Pinnacle Buying Colgan

[suupah]

So how about all the barely legal 18 year old flight attendents right from high school. No work history or brains for that matter that colgan hires, personally by chuck. You guys from 9E wanna take a slice off them? Wait untill the dude from MSNBC petafile show walks out of the LAV that needs service and asks, "Enjoying the flight"? Then ask you so why do you work here? Then you try to explain she hit the call button to ask if you are busy? "Just to say Hi? and like ummmm and stuff......." Then the dude can ask did you know she was only 17? I will say no I thought 18 since she works at COLGAN.....

 

[suupah]

30West............................? If we needed back up in the IAD parking lot I hope you would be there.....Hell ya

 

[beechcowboy]

I hate this stupid site, but with this announcement, curiosity got the best of me. I was curious to see how emotional this thread could get. Alot of you have voiced your opinion that Colgan needs to unionize. It is no secret that they have avoided this at all costs. The Colgan's did not want the headache of having their pilots have an official voice at the table. It was just easier to tell you what, how, and when... if you don't like it, find another job. The Colgan's aren't all bad, but in my opinion they were not trying to continuosly improve; they were not trying to be the best. If you aren't trying to be the best, then I don't want to be a part of your operation. For that reason I bailed out of Colgan at upgrade time a few years ago and came to Express Jet. I have never regretted the move for one solitary second. Express is a fantastic company. I went from flying 15 MELs to flying with maybe, and I mean maybe 1 a month. Everything was different. Part of the reason for that is that XJT pilots are represented by ALPA, and we maintain a solid, harmonious working relationship with our management team. We know that we can live or die together and that we must coexist to be successful. Since joining XJT, I have become more involved in all aspects of the company. I deal in ASAP issues and am a representative for our ALPA Contract Compliance Committee, in addition to serving as a local rep in EWR. It has been an awakening. I am not a bible beating diehard like some might be; but I can tell you that the value of a unionized workforce is priceless. If for no other reason, Colgan pilots need to join the family of ALPA pilots so that our collective interests are represented in this industry. Are there endless politics, ABSOLUTELY! However, keep in mind that the most imporant thing you are acheiving is a voice at the table, a coordinated effort to represent the collective interests of your pilots. This is an opportunity to argue your value as a group, not as individual employee numbers. We all know how well we fare when we take on the powers that be as individuals. As a prior Colgan pilot, I found their MX methodologies to be unacceptable and felt that too many Captains were becoming scape goats for the company's shortfalls. A union can help stand up to such problems. More importantly, you have the support of thousands of other members. The legal benefits of ALPA are endless. Any ALPA pilot who has ever found himself in a real pickle can testify to the endless resources that were utilized to aid his / her cause. I have seen it with my own eyes. I have helped make it happen. Every night I am buring up the email to help correct contractual issues, inform pilots on contractual misunderstandings, and communicate directly with upper management on present issues. Not everyone's management is perfect; we are lucky. Bottom line, with ALPA you have the opportunity to negotiate better wages and work rules, and improve your quality of life. You have an opportunity to hold the company to its seniority system, instead of having them skip around the seniority list, upgrading whomever they feel like at the time, as I experienced. It is BS, and you deserve better. Now you are in a position where you can be utilized to provide pressure against another ALPA carrier. The 'ol, these guys can do it cheaper, why shouldn't we go with them? With ALPA representation, we can protect the interests of us all. Do you really want to become the GoJets of the regional world. I'm not threatening, but look at the potential realities. With the election of a new ALPA President, the approach is changing. We are becoming more aggressive about reclaiming some of what our fellow members have given up. At the end of the day, if we are divided, our job is much harder. If we unite, and refuse to undercut one another, our voice is stronger, and our mission is will be more successful. Think about it, make an educated decision. Your ALPA dues are not really that much. Think about your future right now; don't just assume that Colgan is a stepping stone. Obviously, for some people, it is not. What is to come of them? I would happily welcome some of my old Colgan buddies to the club, a club that, through our focus and dedication, will help to secure our collective futures, and consequently those of our loved ones. Sorry for the long post, but I know your minds are spinning with possibilities right now, and I just wanted to give you something to consider. Good luck and fly safe.

