Pinnacle MEC Chairman Recall

[higney85]

What would you do differently? You are very good at laying down your anger but don't ask a true question or a solid suggestion. For once there actually is leverage with dual qual and a contract prior to seniority list integration. That effects everyone. As far as the chair- who would you put there instead? Heck, nobody wants to do it other than those who have already been pushed out in the past!

 

[Smarta$$]

What would you do differently? You are very good at laying down your anger but don't ask a true question or a solid suggestion. For once there actually is leverage with dual qual and a contract prior to seniority list integration. That effects everyone. As far as the chair- who would you put there instead? Heck, nobody wants to do it other than those who have already been pushed out in the past!

Alright Higney, you seem to have come back to the real world. Welcome back. Also, I agree completely with your post. I sure hope you guys can use this newly found leverage to close this thing out in short order.

Do you have ANY guess, stressing the word guess, as to the possible success and time frame of a bridge agreement?

 

[Smarta$$]

Unbelievable. Instead of asking question of your union, you decide to attack me instead. He may not be current now, do you really think he hadn't picked up flying before that? You guys believe what you want to and continue to get junior manned and extended below 10 days off with no comp days in sight while the company goes on and on about how they really want a contract now.

I'm not for or against the Miss. Flying Club you guys talk about, I just think you can do better, and deserve it. 5+ years and counting with nothing is long enough.

I guess you deserve the union your comfortable with.

He has not been current in over 2 years. He has NOT been flying. Their is NO ONE of any quality willing to do his job. He actually is doing a fairly good job considering the total lack of ANY power or leverage the union has thanks to the RLA and our limp d!ck pilot group. You can't make a bazooka out of duck tape and Popsicle sticks.

His communication needed improvement, but it has improved recently. Also communicating that "the company made no reasonable offer" over, and over, and over, and over, is not useful anyway.

You really have NO clue what you are talking about. I am VERY well informed, and you have brought up NOTHING I have not heard before. I just know them to be false and made up charges.

Your not fooling anyone but a fool.

 

[higney85]

Alright Higney, you seem to have come back to the real world. Welcome back. Also, I agree completely with your post. I sure hope you guys can use this newly found leverage to close this thing out in short order.

Do you have ANY guess, stressing the word guess, as to the possible success and time frame of a bridge agreement?

I never went anywhere but to answer your question we are expected to hear something back shortly from the company on how they are willing to procede in response to our bridge agreement proposal (to engage in it, nothing has been truly proposed). The company had their board of directors meeting last week so we are awaiting their response. The negotiating committees of XJ and 9E met last week to compare the current Mesaba contract to our TA2 language and figure out what's good, bad, indifferent, and areas to be addressed. The MEC should have this info shortly.

Does that answer your question?

 

[kellwolf]

Unbelievable. Instead of asking question of your union, you decide to attack me instead. He may not be current now, do you really think he hadn't picked up flying before that? You guys believe what you want to and continue to get junior manned and extended below 10 days off with no comp days in sight while the company goes on and on about how they really want a contract now.

As opposed to the previous chair who never picked up lots of flying in addition to being on union buy out during contract negotiations? I'm not really sure what your goal is here other than to rant on a message board. I'm not happy with the current progress of contract negotiations, but I'd rather find real world solutions to the problem than joust at windmills.

You're being "attacked" (I'd hardly call it being attacked myself) because you're apparently inventing things. You say he's picking up time. Someone points out that he can't. So, you revise it and say "Well.....he USED to."

 

[redflyer65]

I didn't change anything Kell,

all the stuff I mentioned has happened in the past (maybe not yesterday), it's just the membership is either mis-informed on some items or is just following blindly or don't care.

You OK with the Chairman spending your dues money for a full time buy of a terminated employee too? I'm sorry, that was something that happened in the past so it should be OK, right? Maybe worth 150 thousand dollars.

There are alot of guys that could do a great job, some are right here on this board. I just think it's sad what's gone down for the PCL line pilots, from both a management slap down and your union leadership.

I'm not trying to piss you guys off, just want the best for the PCL group. I'm just questioning whether your getting that...

Don't follow blindly, get involved and ask the hard questions of your leadership. Remember they are spending YOUR hard earned money. (at Pinnacle, every penny is hard earned).

 

[Inconceivable]

That was Wake G. who was the queen of open-time pick up.

 

[kellwolf]

I don't know but maybe

Focus on getting a contract for everyone by giving the NC direct input instead of..

picking up extra flying

He may not be current now, do you really think he hadn't picked up flying before that?

I didn't change anything Kell,

You wanna re-read what you posted, then? You most certainly DID change what you said. He's either picking up time now, or he used to pick up time. Which is it? Technically, I USED to be an FO, but that was about 2 years ago.

I don't know if he picked up time or not. Honestly, I don't care. We already have plenty of line pilots picking it up at 200%, bragging about how they called in sick for a trip, used sick time to cover that trip, then start ANOTHER trip they picked up out of open time at 200% that started mere hours after the one they called in sick for. Then they ask "Why can't we put pressure on management to get a contract" and point fingers at everyone except themselves. I'm not saying you are one of those people. I don't even know who you are, so that would be difficult at best. I'm just saying there's enough finger pointing to go around, and I'm just curious what your ultimate goal with this is. If it's to remove our current MEC chair, you're not alone. I personally think that would do more to de-stabilize what little we have, and it could potentially fracture us more depending on who was the replacement. Seeing as I don't know one MSP FO that's flown with the MEC chair in the past year or so (there was a while he was flying the line because the company wasn't approving union leaves, but this was even before the -900 came out), I think you're chasing unfounded rumors.....again.

 

[redflyer65]

I agree about the finger pointing and guys picking up extra time for 200%.

