Pinnacle Buying Colgan

[vtchaz]

Thank you for the clarification

I'm not going to get in depth on Scope discussions right now until the attorneys get back to us next week with a full briefing, but I do want to correct something. The side letter you are referring to is only a name change LOA. Basically, the only thing it did was change any reference in the agreement of "Express One" to "Pinnacle." The important thing to note about the LOA is this section:

The parties are entering into this amendment solely to reflect the corporate
name change of the Company and do not intend to make any substantive
change to any aspect of the parties’ rights and obligations established by the
collective bargaining agreement by virtue of this amendment.​

Thank you for a mature and reasonable response. I too, as do all Colgan pilots, anxiously await to ask some questions and get some answers about this topic. Again, we do not wish anything negative for the PCL pilot group.

 

[Kaman]

I'd like to echo the sentiments of of other Colgan pilots that the argument isn't with the Pinnacle guys/gals. And, many of us myself included reacted with emotion over the sale and it's ramifications. We should let cooler heads prevail over the next few days and weeks. Stop the internet rhetoric and get all the information we can to make an informed career decision on staying or going.
My personal feeling is that Pinnacle Airlines Holding, Inc. has a plan for Colgan and Pinnacle. What is most difficult is not knowing what that might be. As human beings we naturally fear the unknown, hence the emotional reactions of CJC pilots to Pinnacle pilots asserting their "rights". I still strongly believe that any representation for the Colgan Air pilot group should be on our terms only. We have an ethical and moral obligation that any contract that we enter into doesn't cross any contract lines with another carrier.
Pinnacle's pilot group is making an assertation that we still even feel a vested interest in staying here for the longer term in the first place. Who at Colgan really wants to step up and form the MEC and all the other committees if it comes down to that. We have a young pilot group for the most part and these folks are here for a reason. As a vehicle to advance their careers. I'm an old fart and still want to advance my career. The question is how much pain we will all endure in the interim. I have had a pretty good time here at Colgan despite many frustrations over mostly operational and maintenance issues. Sadly, I realized on Jan. 18th that the world as we knew it is over.
We have a lot of really good people in our pilot group that do an outstanding job under difficult circumstances. Hopefully, we can work to preserve some of this in the future, but I fear that will not be the case.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[rfa]

STOP COMPARING US TO GOJET!! Gojet was FORMED as an alter-ego to get around a contract. WE are an existing company, doing our own flying, that has been purchased. No one asked us and it wasn't something that was even remotely a possibility when we signed on. Should we now quit because it may negatively affect YOU? GOJET guys are flying someone else's planes. We are flying OUR planes and OUR routes, that WE worked for. Know the difference!

Yeah, that rubbed me the wrong way as well.

 

[rfa]

I wonder if they will get rid of outstation basing. Opinions?

 

[Smarta$$]

STOP COMPARING US TO GOJET!! Gojet was FORMED as an alter-ego to get around a contract. WE are an existing company, doing our own flying, that has been purchased. No one asked us and it wasn't something that was even remotely a possibility when we signed on. Should we now quit because it may negatively affect YOU? GOJET guys are flying someone else's planes. We are flying OUR planes and OUR routes, that WE worked for. Know the difference!

For now?

 

[Lear70]

STOP COMPARING US TO GOJET!! Gojet was FORMED as an alter-ego to get around a contract.

And what will you say when you find out that Colgan was PURCHASED as an alter-ego to get around a contract?

What, that's different?

Hint: No, it's not.

Nor will it be if suddenly Nonconnah uses money that was made BY THE HARD WORK OF THE PCL PILOTS to obtain new flying for Colgan and grow Colgan while letting PCL sit and fester (which, incidentally, would get around Scope very similarly to what happened at G0Jets).

I'm not saying that's what's GOING to happen, but I'd put a C-note on PT's gang having that in mind when they did this.

WE are an existing company, doing our own flying, that has been purchased. No one asked us and it wasn't something that was even remotely a possibility when we signed on.

What about the new-hires that sign on there if a bunch of growth happens with PCL holding company money and contracts? Should PCL pilots dispariage them? How would they know the difference between new Colgan and old Colgan pilots? Should they form a "Colgan list"?

Do you really want to start down that kind of "us-against-them" road?