 

[Smarta$$]

I hate this stupid site, but with this announcement, curiosity got the best of me. I was curious to see how emotional this thread could get. Alot of you have voiced your opinion that Colgan needs to unionize. It is no secret that they have avoided this at all costs. The Colgan's did not want the headache of having their pilots have an official voice at the table. It was just easier to tell you what, how, and when... if you don't like it, find another job. The Colgan's aren't all bad, but in my opinion they were not trying to continuosly improve; they were not trying to be the best. If you aren't trying to be the best, then I don't want to be a part of your operation. For that reason I bailed out of Colgan at upgrade time a few years ago and came to Express Jet. I have never regretted the move for one solitary second. Express is a fantastic company. I went from flying 15 MELs to flying with maybe, and I mean maybe 1 a month. Everything was different. Part of the reason for that is that XJT pilots are represented by ALPA, and we maintain a solid, harmonious working relationship with our management team. We know that we can live or die together and that we must coexist to be successful. Since joining XJT, I have become more involved in all aspects of the company. I deal in ASAP issues and am a representative for our ALPA Contract Compliance Committee, in addition to serving as a local rep in EWR. It has been an awakening. I am not a bible beating diehard like some might be; but I can tell you that the value of a unionized workforce is priceless. If for no other reason, Colgan pilots need to join the family of ALPA pilots so that our collective interests are represented in this industry. Are there endless politics, ABSOLUTELY! However, keep in mind that the most imporant thing you are acheiving is a voice at the table, a coordinated effort to represent the collective interests of your pilots. This is an opportunity to argue your value as a group, not as individual employee numbers. We all know how well we fare when we take on the powers that be as individuals. As a prior Colgan pilot, I found their MX methodologies to be unacceptable and felt that too many Captains were becoming scape goats for the company's shortfalls. A union can help stand up to such problems. More importantly, you have the support of thousands of other members. The legal benefits of ALPA are endless. Any ALPA pilot who has ever found himself in a real pickle can testify to the endless resources that were utilized to aid his / her cause. I have seen it with my own eyes. I have helped make it happen. Every night I am buring up the email to help correct contractual issues, inform pilots on contractual misunderstandings, and communicate directly with upper management on present issues. Not everyone's management is perfect; we are lucky. Bottom line, with ALPA you have the opportunity to negotiate better wages and work rules, and improve your quality of life. You have an opportunity to hold the company to its seniority system, instead of having them skip around the seniority list, upgrading whomever they feel like at the time, as I experienced. It is BS, and you deserve better. Now you are in a position where you can be utilized to provide pressure against another ALPA carrier. The 'ol, these guys can do it cheaper, why shouldn't we go with them? With ALPA representation, we can protect the interests of us all. Do you really want to become the GoJets of the regional world. I'm not threatening, but look at the potential realities. With the election of a new ALPA President, the approach is changing. We are becoming more aggressive about reclaiming some of what our fellow members have given up. At the end of the day, if we are divided, our job is much harder. If we unite, and refuse to undercut one another, our voice is stronger, and our mission is will be more successful. Think about it, make an educated decision. Your ALPA dues are not really that much. Think about your future right now; don't just assume that Colgan is a stepping stone. Obviously, for some people, it is not. What is to come of them? I would happily welcome some of my old Colgan buddies to the club, a club that, through our focus and dedication, will help to secure our collective futures, and consequently those of our loved ones. Sorry for the long post, but I know your minds are spinning with possibilities right now, and I just wanted to give you something to consider. Good luck and fly safe.

Good post.

 

[Smarta$$]

I'd be interested in reading that. Where can I find it?

Notice how I responded without resorting to playground antics? That's how professional pilots act.

