Pinnacle MEC Chairman Recall

[dondk]

Rez and PCL I respect both of you for what you have done with the union. That is not in question at all.

I am sorry though, when you fill out an application for a credit card or your IRS form, under profession you put PILOT, not some union title. That is because it is simply that, a title.

As a pilot, you need your medical and currency, without either, you are a pilot in title only. I take offense that training/recurrent and currency is considered drivel or BS. You are a pilot first, union official second, without being a pilot you would not be a union official. Focus on your job? is that the title in the union or the pilot, which is it?

I served with both of you for several years under various leaders at both the LEC and MEC level. My position has always been for the pilot group, regardless of the leadership. That is who I worked for, the pilots. I know of reps on all levels of the union that made it work with flying and representing their pilot group, so it does work, it is up to the rep though.

Do I want my representation ready and available? sure, but we both know they are never ALWAYS available and in some case not ready. We all saw that by some of the meetings that went down. Albeit, that was years ago, so I don't expect you to remember.

Rez, good example of those events. Do you really think the leadership provided direction immediately? Does it really matter if they took an hour to respond or 8 to 24 hours? Would it matter that much if they did not respond until after they got out of a sim? There is nothing (or there should be nothing) that pressing at a MEC level that needs to be addressed and decided upon in a matter of minutes. Life will not end for anyone if the MEC chair is unavailable.

Bottom line, I am not going to continue this banter. Believe what you do, I still respect both of you, I just don't agree with your respective positions.

 

[Raoul Duke]

It is absolutely absurd that these guys could dequal.

 

[PCL_128]

I take offense that training/recurrent and currency is considered drivel or BS.

And I take offense that you think a full-time union office is nothing more than a title. But like you said, no need to keep arguing about it.

 

[dondk]

And I take offense that you think a full-time union office is nothing more than a title. But like you said, no need to keep arguing about it.

It was not my intent to suggest your office in nothing more than a title. Please don't take it personally. Yourself and a select few others, I agree it is more that a title.

For those others, it is just a title. That is the difference between a union rep and a great union rep.

 

[Inconceivable]

So Don,

When the Memphis Mafia check airmen, who have made no secret of their dislike for Scott and his "yankee" agenda, decide to bust him on an unnecessary PC, what then?

Those thick-necks were out of control when I worked there, they were out of control when you were there, and they are still out of control today. There are current check airman with 2003+ hire dates who are in that "good old boy" culture of corruption--so it's not something that you can say is limited to EXA I Jetstream pilots--it's a disease that continues to spread.

I do not think it is an exaggeration to say that almost every safety issue in the Sabatini report can be traced back to this little clique. Not every problem can be laid at Phil's door just for being a cheap boss. The North Mississippi Flying Club is now actively threatening to black-hat union officials with whom they disagree. Yet you think it is a good idea to make the MEC chair submit to their no-accountability corruption in the midst of contract negotiations, a seniority list integration, and continued ankle-biting from the LEC newcomers?

Why that's just silly--and certainly NOT in the best interest of the union's membership.

Disclaimer: I have never met Scott E. But I am intimately aware of what he is up against both from the company and the NMFC.

 

[dondk]

I can't argue with your points. Well put and spot on.

If you get your arse out to the membership and communicate, there is less for the ankle biters to chew at. Grassroots starts with getting out there, not dividing the yankee's from the good ol boy's. No one will win that fight, not with how entrenched some of those good 'ol boys are.

I was not picking directly on him either, I am saying that to take a holier than thou position is one sure way to alienate any membership. Showing that you are willing to get dirty with the masses goes a long way for publicity. That is why whenever you have some natural disaster, you have those Hollywood types get on their soap boxes, it is good for business!

The best interest of the membership is unity and parity, without either you will remain divided. That is something no MEC chair has achieved at that property. Maybe one day, one of them will.

 

[redflyer65]

So everyone thinks he's done a good job and united the group?

 

[Inconceivable]

The group can't be united.

What must be accepted is the fact that there is a vocal minority among the senior 20% of pilots who actually want to preserve the status quo. They would like a rapid settlement so that they can receive a raise--any raise--while maintaining low health care costs.

