Pinnacle Buying Colgan

[Prop2Jet]

Fing sad.

 

[Prop2Jet]

Hey I heard their is a Colgan RJ class in March? is this true?




Just kidding ! Good morning!

Have a great weekend brothers

 

[Lear70]

I thought you left Pinnacle a long time ago??? Did you come back, because it sure seems like it!!

LOL - coming up on 10 months.

Have several friends still there (some of which I'm trying to help get out), so I still have a vested interest in what goes on.

Not to mention that I've profited nicely 3 times off stock purchases keeping my "ear to the ground" on PCL stock. This helps me stay in tune with what's going on and recognize good rumor from bullsh*t.

Fly safe!

 

[Kaman]

Wow....you fly a Saab and your calling a CRJ an underpowered piece of crap? Now thats rich!

FOR THE RECORD I FLY THE BEECH...AND THE SAAB IS ALSO AN UNDERPOWERED TURD WITH WINGS.

 

[FIXIT]

Colgan needs to start an ALPA drive NOW!!! For the sake of both sides.

ALPA leave us alone. Unions are the devil.

 

[suupah]

PCL and Colgan airlines will never "merge." There is no operational advantage in doing this as the carriers don't have anything in common. Whats at stake (for pilots anyway) is operating as a single seniority list under a common contract. This is optimal for both groups as it eliminates the possibility of whipsaw and boosts barganing power. Colgan pilots get the added benefit of enhanced career progression and earnings that larger/faster aircraft bring.

because with the fast upgrade at colgan many of the captains will become too junior to hold captain.

 

[suupah]

Kaman, No one meant this as a personal attack against you. This going going to be a simple play by PCL management to try and end run around our scope section. The section is pretty clear that ANY holding company flying will belong to the PCL pilot list. We hope to win this in Federal court soon and bring ALL Colgan pilots into the fold with us. We need to work together against this kind of power grab. This is what PCL management is all about unfortunately.

well i am sure as heck not going to sit reserve in msp for 21 bucks an hour because we wanted to join the illustrious and very effective ALPA. ALPA has done wonders for your guy's quality of life! just ask any pinnacle pilot how great their working conditoins are compared to colgan and you will immediately see the utility of a union.

 

[redflyer65]

Unfortunately Suupah, You have yet to understand how Pinnacle likes to run things. If we didn't have a union in house they would have EVERYONE on reserve for any period of time that you weren't flying. Seriously, that's their take on pilots' QOL. They don't even like the 1000 hours in a year regulation. It burns them up. So yes, I am VERY glad we have a union here. It's my early opinion that you would be best to have one there. But it probably won't take very long for PCL management to stick their finger in your schedulinig practices. I bet they are licking their chops now that they have a non-union carrier. They have never wanted ALPA on property from day one and do everything within their power to not deal with our union.

Extensions and Junior Manning are the norm here. It's how they like to run and staff and airline. I don't mean to be throwing you a downer, it's just the reality of PCL.

 

[n32jk]

LOL - coming up on 10 months.

Have several friends still there (some of which I'm trying to help get out), so I still have a vested interest in what goes on.

Not to mention that I've profited nicely 3 times off stock purchases keeping my "ear to the ground" on PCL stock. This helps me stay in tune with what's going on and recognize good rumor from bullsh*t.

Fly safe!

Careful Rich that might be considered "Nay-Sayer Trading"

 

[suupah]

TO ALL COLGAN PILOTS. "NO ALPA". If we unionize lets get someone else. stay separate from pinnacle ALPA.

its

 

[suupah]

TO ALL COLGAN PILOTS. "NO ALPA". If we unionize lets get someone else. stay separate from pinnacle ALPA.

 

[n32jk]

Wow....you fly a Saab and your calling a CRJ an underpowered piece of crap? Now thats rich!

FOR THE RECORD I FLY THE BEECH...AND THE SAAB IS ALSO AN UNDERPOWERED TURD WITH WINGS.

These are all very GOOD aircraft for cetain missions. The Saab has been a work horse for the regional industry. The aircraft just came out much heavier than they expected hence the CT7 becoming the CT75A2 and later a stop gap Saab B with the CT9. All the while waiting to unleash the mighty Saab 2000 which the CRJ summarily killed. Before it could launch the 2000 the CRJ showed up with more performance at nearly the same price in a REAL jet (well almost)

Now the CRJ actually stands for climb restricted jet. But it still does what it does for amazing efficiency. The economic killer for the CRJ will eventually be the debt service/aquisition cost, not the efficiency actual operations cost. I know they all roll in together. But that is why O&D ops in a CRJ is a joke,,,right Indy (I am not normal)

Both great aircraft for their day..... What day is it anyway?????