No, you started your first post with playground antics by saying we were on a soapbox and being inaccurate.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I hate this stupid site, but with this announcement, curiosity got the best of me. I was curious to see how emotional this thread could get. Alot of you have voiced your opinion that Colgan needs to unionize. It is no secret that they have avoided this at all costs. The Colgan's did not want the headache of having their pilots have an official voice at the table. It was just easier to tell you what, how, and when... if you don't like it, find another job. The Colgan's aren't all bad, but in my opinion they were not trying to continuosly improve; they were not trying to be the best. If you aren't trying to be the best, then I don't want to be a part of your operation. For that reason I bailed out of Colgan at upgrade time a few years ago and came to Express Jet. I have never regretted the move for one solitary second. Express is a fantastic company. I went from flying 15 MELs to flying with maybe, and I mean maybe 1 a month. Everything was different. Part of the reason for that is that XJT pilots are represented by ALPA, and we maintain a solid, harmonious working relationship with our management team. We know that we can live or die together and that we must coexist to be successful. Since joining XJT, I have become more involved in all aspects of the company. I deal in ASAP issues and am a representative for our ALPA Contract Compliance Committee, in addition to serving as a local rep in EWR. It has been an awakening. I am not a bible beating diehard like some might be; but I can tell you that the value of a unionized workforce is priceless. If for no other reason, Colgan pilots need to join the family of ALPA pilots so that our collective interests are represented in this industry. Are there endless politics, ABSOLUTELY! However, keep in mind that the most imporant thing you are acheiving is a voice at the table, a coordinated effort to represent the collective interests of your pilots. This is an opportunity to argue your value as a group, not as individual employee numbers. We all know how well we fare when we take on the powers that be as individuals. As a prior Colgan pilot, I found their MX methodologies to be unacceptable and felt that too many Captains were becoming scape goats for the company's shortfalls. A union can help stand up to such problems. More importantly, you have the support of thousands of other members. The legal benefits of ALPA are endless. Any ALPA pilot who has ever found himself in a real pickle can testify to the endless resources that were utilized to aid his / her cause. I have seen it with my own eyes. I have helped make it happen. Every night I am buring up the email to help correct contractual issues, inform pilots on contractual misunderstandings, and communicate directly with upper management on present issues. Not everyone's management is perfect; we are lucky. Bottom line, with ALPA you have the opportunity to negotiate better wages and work rules, and improve your quality of life. You have an opportunity to hold the company to its seniority system, instead of having them skip around the seniority list, upgrading whomever they feel like at the time, as I experienced. It is BS, and you deserve better. Now you are in a position where you can be utilized to provide pressure against another ALPA carrier. The 'ol, these guys can do it cheaper, why shouldn't we go with them? With ALPA representation, we can protect the interests of us all. Do you really want to become the GoJets of the regional world. I'm not threatening, but look at the potential realities. With the election of a new ALPA President, the approach is changing. We are becoming more aggressive about reclaiming some of what our fellow members have given up. At the end of the day, if we are divided, our job is much harder. If we unite, and refuse to undercut one another, our voice is stronger, and our mission is will be more successful. Think about it, make an educated decision. Your ALPA dues are not really that much. Think about your future right now; don't just assume that Colgan is a stepping stone. Obviously, for some people, it is not. What is to come of them? I would happily welcome some of my old Colgan buddies to the club, a club that, through our focus and dedication, will help to secure our collective futures, and consequently those of our loved ones. Sorry for the long post, but I know your minds are spinning with possibilities right now, and I just wanted to give you something to consider. Good luck and fly safe.

DEATH TO PARAGRAPHS!

(liked the message though...)

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Beechcowboy you are a sellout. Why would you leave that close to upgrade? You are obviously a moron. PIC time is what is important. I think the problem is there is nobody in this company who has the balls to stand up and talk union stuff. It would be very interesting to see union talk start around here. I just don't see it happening without some serious outside intervention. We all need to be informed big time as well and not just through flight info. If a vote would happen today I bet the union would be turned down. I don't know if ALPA plans on approaching us somehow and at the same time majorly informing us but that is the way to go. Posting stuff on flight info and threatening us that we will be the next GO jets isn't going to work with this pilot group. We didnt ask for this crap. Most of us think who the hell cares change won't happen that quick and by the time it does we will have moved on. So if there is anyone out there who is really serious about this you better start moving now and find a way to educuate us all quickly.

 

[Lear70]

Posting stuff on flight info and threatening us that we will be the next GO jets isn't going to work with this pilot group. We didnt ask for this crap. Most of us think who the hell cares change won't happen that quick and by the time it does we will have moved on. So if there is anyone out there who is really serious about this you better start moving now and find a way to educuate us all quickly.

Undoubtedly you are correct, and this is NOT the approach to take from an ADVERSARIAL standpoint, but I don't see too many people BEING adversarial, just being blunt (which does have a tendency to p*ss people off).

I see a LOT of people being defensive, though.

