by many MEC leaders - too easy to claim how hard you work on behalf of the pilots while you enjoy 8 - 5 (uaually 8 - about 3) and all weekends off.

I don't think you are aware of the time commitment involved in the chair position. It's far from a M-F 8-5 type job. That's a big reason why few actually WANT to do it.

 

[DGdaPilot]

I've yet to meet an MEC officer who "only" works M-F, 9-5. That may be the time spent in the office, but is typically a Mon-Sun job.

 

[redflyer65]

This was hashed out on our internal message board awhile ago. Our MEC has been doing full time buys since mid 2004. Most MECs our size seem to always have someone on full time buy anyway. WG and JB used to pull down big paychecks (200+ hours sometimes) on the backs of the dues payers several years ago. At least the policy that our MEC put in place a couple years ago brought that gamesmanship to an end. The policy now tops out credit at about the same as what our Chief Pilots make. That seems reasonable to me.

We are talking about two different things. I'm talking about paying a terminated pilot for two years out of your dues. Then with the case went to court, the pilot folded because it was a bad case from his stand point, at least that's what I understood. If I'm wrong, someone set me straight.

The MEC buyout was hashed out awhile back. Apples and oranges.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Do other airlines do the same thing? That seems unbelievable, if you are terminated by the Company, there is no way you should get paid in dues money. Not unless every terminated pilot gets the same treatment. Talk about conflict of interest.

 

[DoinTime]

If I'm wrong, someone set me straight.

Don't believe everything you hear. You've gotten a version of the story thats been rewritten to suit the separatists agenda of building mistrust against the current MEC. Its funny and tragic to watch so many people (primarily in our southern domiciles) get sucked into the management sympathizer movement around here. Management is the source of our issues, not our MEC. I guess Stockholm Syndrome is powerful stuff.

 

[PCL_128]

As someone who personally asked members of the Executive Council to approve flight pay loss for that terminated pilot, I can tell you that you don't know what you're talking about, redflyer. Pilots who are terminated in connection with their union work are virtually always compensated by ALPA while they fight their termination, as they should be. No one should suffer a complete loss of income as a result of trying to work for their fellow pilots.

And by the way, WG was on full-time buy for the entire time I worked at PCL. That is typical for any pilot group with over 500 pilots. You can't have a part-time MEC Chairman at that level. In fact, once you get to 1000+ pilots, you probably need an additional guy on full-time status unless you work at a company that treats its employees very well and doesn't cause a bunch of grievances and headaches. If you want the job and you think it's so cushy, then feel free to run for it. Otherwise, stop yer bitchin'!

 

[Lufthansa]

As someone who personally asked members of the Executive Council to approve flight pay loss for that terminated pilot, I can tell you that you don't know what you're talking about, redflyer. Pilots who are terminated in connection with their union work

And as someone who watched this farce unfold, you and that MEC were duped. In your zealousness to stick it to the man and use the pilot groups union dues to support a felon, and probably a friend of yours, you cost PCL pilots dearly. The person in question was not doing 'union work' when he was terminated; he had reccently accepted a position within management, and therein caused his demise by falsifying records. It was your irrational need to support whatever position that the company opposed that lead you to support a person that was clearly lying. Perhaps its you that should get more facts before getting behind a motion. Did you ever see the records in person?

As your posts on this message board attest, your more interested in causing harm to management for the sake of being a pest than getting both sides of the story and drawing a logical conclusion. So who's bitchin now?

 

[PCL_128]

The pilot in question frequently reads this forum, so I'll let him correct your gross inaccuracies if he wants to discuss the facts of the case. I'll just say that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

 

[redflyer65]

Pilots who are terminated in connection with their union work are virtually always compensated by ALPA while they fight their termination, as they should be.

What union job was he doing exactly when he was terminated?

I have no beef with the pilot in question, but the way the union handled it was horrible..then swept it under the rug like it never happened.


I have never said one thing about the Chairman pay structure, maybe that was for someone else.

 

[PCL_128]

He held a high profile union position immediately prior to his termination. And it should be "swept under the rug," because discipline cases are private and not anyone else's business. You don't have a need to know about someone else's termination case.

 

[WildBlue]

High profile? He was a journeyman member of the Grievance Committee.
Nobody needed to know about his disciplinary case, but we should have been told that he was getting paid by the union because the MEC believed that he was terminated for because of his position within the union. That was swept under the rug. So let me get it straight..he was hired for the position of chief pilot, he filled the job for 30 days and he was terminated because he was so high profile in the union. Sorry...that does not add up.
Then, when the MEC finally figured out that they were being taken for a ride 18 months later, the resolutions to terminate his feather bed got swept under the rug.
Is this how you guys run your shop at Tranny?

 

[e=mc2]

In a word "Yes"

Easy for them to throw other peoples money around.

