Pinnacle gets TA

[JustaNumber]

3. The contract was so horrible in the first place that it was never reasonable to expect an industry-leading contract to come out of these negotiations. You guys had an industry-average agreement and were trying to make improvements from that. The Pinnacle guys were starting from 10 steps back, and there was just no way they could catch up in a single agreement. They had to fix something as basic as block-or-better, for heaven's sake!

Keep in mind, though, that it's always the lowest paid group that always has the most bargaining leverage, not the other way around. If the cheapest guy in town refuses to do the work for crap wages anymore, his boss has no other alternatives.

We all don't know the details of your TA, but the rest of the industry is expecting absolutely nothing less than at least industry average from you guys, if not a little above average. Anything less and you're selling out, and no better than Mesa.

 

[dondk]

Keep in mind, though, that it's always the lowest paid group that always has the most bargaining leverage, not the other way around. If the cheapest guy in town refuses to do the work for crap wages anymore, his boss has no other alternatives.

We all don't know the details of your TA, but the rest of the industry is expecting absolutely nothing less than at least industry average from you guys, if not a little above average. Anything less and you're selling out, and no better than Mesa.

You can't say that, as PCL-128 clearly states most of the TA was settled back 3 years or more. You can't go back in and say "I changed my mind", lets RE-negotiate. The company would be screaming bargaining in bad faith and be justified.

This TA is not industry leading, not completely industry standard either. It is close, but after 4+ years at the table it HAS to be short. No one is going to get a leading or standard contract after 4 years at the table. For that to happen they would have to had been so far above standard to start with.

It is a 5 year deal from what I have heard. Which as someone else stated means it probably will last more than 5 years. Will it be signed? no one knows yet, but the argument to toss it back at the risk of another 2 years is something that group has to decide.

While it is nice to think that the lowest paid has all the control, they don't. IF the carrier can't make end meet they shed crews before increasing labor costs. Even if they increase labor cost, they still will most likely shed crews. With DCI cutting back and the potential higher crew cost I don't see the 9E guys holding control. Heck the company even wants to split the signing bonus in 2 payments, is that a sign of industry leading?

 

[labbats]

Wasn't it the head of ALPA that said We're taking it back!

Now ALPA is trying to tell us how hard it is to create an industry standard contract.

ALPA reminds me of the kid down the block that shouts and tells everyone how tough he is, but when you face him down he runs away. Then he starts yelling about how tough he is all over again.

 

[rtmcfi]

You can't say that, as PCL-128 clearly states most of the TA was settled back 3 years or more. You can't go back in and say "I changed my mind", lets RE-negotiate. The company would be screaming bargaining in bad faith and be justified.

This TA is not industry leading, not completely industry standard either. It is close, but after 4+ years at the table it HAS to be short. No one is going to get a leading or standard contract after 4 years at the table. For that to happen they would have to had been so far above standard to start with.

It is a 5 year deal from what I have heard. Which as someone else stated means it probably will last more than 5 years. Will it be signed? no one knows yet, but the argument to toss it back at the risk of another 2 years is something that group has to decide.

While it is nice to think that the lowest paid has all the control, they don't. IF the carrier can't make end meet they shed crews before increasing labor costs. Even if they increase labor cost, they still will most likely shed crews. With DCI cutting back and the potential higher crew cost I don't see the 9E guys holding control. Heck the company even wants to split the signing bonus in 2 payments, is that a sign of industry leading?

The 9e guys are a bunch of nancies. Look to the history of NetJets if you don't think you can go from worst to first contract-wise. You pillow-biters need to grow a spine. This isn't gulfstream anymore. Your PFT days are supposed to be over.

 

[rockit85]

I hate Pinchnickel. Way to raise the bar guys

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Wasn't it the head of ALPA that said We're taking it back!

Now ALPA is trying to tell us how hard it is to create an industry standard contract.

ALPA reminds me of the kid down the block that shouts and tells everyone how tough he is, but when you face him down he runs away. Then he starts yelling about how tough he is all over again.

Democracy allows you to vote no. Politic your fellow pilots to vote the same... if the TA passes... whom do you blame?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The 9e guys are a bunch of nancies. Look to the history of NetJets if you don't think you can go from worst to first contract-wise. You pillow-biters need to grow a spine. This isn't gulfstream anymore. Your PFT days are supposed to be over.

The fractional business model is different and gave NJA better leverage...

 

[WWEfan]

If the TA isn't what you think you deserve then vote it down. Simple enough.

 

[TurboAWD]

To everyone who thinks that the Obama NMB should not only allow 9E to get a new contract within a few months of being appointed but should also enable them to go from one of the bottom contract to the very top, I am wondering if you have read the paper lately. I hear that there is a bit of a recession. Wonder if that affects bargaining? Weren't the majors still hiring when ASA made their agreement?

As far as the duration, that is 5 years and in my mind probably the biggest failure of this TA. Accepting a mediocre contract during bad economic times is a lot more palatable if you will get the chance to improve it again in 2-3 years.

Turbo

 

[OCP]

Just got the skinny on a bunch of points to the TA. They got stuff they should have, but FAR from even industry average on a lot of rules. Didn't discuss pay rates so don't know what those look like.