It's not personal, it's a professional interest that has direct bearing on our personal life in terms of income, time off, etc that can be wihpsawed against another group and turn a really decent place into a real sh*thole.

We've seen this before. MANY of us have a LOT of experience in this type of acquisition; my suggestion would be to listen WITHOUT forming an opinion, then sleep on it, then read it again and start applying it to your situation.

Yeah, a lot of toolboxes come out on both sides of any debate - this is the internet, toolboxes abound.

There's also a lot of good information out here and quite a few reps post under various names, trying to keep people informed. If you listen closely, you'll hear them.

Last point: I would like you to think very closely about your last statement above:

Go WHERE?

You're going to "get your time and get out", something THOUSANDS of regional pilots have said before you. Yet you see guys hang around for YEARS and then leave for YET ANOTHER REGIONAL before they get on with a major.

Why is that, do you think?

Food for thought: quite possibly it takes more than the minimum 1000 hours turbine PIC to be seriously looked at with another airline.

A major airline will hire a VERY small number, maybe 1-2% of their total new-hires, with just the bare minimums IF that person has two dozen personal letters of recommendation from Chief Pilots, VP's, or board members.

If you don't have that, you're more than likely going to be competing with the THOUSANDS of pilots who have 4,000-10,000 hours, half of which is PIC Turbine, often PIC Jet time, most of which will have at least ONE recommendation letter to more than one major airline.

Have you ever been to an AIR, Inc conference? THAT'S your competition. THOUSANDS milling around fighting for the few hundred MAJOR jobs available that year.

How does your flight time compare? You might be at Colgan longer than "getting your time and getting out."

Just a thought.

 

[TA/RA]

CAN YOU SAY " BIGSKY MESABA" There is always a way around the law. Case in point... The current Bankruptcy laws. They are going to to to bang you guys just like they are trying to bang us. We have this thing called the Bigsky scope at Mesaba. If a judge overrules it, do you actually expect managment to stick by it... Hell No. Good luck.

I hate to point this out to you if you didn't get it already, but you did get banged.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

The simple truth is that we are all along for the ride on this one. I understand the Colgan folks feelings about all of this, but you have to realize that PCL doesn't invest in anything just to leave it alone. As a matter of fact, we have to expect that their intentions are deceiving and dishonest because that is the track record that they have established for themselves. Please understand that no pilot here at PCL is interested in taking away anything from you, but we will defend at all cost from PCL management to create an "alterego"
This pilot group doesn't have any experience with mergers and acquisitions and that is why our MEC has gone to ALPA national for help, We believe that our scope language is strong (That is why management tried to change it on their numerous, inadequate proposals) Neither of us knows for sure where this will go, but I believe that the best way is to tackle this together. I understand your resilience to unionized labor (Myself being a critic of ALPA big time) But, in all this unknown road that you and us are about to embark on, there is one thing for sure. We need protection from this management (And your pilot group is at the most vulnerable right now, I don't think that you would want to become another Go Jet? Would you?)
Your world has change along with ours for the worst If afraid. Together is the only way to face the challenges that lay ahead.

 

[Mr Wu]