 

[dondk]

And as someone who watched this farce unfold, you and that MEC were duped. In your zealousness to stick it to the man and use the pilot groups union dues to support a felon, and probably a friend of yours, you cost PCL pilots dearly. The person in question was not doing 'union work' when he was terminated; he had reccently accepted a position within management, and therein caused his demise by falsifying records. It was your irrational need to support whatever position that the company opposed that lead you to support a person that was clearly lying. Perhaps its you that should get more facts before getting behind a motion. Did you ever see the records in person?

As your posts on this message board attest, your more interested in causing harm to management for the sake of being a pest than getting both sides of the story and drawing a logical conclusion. So who's bitchin now?

Believe what you want, believe who you want to. Reading some of the comments, some have already made that decision. That is why the PNCL pilot group will never be united, too many people working against the greater good.

 

[EL10]

High profile? He was a journeyman member of the Grievance Committee.
Nobody needed to know about his disciplinary case, but we should have been told that he was getting paid by the union because the MEC believed that he was terminated for because of his position within the union. That was swept under the rug. So let me get it straight..he was hired for the position of chief pilot, he filled the job for 30 days and he was terminated because he was so high profile in the union. Sorry...that does not add up.
Then, when the MEC finally figured out that they were being taken for a ride 18 months later, the resolutions to terminate his feather bed got swept under the rug.
Is this how you guys run your shop at Tranny?

Ummm....You were the Vice-Chairman of the MEC at the time. Why didn't you do something about it if you thought it was a farce? Or is it only a big deal now that you've been kicked out of office and you're looking for ways to bring others down to the level of discredit that you currently hold?

 

[redflyer65]

High profile? He was a journeyman member of the Grievance Committee.
Nobody needed to know about his disciplinary case, but we should have been told that he was getting paid by the union because the MEC believed that he was terminated for because of his position within the union. That was swept under the rug. So let me get it straight..he was hired for the position of chief pilot, he filled the job for 30 days and he was terminated because he was so high profile in the union. Sorry...that does not add up.
Then, when the MEC finally figured out that they were being taken for a ride 18 months later, the resolutions to terminate his feather bed got swept under the rug.
Is this how you guys run your shop at Tranny?

This is exactly right.

Fired from being a Chief Pilot after being accused of insurance fraud.

SE decides to go to the wall and authorizes full monthly pay out from union dues (your union dues) for the member to sit at home for 18 months. Classified it as hostage taking by the company. Really?

What was he getting paid to do? Did the line pilots even know what was going on? The answer was no.

How much did this cost the pilots? And this is the type of activity that PCL128 is still trying to defend. It's indefensible guys, plain and simple.

The case wasn't even close to plausible. Heard there were more than a few extra family members listed for medical and travel benefits. Does that sound even close?

 

[Smarta$$]

This is exactly right.

Fired from being a Chief Pilot after being accused of insurance fraud.

SE decides to go to the wall and authorizes full monthly pay out from union dues (your union dues) for the member to sit at home for 18 months. Classified it as hostage taking by the company. Really?

What was he getting paid to do? Did the line pilots even know what was going on? The answer was no.

How much did this cost the pilots? And this is the type of activity that PCL128 is still trying to defend. It's indefensible guys, plain and simple.

The case wasn't even close to plausible. Heard there were more than a few extra family members listed for medical and travel benefits. Does that sound even close?

Still stirring the pot. Even if the chairman and other members of the MEC screwed that one up, we would still be in a WORSE position to have them replaced at this incredibly sensitive time. Those desiring his recall are a vocal minority, without the bigger picture in mind.

You are not serving this pilot groups greater interest. You are only trying to further divide this group for some personal dislike for the chairman.

Go cause trouble somewhere else.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I don't know anything about this issue but why would the MEC support anyone who is terminated fr 18 months. Nothing is that "sensitive". It looks from the outside like they just wanted to take care of their buddy. Since I dont know the facts of this instance, would you have supported paying him if he had done something else - like sent racist emails? (i.e. at what point would you draw the line)

 

[redflyer65]

Smarta$$,

I'm glad your OK with this active that was done with your dues money. You alright with this type of leadership going forward? Really?

Like I said indefensible. And all you can say is that I'm stirring the pot? Bring a real debate.

Raoul,

That's the million dollar question. How much money? and Why?

 

[higney85]

I have personally heard conflicting stories that led to the issue in question, and also why he was left on "the dole" so long. I do know there was a settlement involved and I heard most of the money was recouped in the settlement. There has been a pretty good turnover since this situation that happened in the past. I don't see that anyone would get this treatment now unless it was a clear cut situation with a "hands down" win in the grievance process where the pilot would come back.

 

[DoinTime]

That's the million dollar question. How much money? and Why?

Have you looked for those answers? Who did you ask?

