Pinnacle gets TA

[Flyprdu]

I agree that 75% deadhead is BS. But again, the alternative is voting it down and waiting 1-2 years for something that will maybe be better. I honestly don't know what my vote would be if I were still there, but I want everyone to make an informed decision and understand that the NMB isn't going to just release them if they reject the deal. This process will go on for a while longer.

Since the new contract will have a lifespan of 10 years or so... then waiting another year to get it right will not be that much of a loss.

I am disappointed at the posturing and excuse making that is already started about this contract. Hopefully the MEC will not even let the pilot group see it.

 

[PCL_128]

Since the new contract will have a lifespan of 10 years or so... then waiting another year to get it right will not be that much of a loss.

If the Democratic Administration gets elected to another term, then you won't see another 5-year bargaining cycle for your next contract. Historically, the average time spent in mediation is only about 2-2.5 years. Only under the Bush Administration did that start to get screwed up.

What is the duration on this TA, by the way? That's one of the things I haven't heard yet.

 

[CopilotDoug]

If the Democratic Administration gets elected to another term, then you won't see another 5-year bargaining cycle for your next contract. Historically, the average time spent in mediation is only about 2-2.5 years. Only under the Bush Administration did that start to get screwed up.

What is the duration on this TA, by the way? That's one of the things I haven't heard yet.

And the PCL pilots are to believe this why? The fact of the matter is that we have your "perfect storm" (Democratic Administration) and the excuses keep coming as they always have. But we understand...ALPA promised the pilots more than the Dems could deliver...and now ALPA needs to come up with excuses for the lack of change.

It's funny, though...9E management is pissing on the pilots and you're telling them it's raining. How about you step down from your soapbox and let the 9E pilots decide what is and what isn't an acceptable TA? Sounds to me like this TA doesn't exactly fall in line with ALPA's pipedream of "Pattern Bargaining"...unless that pattern is one crappy contract after another?

 

[Smarta$$]

And the PCL pilots are to believe this why? The fact of the matter is that we have your "perfect storm" (Democratic Administration) and the excuses keep coming as they always have. But we understand...ALPA promised the pilots more than the Dems could deliver...and now ALPA needs to come up with excuses for the lack of change.

It's funny, though...9E management is pissing on the pilots and you're telling them it's raining. How about you step down from your soapbox and let the 9E pilots decide what is and what isn't an acceptable TA? Sounds to me like this TA doesn't exactly fall in line with ALPA's pipedream of "Pattern Bargaining"...unless that pattern is one crappy contract after another?

Just out of curiosity, what is your detailed solution to improving pilot pay and job protections in this industry?

 

[PCL_128]

And the PCL pilots are to believe this why? The fact of the matter is that we have your "perfect storm" (Democratic Administration) and the excuses keep coming as they always have. But we understand...ALPA promised the pilots more than the Dems could deliver...and now ALPA needs to come up with excuses for the lack of change.

Lack of change? The PCL pilots have a TA within 7 months of Obama taking office after slogging through no progress for 5 years, and you don't see change?! You're blind as a f&^#ing bat.

Sounds to me like this TA doesn't exactly fall in line with ALPA's pipedream of "Pattern Bargaining"...unless that pattern is one crappy contract after another?

PCL's contract has been one of the laggards for a while in the regional industry, so getting it up to industry-average along with some excellent scope is certainly helpful to the pattern. What stopped ASA from being able to get an industry-leading contract a couple of years ago was the fact that there were several laggards in the industry (TSA, PCL, MAG). If those carriers had had industry-average agreements, then achieving an industry-leading agreement at places like ASA, XJT, and CMR would be a lot easier. Pattern bargaining is a hell of a lot more complicated than your simplistic notions of "highest pay +1%!"

Just out of curiosity, what is your detailed solution to improving pilot pay and job protections in this industry?

He's just like Joey: he doesn't have any solutions, just mindless complaining.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Just out of curiosity, what is your detailed solution to improving pilot pay and job protections in this industry?

To let the pilots of each carrier negotiate what they deem to be a fair contract. The last thing I would buy into is a pipedream involving every pilot group holding hands and singing "If I could teach the world to sing"

Sorry, but that isn't going to happen.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Lack of change? The PCL pilots have a TA within 7 months of Obama taking office after slogging through no progress for 5 years, and you don't see change?! You're blind as a f&^#ing bat.

If it makes you feel good to give politicians credit for coincidences...be my guest.

Pattern bargaining is a hell of a lot more complicated than your simplistic notions of "highest pay +1%!"

Pattern bargaining is a dreamed up feel-good concept. Where did I mention highest pay plus 1%? All I'm saying is to let the 9E pilots decide what works for them, without having every other ALPA carrier out there telling them what's really in their best interest. Or is that too fair?

He's just like Joey: he doesn't have any solutions, just mindless complaining.

Hmmmm...9E pilots determining what's a fair contract...nah...that's not pragmatic at all!

 

[PCL_128]

If it makes you feel good to give politicians credit for coincidences...be my guest.

You should probably talk to some people that deal directly with the NMB before you assume what is a coincidence and what is not.

Pattern bargaining is a dreamed up feel-good concept. Where did I mention highest pay plus 1%? All I'm saying is to let the 9E pilots decide what works for them, without having every other ALPA carrier out there telling them what's really in their best interest. Or is that too fair?

Hmmmm...9E pilots determining what's a fair contract...nah...that's not pragmatic at all!

I have no problem with the PCL pilots determining what is acceptable them. In fact, that's pretty much what I've been saying throughout this thread. Make an educated decision on what is best. Pretty simple.

 

[Smarta$$]

To let the pilots of each carrier negotiate what they deem to be a fair contract. The last thing I would buy into is a pipedream involving every pilot group holding hands and singing "If I could teach the world to sing"

Sorry, but that isn't going to happen.

Just what I thought. Nothing usefull what so ever.

 

[MINIME]

Lack of change? The PCL pilots have a TA within 7 months of Obama taking office after slogging through no progress for 5 years, and you don't see change?! You're blind as a f&^#ing bat.

Sadly, this is one of our profession's worst problems, most of us simply don't understand something as basic as the NMB. We don't understand how it's appointed, who is appointed, or what the appointee's agenda might be. Plus, the huge impact it has on our leverage at the bargaining table.

It's very simple gents, if management doesn't think you'll be allowed to strike, then they have no reason to settle. If I was management I'd do the same thing! Why not? Why pay when there's no legal way for you to make me pay. It has nothing to do with ethics or happy go lucky feelings. It has everything to do with dollars and the bottom line. At least at most places anyway.