I hate this stupid site, but with this announcement, curiosity got the best of me. I was curious to see how emotional this thread could get. Alot of you have voiced your opinion that Colgan needs to unionize. It is no secret that they have avoided this at all costs. The Colgan's did not want the headache of having their pilots have an official voice at the table. It was just easier to tell you what, how, and when... if you don't like it, find another job. The Colgan's aren't all bad, but in my opinion they were not trying to continuosly improve; they were not trying to be the best. If you aren't trying to be the best, then I don't want to be a part of your operation. For that reason I bailed out of Colgan at upgrade time a few years ago and came to Express Jet. I have never regretted the move for one solitary second. Express is a fantastic company. I went from flying 15 MELs to flying with maybe, and I mean maybe 1 a month. Everything was different. Part of the reason for that is that XJT pilots are represented by ALPA, and we maintain a solid, harmonious working relationship with our management team. We know that we can live or die together and that we must coexist to be successful. Since joining XJT, I have become more involved in all aspects of the company. I deal in ASAP issues and am a representative for our ALPA Contract Compliance Committee, in addition to serving as a local rep in EWR. It has been an awakening. I am not a bible beating diehard like some might be; but I can tell you that the value of a unionized workforce is priceless. If for no other reason, Colgan pilots need to join the family of ALPA pilots so that our collective interests are represented in this industry. Are there endless politics, ABSOLUTELY! However, keep in mind that the most imporant thing you are acheiving is a voice at the table, a coordinated effort to represent the collective interests of your pilots. This is an opportunity to argue your value as a group, not as individual employee numbers. We all know how well we fare when we take on the powers that be as individuals. As a prior Colgan pilot, I found their MX methodologies to be unacceptable and felt that too many Captains were becoming scape goats for the company's shortfalls. A union can help stand up to such problems. More importantly, you have the support of thousands of other members. The legal benefits of ALPA are endless. Any ALPA pilot who has ever found himself in a real pickle can testify to the endless resources that were utilized to aid his / her cause. I have seen it with my own eyes. I have helped make it happen. Every night I am buring up the email to help correct contractual issues, inform pilots on contractual misunderstandings, and communicate directly with upper management on present issues. Not everyone's management is perfect; we are lucky. Bottom line, with ALPA you have the opportunity to negotiate better wages and work rules, and improve your quality of life. You have an opportunity to hold the company to its seniority system, instead of having them skip around the seniority list, upgrading whomever they feel like at the time, as I experienced. It is BS, and you deserve better. Now you are in a position where you can be utilized to provide pressure against another ALPA carrier. The 'ol, these guys can do it cheaper, why shouldn't we go with them? With ALPA representation, we can protect the interests of us all. Do you really want to become the GoJets of the regional world. I'm not threatening, but look at the potential realities. With the election of a new ALPA President, the approach is changing. We are becoming more aggressive about reclaiming some of what our fellow members have given up. At the end of the day, if we are divided, our job is much harder. If we unite, and refuse to undercut one another, our voice is stronger, and our mission is will be more successful. Think about it, make an educated decision. Your ALPA dues are not really that much. Think about your future right now; don't just assume that Colgan is a stepping stone. Obviously, for some people, it is not. What is to come of them? I would happily welcome some of my old Colgan buddies to the club, a club that, through our focus and dedication, will help to secure our collective futures, and consequently those of our loved ones. Sorry for the long post, but I know your minds are spinning with possibilities right now, and I just wanted to give you something to consider. Good luck and fly safe.

Whassa matter? AWAC didn't work out either? You were a crying biatch when you were here, not much has changed. A commercial ticket and 3 airline ground schools and you still don't know the purpose of the MEL. Feel free not to check back. But if you do, can you post the exact reference in your contract where ALPA limits the number of MELs on the aircraft?

 

[Yodafly]

Don't take our hesitation toward a union the wrong way...
many of us have been doing it without one from the start of our airline experience. The QOL at Colgan Air is/was very good. I would put my shedule, days off and vacation time up against any airline in the industry. All without a Union...
That being said....If things start to change here, Everyone knows everyone here and we can mobilize very quickly as a unified group with or without ALPA. We just need to wait and see....
If we did go with ALPA what makes you think ALPA would be looking out for Colgan employees best interests VS the larger group of Alpa members we would be joining. In Alpa majority rules....Right now Colgan employees are better without ALPA and if we do go Union it probably should be an in house union or another choice like the teamsters.
We are all hoping on both sides that things stay the same with plenty of growth on both sides....at least long enough to get us all into the majors with the same QOL.

 

[benbpilot]

You pilots are like a bunch of teenage girls at a boy band concert. Calm down. There is not going to be much change.

 

[vtchaz]

Apples & Oranges

I don't think that you would want to become another Go Jet? Would you?)

STOP COMPARING US TO GOJET!! Gojet was FORMED as an alter-ego to get around a contract. WE are an existing company, doing our own flying, that has been purchased. No one asked us and it wasn't something that was even remotely a possibility when we signed on. Should we now quit because it may negatively affect YOU? GOJET guys are flying someone else's planes. We are flying OUR planes and OUR routes, that WE worked for. Know the difference!

 

[redflyer65]

One question.....

What happens if Pinnacle Corp decides to place 30 Q400's there in the next few months and tells you that you are going to fly them for less than the Saab rates. Then what?

You guys need a union now, not later. I'm just saying it as friendly advice and not trying to threaten anyone. The days of Colgan being a small family business that basically leaves you alone are over. Did any of the pilots ask for this? Absolutely not. But I hope you guys get together and help each other out quickly, because if you don't, the PCL management steamroller is on the way. I guarantee it.