Nat work rule improvements--benefitting the other 20% of the pilot group--are of no interest to them. Why would they when they can hit 90h of pay with 18 days off? Any trip rig, min day pay, additional days off for reserves, etc. would only cause the airline to shift the "weight" of the schedule throughout the pilot group. This means senior pilots will have fewer days off to achieve the same total monthly credit.

Make no mistake kids, this is what the issue is, was, and always will be. Any workrule improvements will come at the expense of very senior pilots' days off. This is what they are fighting. This is why they threaten. This is why they tell you the airline will fold up and go away if you get what you want in negotiations.

God forbid the Memphis Mafia have one less day a month on their bass boats on Lake Sardis. But you, you can enjoy being extended for another 8 day off month of ready reserve for nothing more than guarantee.

After all, if you don't like it you can HOLDSHORT.

 

[Flyer1015]

The group can't be united.

What must be accepted is the fact that there is a vocal minority among the senior 20% of pilots who actually want to preserve the status quo. They would like a rapid settlement so that they can receive a raise--any raise--while maintaining low health care costs.

Nat work rule improvements--benefitting the other 20% of the pilot group--are of no interest to them. Why would they when they can hit 90h of pay with 18 days off? Any trip rig, min day pay, additional days off for reserves, etc. would only cause the airline to shift the "weight" of the schedule throughout the pilot group. This means senior pilots will have fewer days off to achieve the same total monthly credit.

Make no mistake kids, this is what the issue is, was, and always will be. Any workrule improvements will come at the expense of very senior pilots' days off. This is what they are fighting. This is why they threaten. This is why they tell you the airline will fold up and go away if you get what you want in negotiations.

God forbid the Memphis Mafia have one less day a month on their bass boats on Lake Sardis. But you, you can enjoy being extended for another 8 day off month of ready reserve for nothing more than guarantee.

After all, if you don't like it you can HOLDSHORT.

What a joke. Sadly, true!

 

[Smarta$$]

Y

The group can't be united.

What must be accepted is the fact that there is a vocal minority among the senior 20% of pilots who actually want to preserve the status quo. They would like a rapid settlement so that they can receive a raise--any raise--while maintaining low health care costs.

Nat work rule improvements--benefitting the other 20% of the pilot group--are of no interest to them. Why would they when they can hit 90h of pay with 18 days off? Any trip rig, min day pay, additional days off for reserves, etc. would only cause the airline to shift the "weight" of the schedule throughout the pilot group. This means senior pilots will have fewer days off to achieve the same total monthly credit.

Make no mistake kids, this is what the issue is, was, and always will be. Any workrule improvements will come at the expense of very senior pilots' days off. This is what they are fighting. This is why they threaten. This is why they tell you the airline will fold up and go away if you get what you want in negotiations.

God forbid the Memphis Mafia have one less day a month on their bass boats on Lake Sardis. But you, you can enjoy being extended for another 8 day off month of ready reserve for nothing more than guarantee.

After all, if you don't like it you can HOLDSHORT.

Spot fu%$ing on. I don't know you, but you nailed it good. This group can NOT be unified. Replacing the chairman with someone that the southern bases and the Mem Mafia approves of will leave us just as divided, if not MORE.

 

[Smarta$$]

The group can't be united.

What must be accepted is the fact that there is a vocal minority among the senior 20% of pilots who actually want to preserve the status quo. They would like a rapid settlement so that they can receive a raise--any raise--while maintaining low health care costs.

Nat work rule improvements--benefitting the other 20% of the pilot group--are of no interest to them. Why would they when they can hit 90h of pay with 18 days off? Any trip rig, min day pay, additional days off for reserves, etc. would only cause the airline to shift the "weight" of the schedule throughout the pilot group. This means senior pilots will have fewer days off to achieve the same total monthly credit.

Make no mistake kids, this is what the issue is, was, and always will be. Any workrule improvements will come at the expense of very senior pilots' days off. This is what they are fighting. This is why they threaten. This is why they tell you the airline will fold up and go away if you get what you want in negotiations.

God forbid the Memphis Mafia have one less day a month on their bass boats on Lake Sardis. But you, you can enjoy being extended for another 8 day off month of ready reserve for nothing more than guarantee.

After all, if you don't like it you can HOLDSHORT.