 

[ts770]

Is Pinnacle union?

Yes they are union. What does ALPA have to do with Maintenance?
Not too concerned about it--no longer a Colgan holding the purse strings.

Fixit--you rock. You know my opinion on unions. Say hi to my son.

 

[Smarta$$]

Yes they are union. What does ALPA have to do with Maintenance?
Not too concerned about it--no longer a Colgan holding the purse strings.

Fixit--you rock. You know my opinion on unions. Say hi to my son.

So you expect the company to look out for your best interest? Good luck with that.

By the way, get your head out of the sand.

 

[redflyer65]

If you had ALPA there, it would be Colgan ALPA. It would be your union and not have anything to do with the Pinnacle group other than working together for the better of BOTH pilot groups.I have heard rumors that when Colgan tried to unionize a few times in the past, certain pilots were pulled off the line for an unscheduled PC. Any truth to this? Sounds illegal to me.

 

[dingo222]

its very true. The colgans have kept the union off the property for 40 years. But under the colgan's, pilots didnt need a union. The pilots knew exactly what they were getting into, and the colgans over time proved that they could be trusted. They had just as much interest in the company as the pilots becuase it was a family owned business. They were fair, and respected for that. They didn't pull tricks like some other airlines do. Yeah, ppl got hosed on certain items, whch wasn't right.

 

[redflyer65]

I'm glad to hear that it has worked out in the past, but unfortunately, this PCL management can not be trusted. They have outright lied to us MULTIPLE times when it has come to contract negotiations. You be the judge.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

I think that what you don't understand about Colgan is only the top 50 pilots have been here more than 6 years. As someone said, "Colgan is like a Part 121 Air Net type operation". People stay here, get their 2 types and a couple of types and move on. This has been going on since 1992 when Chuck senior and his son bought the operating certificate back from the failed Presidential Airways.
Having said all that you are going to see anywhere from outright militant attitudes of wanting to have ALPA show up tommorow complete with lanyards to total apathy. Of course, this will be like a bell curve with alot of people just waiting too see which way to jump. If the turboprop flying remains with the CJC side then I think you will have a non-issue. Looking at your payscales and our's. Can it get much worse? I think that both sides have a vested interest, but Colgan pilots are the one's with the least leverage and no protection. There is nothing to stop the new ownership from completely scrapping our way of operating (i.e., outbasing and short upgrades). If a whipsaw takes place, than it won't be on Colgan's pilot group. We are the pawns in this high stakes game of airline monopoly where the stakes aren't play money, but the careers and families of the pilots caught in the middle. Let's hope that management has some respect for the hard-work that we put into this job. If not, to hell with them and I'm going to go drive a truck.

Relax. It will only cost you less than 2 percent of your $48/hour!

 

[vtchaz]

Relax. It will only cost you less than 2 percent of your $48/hour!

Because they've done so much for you guys with your less than 2% you give them...

In fact doesn't your company consistently go against your contract and when called on it respond with "file a grievance with your union and we'll get to it in a few years"??? Don't tell me they don't because I know otherwise from my friends at 9E.

Sounds pretty effective to me...

No Thanks, I think we'll stick with the devil we know.

 

[Grinder10]

Good point. 9E management/scheduling does violate the contract often, but there is the grievance process to rectify the problem. Just imagine what they would do if they didn't have any "binding" rules to play by. It's completely up to the Colgan pilot group if they want to organize or not. We are just trying to give our new stepbrothers a heads up on how best to deal with the crap that PT likes to hand out. You work for an uncaring corporation now, not a family. You've never met a devil like this.

 

[flyboy006]

Who the hell makes $48 over here at Colgan.. Not me.. maybe if i made something like that i would consider 2% but seeing what they have done for you so far i would still pass..

 

[se1776]

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/artic...01-18_16-22-00_WNAS7613&type=comktNews&rpc=44

 

[Smarta$$]

Because they've done so much for you guys with your less than 2% you give them...

In fact doesn't your company consistently go against your contract and when called on it respond with "file a grievance with your union and we'll get to it in a few years"??? Don't tell me they don't because I know otherwise from my friends at 9E.

Sounds pretty effective to me...

No Thanks, I think we'll stick with the devil we know.