 

[Raoul Duke]

Since I don't work there can you fill us all in? How much was he paid (actual amount approximately) and why, and probably most importantly what would have changed if he wasnt paid (ie would it have changed what he would testify to in an arbitration and hurt the pilots somehow).

 

[dondk]

This is exactly right.

Fired from being a Chief Pilot after being accused of insurance fraud.

SE decides to go to the wall and authorizes full monthly pay out from union dues (your union dues) for the member to sit at home for 18 months. Classified it as hostage taking by the company. Really?

What was he getting paid to do? Did the line pilots even know what was going on? The answer was no.

How much did this cost the pilots? And this is the type of activity that PCL128 is still trying to defend. It's indefensible guys, plain and simple.

The case wasn't even close to plausible. Heard there were more than a few extra family members listed for medical and travel benefits. Does that sound even close?

Justin... christ now, you've been at SWA for how long? I truly regret I took the time to congratulate you on the exit from 9E to SWA.

Sorry dude, you are f'ing clueless. Take the time and ask me (me the source) and stop making crap up, it makes you look stupid.

Need you forget you were the NC chair for a period? I wonder how you got that sweet time off to interview with SWA, was it perhaps on the dues of the peeps you were representing? Nah, you were ABOVE that, right?

While you are clueless, I did not sip margarita's on the beach for those months. Since you were not a dues paying member during that time, sadly it is not none of your business. I represented the 9e pilot group and was not out interviewing like yourself and the other NC chairs during the same period.

Hmmm... on that note.. GB a former NC chair is happy at JB, JV a NC chair is still complaining while at SWA, BD a former NC chair is quietly enjoying life at DAL. PH a NC chair is still at 9E.. does not say much for the previous NC chairs, does it?

Justin, do you really need to bring my family into this? I have six kids (yes, they are all mine, and all were eligible for travel and health bennies) despite what Marva thought. I was present for each birth, not the mgmt of 9E and I surely don't recall you being in the room.

Get a life dude, enjoy working for SWA and leave the guys YOU left dealing with your failure as NC alone. If anything, they should be asking what you did for them other than abandoning them.

It pains me to say this, because I did respect you, but sir, you really are a disappointment.

 

[dondk]

I have personally heard conflicting stories that led to the issue in question, and also why he was left on "the dole" so long. I do know there was a settlement involved and I heard most of the money was recouped in the settlement. There has been a pretty good turnover since this situation that happened in the past. I don't see that anyone would get this treatment now unless it was a clear cut situation with a "hands down" win in the grievance process where the pilot would come back.

If you "know" of the settlement, then I would love to know about it. Other than the ALPA lawyer, myself and the MEC chair it is all confidential. I that is broken, then my case would go to the SBA, and I welcome that. So please ken.. tell me what you know, SE and CH would enjoy having this case back. I await your knowledge of a sealed case.

 

[dondk]

While I don't agree with SE, jeez guys... is the best you can bring?

My case which you really have no clue about? Is this the best way you can attack SE, on something that really does not apply to him? There was a MEC and more than one signed off to the resolution to allow the FPL. That includes those northern guys you thing are god's.

Whomever and wherever you are getting your information from, it is far from the truth.

Again, SE is not the enemy of the 9E pilot group, he is doing the best he can. The real enemies are those here that are clueless, and worse yet, ignorant.

I wish the 9E group the best, forget those that have abandoned you, that includes the former MEC VC and other LEC chairs. Focus on the guys and gals that fight for you each day. That is the only way to survive, not on the past, but towards the future.

 

[Smarta$$]

Smarta$$,

I'm glad your OK with this active that was done with your dues money. You alright with this type of leadership going forward? Really?

Like I said indefensible. And all you can say is that I'm stirring the pot? Bring a real debate.

Raoul,

That's the million dollar question. How much money? and Why?

So you were on the negotiating committee for a time and partially responsible for the TERRIBLE contents of TA1! The TA that would have made us even more of a laughing stock than we already are!

You are officially worthless.

 

[higney85]

If you "know" of the settlement, then I would love to know about it. Other than the ALPA lawyer, myself and the MEC chair it is all confidential. I that is broken, then my case would go to the SBA, and I welcome that. So please ken.. tell me what you know, SE and CH would enjoy having this case back. I await your knowledge of a sealed case.

I don't have anything on your sealed case, just the various rumors- much like this thread. I'm glad you came on here to set the record straight.

 

[PCL_128]

Don, I'm pretty sure that RedFlyer isn't JV.

 

[dondk]

I don't have anything on your sealed case, just the various rumors- much like this thread. I'm glad you came on here to set the record straight.

Thanks... just got fed up with the outright lies and the attacks not only on me but other 9E guys/gals that actually try to make a difference.

I don't get the whole attempt to throw SE under the bus by using my situation. SE deserves better than that, and those that refuse to see that I can't finds words to describe.