Lear is right. There are thousands of regional pilots that thought they would be getting out quickly and it just doesn't work out that way. Better to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

 

[vtchaz]

Thank you for the clarification

I'm not going to get in depth on Scope discussions right now until the attorneys get back to us next week with a full briefing, but I do want to correct something. The side letter you are referring to is only a name change LOA. Basically, the only thing it did was change any reference in the agreement of "Express One" to "Pinnacle." The important thing to note about the LOA is this section:

The parties are entering into this amendment solely to reflect the corporate
name change of the Company and do not intend to make any substantive
change to any aspect of the parties’ rights and obligations established by the
collective bargaining agreement by virtue of this amendment.​

Thank you for a mature and reasonable response. I too, as do all Colgan pilots, anxiously await to ask some questions and get some answers about this topic. Again, we do not wish anything negative for the PCL pilot group.

 

[Kaman]

I'd like to echo the sentiments of of other Colgan pilots that the argument isn't with the Pinnacle guys/gals. And, many of us myself included reacted with emotion over the sale and it's ramifications. We should let cooler heads prevail over the next few days and weeks. Stop the internet rhetoric and get all the information we can to make an informed career decision on staying or going.
My personal feeling is that Pinnacle Airlines Holding, Inc. has a plan for Colgan and Pinnacle. What is most difficult is not knowing what that might be. As human beings we naturally fear the unknown, hence the emotional reactions of CJC pilots to Pinnacle pilots asserting their "rights". I still strongly believe that any representation for the Colgan Air pilot group should be on our terms only. We have an ethical and moral obligation that any contract that we enter into doesn't cross any contract lines with another carrier.
Pinnacle's pilot group is making an assertation that we still even feel a vested interest in staying here for the longer term in the first place. Who at Colgan really wants to step up and form the MEC and all the other committees if it comes down to that. We have a young pilot group for the most part and these folks are here for a reason. As a vehicle to advance their careers. I'm an old fart and still want to advance my career. The question is how much pain we will all endure in the interim. I have had a pretty good time here at Colgan despite many frustrations over mostly operational and maintenance issues. Sadly, I realized on Jan. 18th that the world as we knew it is over.
We have a lot of really good people in our pilot group that do an outstanding job under difficult circumstances. Hopefully, we can work to preserve some of this in the future, but I fear that will not be the case.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[rfa]

STOP COMPARING US TO GOJET!! Gojet was FORMED as an alter-ego to get around a contract. WE are an existing company, doing our own flying, that has been purchased. No one asked us and it wasn't something that was even remotely a possibility when we signed on. Should we now quit because it may negatively affect YOU? GOJET guys are flying someone else's planes. We are flying OUR planes and OUR routes, that WE worked for. Know the difference!

Yeah, that rubbed me the wrong way as well.

 

[rfa]

I wonder if they will get rid of outstation basing. Opinions?

 

[Smarta$$]

STOP COMPARING US TO GOJET!! Gojet was FORMED as an alter-ego to get around a contract. WE are an existing company, doing our own flying, that has been purchased. No one asked us and it wasn't something that was even remotely a possibility when we signed on. Should we now quit because it may negatively affect YOU? GOJET guys are flying someone else's planes. We are flying OUR planes and OUR routes, that WE worked for. Know the difference!

For now?

 

[Lear70]

STOP COMPARING US TO GOJET!! Gojet was FORMED as an alter-ego to get around a contract.

And what will you say when you find out that Colgan was PURCHASED as an alter-ego to get around a contract?

What, that's different?

Hint: No, it's not.

Nor will it be if suddenly Nonconnah uses money that was made BY THE HARD WORK OF THE PCL PILOTS to obtain new flying for Colgan and grow Colgan while letting PCL sit and fester (which, incidentally, would get around Scope very similarly to what happened at G0Jets).

I'm not saying that's what's GOING to happen, but I'd put a C-note on PT's gang having that in mind when they did this.

WE are an existing company, doing our own flying, that has been purchased. No one asked us and it wasn't something that was even remotely a possibility when we signed on.

What about the new-hires that sign on there if a bunch of growth happens with PCL holding company money and contracts? Should PCL pilots dispariage them? How would they know the difference between new Colgan and old Colgan pilots? Should they form a "Colgan list"?