The full time buyout was instituted way after Wake left the scene.

The whole case was kept so quiet that no line guys really knew about it, but they should have...

Higney and Kellwolf, just keep looking out for the regular line guys. They have taken the brunt of all this and sometimes don't even know what's going on behind the scenes.

Good luck guys.

 

[higney85]

FYI the current chairman won't be out for 2 years until the new year (2011). After that he would have to do the "long course" to get re-qualed. That is enough motivation for him to get his recurrent ground, PC, and line check done prior to the start of 2011. He is working on that. Everyone has issues with the leadership- Heck even I do depending on the day- but the fact remains that after 5+ years we can't just "pull a Hoffa" as I was politely asked today. This is a frustrating process that will yield a deal. Why it takes forever? Beats me and it sure is frustrating, but we finally are in a position where it could get done. Our side is angry, the operation has been suffering, and the company needs a contract to move on for "the shareholders".

Just my $.0002.

 

[DoinTime]

The full time buyout was instituted way after Wake left the scene.

The whole case was kept so quiet that no line guys really knew about it, but they should have...

This was hashed out on our internal message board awhile ago. Our MEC has been doing full time buys since mid 2004. Most MECs our size seem to always have someone on full time buy anyway. WG and JB used to pull down big paychecks (200+ hours sometimes) on the backs of the dues payers several years ago. At least the policy that our MEC put in place a couple years ago brought that gamesmanship to an end. The policy now tops out credit at about the same as what our Chief Pilots make. That seems reasonable to me.

 

[Raoul Duke]

They should get the amount that they could otherwise bid, not a dime more. If they want more they can pick up open time and fly. Or better yet, they should volunteer to relieve some of the junior guys working on weekends. It is called leading by example. Unfortunately it is not a quality demonstrated by many MEC leaders - too easy to claim how hard you work on behalf of the pilots while you enjoy 8 - 5 (uaually 8 - about 3) and all weekends off.

 

[higney85]

They should get the amount that they could otherwise bid, not a dime more. If they want more they can pick up open time and fly. Or better yet, they should volunteer to relieve some of the junior guys working on weekends. It is called leading by example. Unfortunately it is not a quality demonstrated by many MEC leaders - too easy to claim how hard you work on behalf of the pilots while you enjoy 8 - 5 (uaually 8 - about 3) and all weekends off.

I don't think you are aware of the time commitment involved in the chair position. It's far from a M-F 8-5 type job. That's a big reason why few actually WANT to do it.

 

[DGdaPilot]

I've yet to meet an MEC officer who "only" works M-F, 9-5. That may be the time spent in the office, but is typically a Mon-Sun job.

 

[redflyer65]

This was hashed out on our internal message board awhile ago. Our MEC has been doing full time buys since mid 2004. Most MECs our size seem to always have someone on full time buy anyway. WG and JB used to pull down big paychecks (200+ hours sometimes) on the backs of the dues payers several years ago. At least the policy that our MEC put in place a couple years ago brought that gamesmanship to an end. The policy now tops out credit at about the same as what our Chief Pilots make. That seems reasonable to me.

We are talking about two different things. I'm talking about paying a terminated pilot for two years out of your dues. Then with the case went to court, the pilot folded because it was a bad case from his stand point, at least that's what I understood. If I'm wrong, someone set me straight.

The MEC buyout was hashed out awhile back. Apples and oranges.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Do other airlines do the same thing? That seems unbelievable, if you are terminated by the Company, there is no way you should get paid in dues money. Not unless every terminated pilot gets the same treatment. Talk about conflict of interest.

 

[DoinTime]

If I'm wrong, someone set me straight.

Don't believe everything you hear. You've gotten a version of the story thats been rewritten to suit the separatists agenda of building mistrust against the current MEC. Its funny and tragic to watch so many people (primarily in our southern domiciles) get sucked into the management sympathizer movement around here. Management is the source of our issues, not our MEC. I guess Stockholm Syndrome is powerful stuff.

 

[PCL_128]

As someone who personally asked members of the Executive Council to approve flight pay loss for that terminated pilot, I can tell you that you don't know what you're talking about, redflyer. Pilots who are terminated in connection with their union work are virtually always compensated by ALPA while they fight their termination, as they should be. No one should suffer a complete loss of income as a result of trying to work for their fellow pilots.

And by the way, WG was on full-time buy for the entire time I worked at PCL. That is typical for any pilot group with over 500 pilots. You can't have a part-time MEC Chairman at that level. In fact, once you get to 1000+ pilots, you probably need an additional guy on full-time status unless you work at a company that treats its employees very well and doesn't cause a bunch of grievances and headaches. If you want the job and you think it's so cushy, then feel free to run for it. Otherwise, stop yer bitchin'!

 

[Lufthansa]

As someone who personally asked members of the Executive Council to approve flight pay loss for that terminated pilot, I can tell you that you don't know what you're talking about, redflyer. Pilots who are terminated in connection with their union work

And as someone who watched this farce unfold, you and that MEC were duped. In your zealousness to stick it to the man and use the pilot groups union dues to support a felon, and probably a friend of yours, you cost PCL pilots dearly. The person in question was not doing 'union work' when he was terminated; he had reccently accepted a position within management, and therein caused his demise by falsifying records. It was your irrational need to support whatever position that the company opposed that lead you to support a person that was clearly lying. Perhaps its you that should get more facts before getting behind a motion. Did you ever see the records in person?

As your posts on this message board attest, your more interested in causing harm to management for the sake of being a pest than getting both sides of the story and drawing a logical conclusion. So who's bitchin now?

 

[PCL_128]

The pilot in question frequently reads this forum, so I'll let him correct your gross inaccuracies if he wants to discuss the facts of the case. I'll just say that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.