Let me try to understand your arguement. You are aware that the company that now owns you and will integrate system operational control over you has a reputation for not following their agreed too scheduling rules. Yet you feel that you are better off going up against said company on your own? You guys need to understand that things have changed. The status quo will not be the same for long. What did not seem neccesary weeks ago is very neccesary NOW. If you don't see that things have changed you need to get your head out of the sand.

 

[ts770]

So you expect the company to look out for your best interest? Good luck with that.

By the way, get your head out of the sand.

I'm not stupid enough to think the company OR union has my best interest in mind. They're both all about the money. If you think the union really cares about you keeping a job try asking the folks at Eastern or NWA. Having been screwed by a union and Coex in the past, I'll take my chances deciding for myself where I work and keep putting what I would've paid in union dues into the bank.

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Let me get this straight a 2nd year fo at Pinnacle makes 24 dollars an hour and a 2nd year Fo makes 23 dollars an hour at Colgan and how does a union help us?

 

[SELCAL checks]

Let me get this straight a 2nd year fo at Pinnacle makes 24 dollars an hour and a 2nd year Fo makes 23 dollars an hour at Colgan and how does a union help us?

Because without a union, Pinnacle can lower that to 18/hour tonight... with nothing more than a memo.

Because without a union, Pinnacle can decide to bring on a new aircraft type and IMPOSE a payrate with you, instead of negotiating a fair one with you.... with nothing more than a memo.

Pinnacle can and WILL (maybe not this week, or next month, but soon), make changes to your quality of life... and you are powerless.

The only vote you have currently is one cast with a resignation letter. You have no power, no protection, and basically no rights.

If you all remain a seperate entity, and vote in a union. The union will consist of YOU! Colgan pilots! You will negotiate a fair contract, you will have the resources of ALPA at your disposal to enforce the contract. You will have the power to avoid being used as a pawn in the whipsaw game. The days of working for a small, family owned business ended yesterday. Pinnacle didn't buy Colgan in order to operate 40 or 50+ airplanes, you are about to become a sizable regional airline.

I've worked for union and non-union carriers. Never in my life did I ever imagine such an anti-labor management group existed, but the devil does exist... and he resides on Nonconnah Blvd. I hope you all make an informed decision, instead of relying on what the status quo has been under the Colgan family. Remember, Colgan isn't calling the shots anymore.

 

[redflyer65]

Here's the deal. The Pinnacle pilot group agreement specifically calls for scope provisions with anyone that is above PCL Airlines. That company is now PCL Corporation. Therefore, all flying done at PCL Corp is to be done by the PCL pilot list. Colgan pilots will eventually be integrated, whether management wants it or not. I think we haven't heard much from ALPA because they are getting ready to file their lawsuit in Federal Court. Then we will hear something.

 

[TurboAWD]

As a 9E pilot, I can not imagine anyone here is stupid enough to look down on a Colgan pilot. If there are any, believe me, they will be shown the error of their thinking.

As for Colgan pilots getting screwed in an integration process, think again. Attrition is so high at both companies that upgrades will continue to go junior at both operations for a long time. The Colgan operation now has access to more capital to fund expansion (Q400, etc). Fences would prevent anyone from being kicked out of their base/seat. If a Colgan pilot wanted the oportunity to fly a bigger aircraft for more $$$, they would have the oportunity to bid for it, while keeping logevity for pay and not having to start over at the bottom of someones list.

Anyone that blames the low pay or contractual issues at 9E on ALPA is flat wrong. They are working hard to improve things, and mgmt is working hard NOT to improve things. If it wasn't for our contract and representation, I gaurentee that our health insurance prices would have doubled (with less coverage), our CA pay would have been cut, everyone would be on reserve esentially all of the time, and anyone who stood up to the BS would loose their job.

To Colgan pilots: Nice to meet you. Looking forward to working with you on running safe airlines and getting the contract we both deserve. Hope WE can get the Q400, I used to fly the 100/200/300 and it's a great airplane. The jet isn't really as much fun to fly, but it does have some perks.

See you around,
Turbo

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

I think I am going to throw up

 

[Lear70]

Because without a union, Pinnacle can lower that to 18/hour tonight... with nothing more than a memo.

Because without a union, Pinnacle can decide to bring on a new aircraft type and IMPOSE a payrate with you, instead of negotiating a fair one with you.... with nothing more than a memo.

Pinnacle can and WILL (maybe not this week, or next month, but soon), make changes to your quality of life... and you are powerless.

The only vote you have currently is one cast with a resignation letter. You have no power, no protection, and basically no rights.

BINGO!

Dubya, I hope you were taking notes.