Do you really want to start down that kind of "us-against-them" road?

Should we now quit because it may negatively affect YOU? GOJET guys are flying someone else's planes. We are flying OUR planes and OUR routes, that WE worked for. Know the difference!

Yes, and you're now working for PINNACLE. That was then; this is now; know the difference.

If anything is a constant, it's that life always changes. Burying your head in the sand and wishing otherwise isn't going to change the FACT that your company WILL be different. Maybe not today, maybe not next week, but certainly inside this year.

 

[ifly34]

What if???

And what if PT purchased Colgan to have access to two major carriers so he can specifically add large regional jets to Pinnacle. And if he can also seize an opportunity to grow a turboprop airline with a large prop at a third major carrier at the same time? A strange thing that CEOs do is to try and make money for the corp and stakeholders. More unusual that they make large corporate plans just to screw a pilot group. My opinion: he may not be going out of his way to give you what you want, but I don't think he is going out of his way to break your group.

 

[Smarta$$]

And what if PT purchased Colgan to have access to two major carriers so he can specifically add large regional jets to Pinnacle. And if he can also seize an opportunity to grow a turboprop airline with a large prop at a third major carrier at the same time? A strange thing that CEOs do is to try and make money for the corp and stakeholders. More unusual that they make large corporate plans just to screw a pilot group. My opinion: he may not be going out of his way to give you what you want, but I don't think he is going out of his way to break your group.

If he is doing this to get large numbers of jets for 9E, than why would you not want your pilots to be in on that as well. I do have to disagree about airline execs not having braking the pilot groups at the front of their prioritys.

 

[suupah]

And what will you say when you find out that Colgan was PURCHASED as an alter-ego to get around a contract?

What, that's different?

Hint: No, it's not.

It is totally different. All we did was show up to work one day and bam! We joined the regional airline circus. I in no way knowingly got into this.

as for the hard earned money, there are a lot of advantages for pinnacle corp by buying this airline that was built by our pilots hard work and sweat. they didn't buy us to lose.

The money Pinnacle paid for Colgan is not owed to your pilot group. You guys get paid what you signed up to get paid. Unless they didn't pay you what you agreed to work for there is no obligation to you on their part with the money the company has earned.

If Colgan takes money earned by my hard work and buys real estate, what claim to that real estate do I have? they paid my paycheck that is all they owe me. PERIOD!

Please don't come into our house and tell us how its going to be. that is not how this thing works. If Colgan pilots get screwed you are going to see this entire company quit. And if that happens your side of things will be severly affected as well. There will be a severe finacial drain on your parent company which will affect you.

It is in everyones best interest to keep us happy.

enough

 

[Lear70]

If he is doing this to get large numbers of jets for 9E, than why would you not want your pilots to be in on that as well.

I do have to disagree about airline execs not having braking the pilot groups at the front of their priorities.

I have been agreeing with you an awful lot lately...

Gotta say BINGO! again.

 

[ifly34]

If he is doing this to get large numbers of jets for 9E, than why would you not want your pilots to be in on that as well. I do have to disagree about airline execs not having braking the pilot groups at the front of their prioritys.

Then who would fly the props? Pinnacle would get growth and larger aircraft, Colgan would get growth and larger aircraft, Corp would get more profit. A possible win/win for all involved. Seems to me that would be better than spending 20 million just to get you. I will however concede that yes, there have been a couple of CEOs that turned their labor disputes into personal vendettas. But still, they have been few and far between in the modern airline age.

 

[Godfather]

Can I get an Amen for Brother Kaman!!!