Should we now quit because it may negatively affect YOU? GOJET guys are flying someone else's planes. We are flying OUR planes and OUR routes, that WE worked for. Know the difference!

Yes, and you're now working for PINNACLE. That was then; this is now; know the difference.

If anything is a constant, it's that life always changes. Burying your head in the sand and wishing otherwise isn't going to change the FACT that your company WILL be different. Maybe not today, maybe not next week, but certainly inside this year.

 

[ifly34]

What if???

And what if PT purchased Colgan to have access to two major carriers so he can specifically add large regional jets to Pinnacle. And if he can also seize an opportunity to grow a turboprop airline with a large prop at a third major carrier at the same time? A strange thing that CEOs do is to try and make money for the corp and stakeholders. More unusual that they make large corporate plans just to screw a pilot group. My opinion: he may not be going out of his way to give you what you want, but I don't think he is going out of his way to break your group.

 

[Smarta$$]

And what if PT purchased Colgan to have access to two major carriers so he can specifically add large regional jets to Pinnacle. And if he can also seize an opportunity to grow a turboprop airline with a large prop at a third major carrier at the same time? A strange thing that CEOs do is to try and make money for the corp and stakeholders. More unusual that they make large corporate plans just to screw a pilot group. My opinion: he may not be going out of his way to give you what you want, but I don't think he is going out of his way to break your group.

If he is doing this to get large numbers of jets for 9E, than why would you not want your pilots to be in on that as well. I do have to disagree about airline execs not having braking the pilot groups at the front of their prioritys.

 

[suupah]

And what will you say when you find out that Colgan was PURCHASED as an alter-ego to get around a contract?

What, that's different?

Hint: No, it's not.

It is totally different. All we did was show up to work one day and bam! We joined the regional airline circus. I in no way knowingly got into this.

as for the hard earned money, there are a lot of advantages for pinnacle corp by buying this airline that was built by our pilots hard work and sweat. they didn't buy us to lose.

The money Pinnacle paid for Colgan is not owed to your pilot group. You guys get paid what you signed up to get paid. Unless they didn't pay you what you agreed to work for there is no obligation to you on their part with the money the company has earned.

If Colgan takes money earned by my hard work and buys real estate, what claim to that real estate do I have? they paid my paycheck that is all they owe me. PERIOD!

Please don't come into our house and tell us how its going to be. that is not how this thing works. If Colgan pilots get screwed you are going to see this entire company quit. And if that happens your side of things will be severly affected as well. There will be a severe finacial drain on your parent company which will affect you.

It is in everyones best interest to keep us happy.

enough

 

[Lear70]

If he is doing this to get large numbers of jets for 9E, than why would you not want your pilots to be in on that as well.

I do have to disagree about airline execs not having braking the pilot groups at the front of their priorities.

I have been agreeing with you an awful lot lately...

Gotta say BINGO! again.

 

[ifly34]

If he is doing this to get large numbers of jets for 9E, than why would you not want your pilots to be in on that as well. I do have to disagree about airline execs not having braking the pilot groups at the front of their prioritys.

Then who would fly the props? Pinnacle would get growth and larger aircraft, Colgan would get growth and larger aircraft, Corp would get more profit. A possible win/win for all involved. Seems to me that would be better than spending 20 million just to get you. I will however concede that yes, there have been a couple of CEOs that turned their labor disputes into personal vendettas. But still, they have been few and far between in the modern airline age.

 

[Godfather]

Can I get an Amen for Brother Kaman!!!

I'd like to echo the sentiments of of other Colgan pilots that the argument isn't with the Pinnacle guys/gals. And, many of us myself included reacted with emotion over the sale and it's ramifications. We should let cooler heads prevail over the next few days and weeks. Stop the internet rhetoric and get all the information we can to make an informed career decision on staying or going.
My personal feeling is that Pinnacle Airlines Holding, Inc. has a plan for Colgan and Pinnacle. What is most difficult is not knowing what that might be. As human beings we naturally fear the unknown, hence the emotional reactions of CJC pilots to Pinnacle pilots asserting their "rights". I still strongly believe that any representation for the Colgan Air pilot group should be on our terms only. We have an ethical and moral obligation that any contract that we enter into doesn't cross any contract lines with another carrier.
Pinnacle's pilot group is making an assertation that we still even feel a vested interest in staying here for the longer term in the first place. Who at Colgan really wants to step up and form the MEC and all the other committees if it comes down to that. We have a young pilot group for the most part and these folks are here for a reason. As a vehicle to advance their careers. I'm an old fart and still want to advance my career. The question is how much pain we will all endure in the interim. I have had a pretty good time here at Colgan despite many frustrations over mostly operational and maintenance issues. Sadly, I realized on Jan. 18th that the world as we knew it is over.
We have a lot of really good people in our pilot group that do an outstanding job under difficult circumstances. Hopefully, we can work to preserve some of this in the future, but I fear that will not be the case.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

