Pinnacle Files for Bankruptcy

[PCL_128]

Yeah but useless for all practical purposes.

Tell that to the Mesaba pilots who were around for the last bankruptcy. They certainly wouldn't have turned out so well if it weren't for ALPA, Captain Wychor, and the rest of the MSA ALPA team. Unions have one hand tied behind their back in bankruptcy, but having one is far better than not having one.

 

[Flyer1015]

Tell that to the Mesaba pilots who were around for the last bankruptcy. They certainly wouldn't have turned out so well if it weren't for ALPA, Captain Wychor, and the rest of the MSA ALPA team. Unions have one hand tied behind their back in bankruptcy, but having one is far better than not having one.

Don't confuse the last round 2005 bankruptcy to this one, it's entirely apples to oranges. The external factors at play are far worse today than they were in 2005. There is no negotiating snap-back provisions today as it was back then. Today, the company told Wychor it would have to be a permanent 5% paycut as a pre-condition to continue meeting. He turned it down, and rightfully so. It still doesn't change the fact that ALPA will basically become useless as the court systems are used to pillage and screw the pilots. The same thing for American Eagle!

 

[PCL_128]

Every bankruptcy is different, but saying it's apples to oranges isn't accurate. It's more like green apples compared to red apples. There are variations, but an apple is still an apple, and a bankruptcy is still a bankruptcy. ALPA will not be useless. The union's job will be difficult, but the pilots will turn out better as a result of having representation than if they didn't have representation.

 

[Raskal]

Every bankruptcy is different, but saying it's apples to oranges isn't accurate. It's more like green apples compared to red apples. There are variations, but an apple is still an apple, and a bankruptcy is still a bankruptcy. ALPA will not be useless. The union's job will be difficult, but the pilots will turn out better as a result of having representation than if they didn't have representation.

I had friends here during the shamruptcy, but even then, wasn't a 50% paycut actually approved by the judge, although the company didn't implement it? The market for employees was different then...this time why wouldn't they run with it? Look at what Mesa ended up with. No one is more powerful than a bankruptcy judge-to think otherwise is a stunning display of naivete.

 

[Flyer1015]

Every bankruptcy is different, but saying it's apples to oranges isn't accurate. It's more like green apples compared to red apples. There are variations, but an apple is still an apple, and a bankruptcy is still a bankruptcy. ALPA will not be useless. The union's job will be difficult, but the pilots will turn out better as a result of having representation than if they didn't have representation.

Ok, I could agree with that. But my point is once 1113 is filed, things against your will are imposed and ALPA is helpless at that point. Plus, don't get me started on ALPA.... trying to serve two masters when in reality it can only serve one. Trying to protect and speak up for one masters well-being, which directly affects the other master (regionals). I would love regional flying to be taken back into mainline, but I did have a problem seeing my dues at work at ALPA while they protested flying I did. You can't have it both ways.

Anyway, I moved onto a non-union carrier and ALPA sent a letter stating that they were sorry to hear I left to a carrier not represented by ALPA. Then they offered me a chance to continue receiving the ALPA pilot magazine (along with a few other perks) for $50 per year. I smiled, tore that letter up, and threw it straight into the kitchen garbage can.

 

[DoinTime]

I had friends here during the shamruptcy, but even then, wasn't a 50% paycut actually approved by the judge, although the company didn't implement it?

The judge granted Mesaba's request to impose contract terms on their pilots. For whatever reason, the Mesaba executives at the time chose not to impose and settle negotiations with ALPA. If PNCL's request to impose is granted this time, will they let that right go unused?

 

[Flyer1015]

The judge granted Mesaba's request to impose contract terms on their pilots. For whatever reason, the Mesaba executives at the time chose not to impose and settle negotiations with ALPA. If PNCL's request to impose is granted this time, will they let that right go unused?

Of course not! How else will they get payraises for senior management?

 

[titans10]

I love when people throw out random info with no source

Believe what you want. Delta will get ride of alot more 200's. Good luck.

 

[silver02ex]

Believe what you want. Delta will get ride of alot more 200's. Good luck.

Ok when is that? That's like me saying Delta will get rid of all DC9, you seem to know about it, so tell us how many and when? Yes you are right, they will be gone it's just a matter of "when" if they are going to leave this year or next, it would have been mention when it was announce that the 16 CRJ9 are leaving also.

 

[Raskal]

Ok when is that? That's like me saying Delta will get rid of all DC9, you seem to know about it, so tell us how many and when? Yes you are right, they will be gone it's just a matter of "when" if they are going to leave this year or next, it would have been mention when it was announce that the 16 CRJ9 are leaving also.

This whole "getting rid of 200's" thing is a bit confusing to me. Ok, so they get rid of them. Then what? That lift can't just disappear, DAL needs the feed. 76 seaters are topped out. Although it's cute to think a 777 will fly from smaller airports the reality is different.