I'd like to echo the sentiments of of other Colgan pilots that the argument isn't with the Pinnacle guys/gals. And, many of us myself included reacted with emotion over the sale and it's ramifications. We should let cooler heads prevail over the next few days and weeks. Stop the internet rhetoric and get all the information we can to make an informed career decision on staying or going.
My personal feeling is that Pinnacle Airlines Holding, Inc. has a plan for Colgan and Pinnacle. What is most difficult is not knowing what that might be. As human beings we naturally fear the unknown, hence the emotional reactions of CJC pilots to Pinnacle pilots asserting their "rights". I still strongly believe that any representation for the Colgan Air pilot group should be on our terms only. We have an ethical and moral obligation that any contract that we enter into doesn't cross any contract lines with another carrier.
Pinnacle's pilot group is making an assertation that we still even feel a vested interest in staying here for the longer term in the first place. Who at Colgan really wants to step up and form the MEC and all the other committees if it comes down to that. We have a young pilot group for the most part and these folks are here for a reason. As a vehicle to advance their careers. I'm an old fart and still want to advance my career. The question is how much pain we will all endure in the interim. I have had a pretty good time here at Colgan despite many frustrations over mostly operational and maintenance issues. Sadly, I realized on Jan. 18th that the world as we knew it is over.
We have a lot of really good people in our pilot group that do an outstanding job under difficult circumstances. Hopefully, we can work to preserve some of this in the future, but I fear that will not be the case.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

couldn't have said it any better myself....it's time for a sit down...much to discuss...Colgan Hommies, PM your Dom now!

 

[Smarta$$]

Then who would fly the props? Pinnacle would get growth and larger aircraft, Colgan would get growth and larger aircraft, Corp would get more profit. A possible win/win for all involved. Seems to me that would be better than spending 20 million just to get you. I will however concede that yes, there have been a couple of CEOs that turned their labor disputes into personal vendettas. But still, they have been few a far between in the modern airline age.

No it is not few and far between. Mesa\Freedom, TSA\Gayjet, Mesaba\bigsky, Mesaba's fake BK, NW's fake BK, Pinnacle's threats and attemps at starting a second certificate, the transfer of 700's from ASA to skywest, the transfer or threat to transfer comairs flying to skywest\ASA. Dude, get your head out of the sand. It is going on all around you. So far, I have only heard 9E pilots inviting you into our airline and our seniority list so that WE as a collective group can get the best possible terms for BOTH of us. I have no anger toward Colgan pilots and look forward to sharing a cockpit (not flight deck) with them. Only good things can come from all of us sharing the same list. Not ONE 9E pilot has suggested a staple, and we would not allow that to happen.

We will be growing soon, and we have invited you to be part of that. Lets get together on this. And maybe have a beer someday. The only enemy I have lives in Memphis.

 

[vectorvictor]

What about the new-hires that sign on there if a bunch of growth happens with PCL holding company money and contracts? Should PCL pilots dispariage them? How would they know the difference between new Colgan and old Colgan pilots? Should they form a "Colgan list"?

Do you really want to start down that kind of "us-against-them" road?

Don't let your current state of misery with your job and your employers cloud your view of us. Colgan pilots are the BEST around. We work harder and we get the job done. THAT is why we were bought. We have a business model that creates growth and additional code shares. THAT is why we were bought. We have low operating overhead. THAT is why we were bought. We weren't bought to bust your union or to take away your flying. I have no desire to move to Detroit and fly a jet. Think of all the mainline Northwest guys who lost their jobs when you "took" their flying away. Any of you folks on a list? Grow up.

 

[Lear70]

Don't let your current state of misery with your job and your employers cloud your view of us. Colgan pilots are the BEST around. We work harder and we get the job done. THAT is why we were bought. We have a business model that creates growth and additional code shares. THAT is why we were bought. We have low operating overhead. THAT is why we were bought. We weren't bought to bust your union or to take away your flying. I have no desire to move to Detroit and fly a jet. Think of all the mainline Northwest guys who lost their jobs when you "took" their flying away. Any of you folks on a list? Grow up.

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

That's some pretty funny shiznit right there, I don't care WHO you are.

Corporations don't make $20 Million purchase agreements in order to get "the BEST pilots around".

Oh God, that may just replace my signature line at the bottom of my posts.

ROFLMAO!

Incidentally, I'm not miserable, I work for AirTran and LOVE it here.

Read back a few pages, I simply have a LOT of friends still at PCL and, after testifying AGAINST Pinnacle in Federal Court, as well as seeing how they operate on the line (still with 14 outstanding grievances pending - that's JUST my grievances, not the airline as a whole), I think I know a WEE LITTLE bit more than you do about how Nonconnah operates and why.

Simply the BEST, right? You and Phil? Maybe he'll invite you over to his Spring Barbecue this year.

LOLOLOLOL!

I'm sure you have some great people, but methinks YOU need a more than small dose of humility.

Thanks for the laugh, though.