Pinnacle Delta Flow-through

[ohplease!]

And a red herring is all this will ever be. For shame, for shame.

How 'bout we do it this way:

we wait 'til early next year, after the parking of dc9's/md88/90's and massive furlough from Delta/Northwest and the next 2-3 rounds of swapping 50's for 900's, THEN we agree to a "flow-up" after we've given preferential hiring to the furloughed Delta pilots and they begin to fill our right seats as new hires. That way they can reap the benefits of said "flow" and become superior skilled Mainline pilots with over bloated egos....how'd that be?

oh yeah, lets not have a "flow" that forces anyone that does want to move to mainline to move to mainline.

 

[Monster Buck]

Really....How long do you think it would take before this magical "flowup" would happen....I would put it at 5 years from NOW...and that's BEST case scenario.

Secondly, after my life improving "flow up"....How along before I get back to getting my choice of 18 days off a month, 4(12) weeks of vacation, at 110K a year?

I use to inflate how much I made also. Lets see. With 18 days of a month...216 off. 4-12 weeks off for vacation 12x7=84. lets say you only add 4 days off each of those 12 times that would be 22 days off a month. so you work 8. with the minuscule time you get for sick and only get paid for four of your vacations.....8 days of work x 12 = 96 110000/96=1145/day...flying 8 every single day of the year you make 143 dollars an hour...given a small inflation for vacation and sick pay....bs...not for a line pilot. I have read your contract...there is no way to credit enough every single month with all those sick calls and days off with your contract to get a 140 an hour average.

Even if you go with 12 days a month of work, 18 days of work, no vacation or sick on top, that's about 100 dollars an hour with 8 hours every single day you come to work. BS

Is it possible? Yes. An 18 year CRJ 700 captain flying his azz of every single month without even one month of a break. But not with 18+ days off a month and your 12 weeks of time off for vacation/sick. You get enough sick time to cover what...one four day a year?

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

100s of 50 seaters are going to go away. Thats a fact. Now, with scope set at 255 70+ seat aircraft unless mainline grows,(which we are getting close to ) what do you think is going to happen at the sub-contractors? My guess is furloughs, and some going away completly. If you are at one of the more senior, expensive sub-contractors I would be very worried. Do I think mainline is going to furlough? Yes. Do I think mainline is going to allow an increase in large rjs(above the 255) while we furlough or stagnate for years.. NFW. Not without another ch11 and even then you might see a different, more militant reaction this time as we have been there, done that thing already. Again, time will tell.

How 'bout we do it this way:

we wait 'til early next year, after the parking of dc9's/md88/90's and massive furlough from Delta/Northwest and the next 2-3 rounds of swapping 50's for 900's, THEN we agree to a "flow-up" after we've given preferential hiring to the furloughed Delta pilots and they begin to fill our right seats as new hires. That way they can reap the benefits of said "flow" and become superior skilled Mainline pilots with over bloated egos....how'd that be?

oh yeah, lets not have a "flow" that forces anyone that does want to move to mainline to move to mainline.

 

[CFI2766]

Frankly, the idea of a mainline guy 'flowing' to the top of the left seat DCI list, thereby displacing everyone on said DCI list down one number, is categorically a bad idea for the DCI people. To attempt to spin it otherwise, as has been the case with this thread, is a perversion of logic.

(If this thought process is such a good idea, then why don't we flow the DCI pilot to the top of the left seat mainline list everytime [which wouldn't be often, if ever...] a flow up occurs? It's the same logic.)

Clearly, there is a double standard here with regards to the careers of mainline vs. DCI pilots. How could a DCI pilot be expected to agree to, vote for, and support this lunacy?

Now, if there were a way for the interests of the DCI guys to be considered with the same weight of the mainline pilots, I think that there could be a way to make this happen. Could someone on the mainline side of the house please suggest something that is a win/win suggestion? To date, I've not heard any of that kind of thinking.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

We are at 223 70/76 seat jets. After these are delivered that were part of the 76 seat scope grievance settlement there are only 32 more than can be delivered. Fact is that they are not even on order yet. That should tell you something.
They may swap out 70 seat jets for the 76 seater, but even with six first class seats the expenditure is zero sum. That is unless one of the manufacturer decides to give DAL no penalty to do so.