couldn't have said it any better myself....it's time for a sit down...much to discuss...Colgan Hommies, PM your Dom now!

 

[Smarta$$]

Then who would fly the props? Pinnacle would get growth and larger aircraft, Colgan would get growth and larger aircraft, Corp would get more profit. A possible win/win for all involved. Seems to me that would be better than spending 20 million just to get you. I will however concede that yes, there have been a couple of CEOs that turned their labor disputes into personal vendettas. But still, they have been few a far between in the modern airline age.

No it is not few and far between. Mesa\Freedom, TSA\Gayjet, Mesaba\bigsky, Mesaba's fake BK, NW's fake BK, Pinnacle's threats and attemps at starting a second certificate, the transfer of 700's from ASA to skywest, the transfer or threat to transfer comairs flying to skywest\ASA. Dude, get your head out of the sand. It is going on all around you. So far, I have only heard 9E pilots inviting you into our airline and our seniority list so that WE as a collective group can get the best possible terms for BOTH of us. I have no anger toward Colgan pilots and look forward to sharing a cockpit (not flight deck) with them. Only good things can come from all of us sharing the same list. Not ONE 9E pilot has suggested a staple, and we would not allow that to happen.

We will be growing soon, and we have invited you to be part of that. Lets get together on this. And maybe have a beer someday. The only enemy I have lives in Memphis.

 

[vectorvictor]

What about the new-hires that sign on there if a bunch of growth happens with PCL holding company money and contracts? Should PCL pilots dispariage them? How would they know the difference between new Colgan and old Colgan pilots? Should they form a "Colgan list"?

Do you really want to start down that kind of "us-against-them" road?

Don't let your current state of misery with your job and your employers cloud your view of us. Colgan pilots are the BEST around. We work harder and we get the job done. THAT is why we were bought. We have a business model that creates growth and additional code shares. THAT is why we were bought. We have low operating overhead. THAT is why we were bought. We weren't bought to bust your union or to take away your flying. I have no desire to move to Detroit and fly a jet. Think of all the mainline Northwest guys who lost their jobs when you "took" their flying away. Any of you folks on a list? Grow up.

 

[Lear70]

Don't let your current state of misery with your job and your employers cloud your view of us. Colgan pilots are the BEST around. We work harder and we get the job done. THAT is why we were bought. We have a business model that creates growth and additional code shares. THAT is why we were bought. We have low operating overhead. THAT is why we were bought. We weren't bought to bust your union or to take away your flying. I have no desire to move to Detroit and fly a jet. Think of all the mainline Northwest guys who lost their jobs when you "took" their flying away. Any of you folks on a list? Grow up.

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

That's some pretty funny shiznit right there, I don't care WHO you are.

Corporations don't make $20 Million purchase agreements in order to get "the BEST pilots around".

Oh God, that may just replace my signature line at the bottom of my posts.

ROFLMAO!

Incidentally, I'm not miserable, I work for AirTran and LOVE it here.

Read back a few pages, I simply have a LOT of friends still at PCL and, after testifying AGAINST Pinnacle in Federal Court, as well as seeing how they operate on the line (still with 14 outstanding grievances pending - that's JUST my grievances, not the airline as a whole), I think I know a WEE LITTLE bit more than you do about how Nonconnah operates and why.

Simply the BEST, right? You and Phil? Maybe he'll invite you over to his Spring Barbecue this year.

LOLOLOLOL!

I'm sure you have some great people, but methinks YOU need a more than small dose of humility.

Thanks for the laugh, though.