So, logically, the next step is to replace the 200's with the new 100 seaters. Great. Where do they go? Bottom of the list at DAL? I hope so, but in the last week alone I've had two 777 capts in my jumpseat say the exact same line when talking about this: "Scope isn't as important now with the 100 seaters..." Both times my eyes bugged out of my head. I sincerely hope the Delta pilots hold on the scope thing but frankly, I'm thinking management will throw some money and retirement bennies aimed at the senior group and scope will weaken. The junior guys won't be able to hold the vote (can they ever?) and this whole wretched mess will start all over again but with the 100 seaters.

 

[JustaNumber]

The whole regional model needs to change otherwise this is going to start happening to all the regional airlines, one by one. The bidding wars and race to the bottom is destroying the industry. The only thing that will fix it is much tighter regulations and something to level out the playing field like minimum wages for pilots based on equipment types. If we're going to be bound by the RLA, then there needs to be better protection for the airline workers. Everytime the price of fuel farts, someone's going bankrupt.

This industry needs heavy regulation.

The government is CAUSING the wave of bankruptcies. Why would you want them to meddle even more? Not to mention, history PROVES that forced involuntary wage and price controls always lead to screwed-up markets.

Every time a government judge allows one side of a contract to not honor its agreement, that entity gets a competitive advantage over others who are honoring their agreements. Then the others have to play the BK game just to compete with the "cheaters". Notice how ALL the majors have now had to declare BK since 9/11? Now the government is allowing the same contract violations to ruin the regional industry.

The Constitution authorizes the government to ensure that contracts are enforced. The current use of Ch.11 ensures that companies have government protection when they don't meet their obligations. Chapter 11 of the bankruptcy process is fundamentally unconstitutional. It kills industries, it doesn't save them.

 

[RJLoser]

...................

 

[suupah]

I might be missing something but where are some you guys getting the 2022 contract extention on the 200's

Menke said it on the employee call

 

[Flyer1015]

Somehow I don't think Delta will keep all CRJ-200s at Pinnacle Corp for another 10 years. There's just no way, not when gas is as expensive as it is and when there's already a glut of -200s.

 

[Turtle21]

Ok, I could agree with that. But my point is once 1113 is filed, things against your will are imposed and ALPA is helpless at that point. Plus, don't get me started on ALPA.... trying to serve two masters when in reality it can only serve one. Trying to protect and speak up for one masters well-being, which directly affects the other master (regionals). I would love regional flying to be taken back into mainline, but I did have a problem seeing my dues at work at ALPA while they protested flying I did. You can't have it both ways.

Anyway, I moved onto a non-union carrier and ALPA sent a letter stating that they were sorry to hear I left to a carrier not represented by ALPA. Then they offered me a chance to continue receiving the ALPA pilot magazine (along with a few other perks) for $50 per year. I smiled, tore that letter up, and threw it straight into the kitchen garbage can.

Read it? Tore it up? That was a terrible waste of time... Could have just thrown it straight in the toilet. :lol:

 

[JumpersAway]

I wonder if Delta is providing DIP financing and extending the 200 contract as an investment opportunity. Perhaps they are trying to "sweeten" the pot for a buy out, by someone like SkyWest Inc. If this is done, and Delta has a controlling interest, or some stock, they stand to make a pretty penny from a sale.

 

[Raskal]

I wonder if Delta is providing DIP financing and extending the 200 contract as an investment opportunity. Perhaps they are trying to "sweeten" the pot for a buy out, by someone like SkyWest Inc. If this is done, and Delta has a controlling interest, or some stock, they stand to make a pretty penny from a sale.

What?! An ulterior motive? And money at that?! Bite your tongue sir, just bite it! Delta is as pure as the driven ho! I mean snow...

 

[Thebadcat1313]

I wonder if Delta is providing DIP financing and extending the 200 contract as an investment opportunity. Perhaps they are trying to "sweeten" the pot for a buy out, by someone like SkyWest Inc. If this is done, and Delta has a controlling interest, or some stock, they stand to make a pretty penny from a sale.

Certainly anythings possible, however, after the expressjet purchase I HIGHLY doubt Skywest Inc will ever buy another airline. This has been very painful for Jerry and the Board....

 

[russtgol]

Certainly anythings possible, however, after the expressjet purchase I HIGHLY doubt Skywest Inc will ever buy another airline. This has been very painful for Jerry and the Board....

They have buyers remorse..During the last confrence call they said they won't do that again.. Buying exjet was a huge mistake.should have just let them fold and take the assests.

 

[trip]

"sweeten" the pot for a buy out, by someone like SkyWest Inc.

Buy what? you don't own anything, it's all leased or owned by DL.

Hopefully this will be another warning to those companies that play "fast and loose" with the bidding of contracts with hopes of sweeter things to come.