 

[CFI2766]

Also, if this mainline version of a 'flow' were put in place, who would pay for it? There would be massive costs involved with giving an RJ type, or possibly retraining, to anyone who flowed down to the mainline list.

Would management, either DCI or Mainline, pay for the retraining? Highly doubtful.

Would ALPA pay for the training? Again, HIGHLY doubtful. (Imagine the scenario where a DCI guy's ALPA dues were used to train a 'flowed' mainline guy to take his job. There would be hell to pay.)

It's all well and good to discuss possible scenarios of musical chairs, but the reality is that the costs of such a proposal would probably kill it from the outset.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

How 'bout we do it this way:

we wait 'til early next year, after the parking of dc9's/md88/90's and massive furlough from Delta/Northwest and the next 2-3 rounds of swapping 50's for 900's, THEN we agree to a "flow-up" after we've given preferential hiring to the furloughed Delta pilots and they begin to fill our right seats as new hires. That way they can reap the benefits of said "flow" and become superior skilled Mainline pilots with over bloated egos....how'd that be?

It is absolutely amazing that little rj can handle that big ego!:laugh:

oh yeah, lets not have a "flow" that forces anyone that does want to move to mainline to move to mainline.

Or that leaves anyone not qualified like you scraping the bottom of toilets where you belong!

 

[FDJ2]

We are at 223 70/76 seat jets. After these are delivered that were part of the 76 seat scope grievance settlement there are only 32 more than can be delivered. Fact is that they are not even on order yet. That should tell you something.

FWIW, Delta can't take delivery of anymore 76 seat aircraft until the mainline fleet grows above 767 aircraft. The total number of 70/76 seat aircraft at DCI can not exceed 255.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I know that FDJ. But they can order them. They have not done that.

 

[staylow]

Flow through is mainline furlough midigation. American Eagle is the perfect example. There is no such thing as flow up...just flow back. Of the 115 guys who flowed up got to flow back shortly after that. Lee Moak and Delta's MEC is more than aware that they are going to have to furlough a ton of pilots in the near future. How perfect if they could get "flow backs" with Compass, Mesaba, and Comair. He would be the hero that saves the day when he finds places for their 2000 pilot who get flushed. I think most of us agree that "no" is the vote for flow back. In fact the only guys who will vote for it will be the "want something for nothing" guys. Sad.

 

[flyboyike]

Frankly, the idea of a mainline guy 'flowing' to the top of the left seat DCI list, thereby displacing everyone on said DCI list down one number, is categorically a bad idea for the DCI people. To attempt to spin it otherwise, as has been the case with this thread, is a perversion of logic.

It certainly is.

 

[flyboyike]

Lee Moak and Delta's MEC is more than aware that they are going to have to furlough a ton of pilots in the near future. How perfect if they could get "flow backs" with Compass, Mesaba, and Comair. He would be the hero that saves the day when he finds places for their 2000 pilot who get flushed.

IOW, he's doing his job by protecting his people. I don't blame him for a second, but don't tell me what a great deal it is for me.

 

[Grinder10]

Thanks but no thanks on the flow idea. It hasn't worked yet and it won't in the future. I'll take my chances with the standard interview.

 

[NuGuy]

Well, there you have it. Flow through is a bad idea. Said and done.

Therefor, it's time to press on without them. Negotiate with management to recapture the 70 seat flying, and make sure it appears as "business decision" on the part of management. Allow a "slow unwind".

Grab the CPZ 175s. We already represent the CPZ pilots, and need to hire for the 175, so they get onboard via the flow.

Next order of business, terminate all 70+ seat flying done by wholly owned DCI. Pay the cancellation penalties, or let the contracts lapse on the rest.

Park Comair outright, terminate all the employees, and sell the aircraft. Rewind Mesaba to flying only Saabs, and do the same as Comair to the rest.

Remember, they didn't want to play, so no whining. You guys can collect unemployment.

It's a setup. Don't play ball, and this scenario is very real. Management is tired of the games and the piss poor service.

Nu

 

[imacdog]

You are so funny, NuGuy! I'm picking myself off the floor after reading your post. Recapturing 70-seat flying, tee hee! It's management's wet dream to have regional carriers competing for contracts, but don't let that reality get in the way of your bullcrap.