It is also important to understand that most of the vocal top 20% wants to avoid a release at all cost. They do NOT want to be released. As much as they want a new contract, they want to protect their gravy train even more. They don't want to take any chances, regardless of how bad a contract is for the rest of us. That is why some former Mem union insiders intentionally ruined our chance at release before TA1.

 

[redflyer65]

So now that Colgan gets the Mesaba contract with all the advantages it brings, and the Pinnacle pilots are left with a contract from 1999 with no end in sight, you think the current MEC management is good enough? This could get interesting. Did I mention that the profit from 9e allowed all of this to happen?

 

[Smarta$$]

So now that Colgan gets the Mesaba contract with all the advantages it brings, and the Pinnacle pilots are left with a contract from 1999 with no end in sight, you think the current MEC management is good enough? This could get interesting. Did I mention that the profit from 9e allowed all of this to happen?

What leverage SPECIFICALLY does our MEC chairman have to force the company to do what we want? What legal leverage? What leverage have the pilots given him through a unified SAFE campaign?

 

[redflyer65]

I don't know but maybe

Focus on getting a contract for everyone by giving the NC direct input instead of..

bidding the 900 for higher pay

picking up extra flying

not paying a former member 2yrs of pay for nothing (failed grievance)

dropping the W2 bonus pay method immediately instead of letting it drag out indefinitely. How was that unifying the group?

 

[Smarta$$]

I don't know but maybe

Focus on getting a contract for everyone by giving the NC direct input instead of..

bidding the 900 for higher pay

picking up extra flying

not paying a former member 2yrs of pay for nothing (failed grievance)

dropping the W2 bonus pay method immediately instead of letting it drag out indefinitely. How was that unifying the group?

Your an idiot.

He can't pick up flying because he is not current, and has not been for more than 2 years while on full time buy.

Negotiating committees get their direction and marching orders from the 8 MEC reps, not the chairman.

You have NO clue what you are talking about and clearly have a personal vendetta and dislike for our chairman. He is far better than the previous chairman. Most peoples frustration comes from lack of progress on our contract. For that, we should correctly blame the RLA, our plantation style management team, our previous MEM leadership and former NC members(that did not pursue contract provisions that benefit all segments of our group) and our own PILOTS for not creating any leverage for our negotiating committee.

It is stunning how out of touch with reality you are.

 

[Smarta$$]

You talk about unifying, if the chairman was replaced with someone that would please the Northern Mississippi Flying Club and the ATL blowhards, this group would be MORE divided than it is now.

Go gin up some more fake controversies.

 

[redflyer65]

There's nothing fake about them. You just don't know about them, that's the point..

Ask the hard questions of your leadership.

The Pinnacle line pilots are suffering at the hands of this MEC. If you're happy with the way things have gone, then fine. Don't ask about the things I bring up.

The line pilots and reserve guys are getting killed everyday, and Colgan gets the Mesaba contract in 20 minutes. Rome is burning and the ALPA leadership is not LEADING.

How many times over the past 4 years has Pinnacle management handed the MEC a pile of crap and nothing happens, it just keeps going...on and on and on.

 

[i fly boxes]

The problem with pinnacle is the pilots in Memphis who still think this airline is a prop operation based out mem I think our mec is doing a fine job. Is there a way to furlough from the top? I think it might do this airline good

 

[kellwolf]

There's nothing fake about them. You just don't know about them, that's the point..

Um....what about the "picking up extra flying?" Last I heard, the complain was he wasn't current. Well, if he's not current, he can't pick up extra flying. So, either that one's fake, or.....nevermind. That one's just fake. If you're truly concerned, and it's true, perhaps you should call the FAA since we've got a rogue MEC chair flying an airplane he's not even current in....

 

[redflyer65]

Unbelievable. Instead of asking question of your union, you decide to attack me instead. He may not be current now, do you really think he hadn't picked up flying before that? You guys believe what you want to and continue to get junior manned and extended below 10 days off with no comp days in sight while the company goes on and on about how they really want a contract now.

I'm not for or against the Miss. Flying Club you guys talk about, I just think you can do better, and deserve it. 5+ years and counting with nothing is long enough.

I guess you deserve the union your comfortable with.