Pinnacle Buying Colgan

[Mr Wu]

I hate this stupid site, but with this announcement, curiosity got the best of me. I was curious to see how emotional this thread could get. Alot of you have voiced your opinion that Colgan needs to unionize. It is no secret that they have avoided this at all costs. The Colgan's did not want the headache of having their pilots have an official voice at the table. It was just easier to tell you what, how, and when... if you don't like it, find another job. The Colgan's aren't all bad, but in my opinion they were not trying to continuosly improve; they were not trying to be the best. If you aren't trying to be the best, then I don't want to be a part of your operation. For that reason I bailed out of Colgan at upgrade time a few years ago and came to Express Jet. I have never regretted the move for one solitary second. Express is a fantastic company. I went from flying 15 MELs to flying with maybe, and I mean maybe 1 a month. Everything was different. Part of the reason for that is that XJT pilots are represented by ALPA, and we maintain a solid, harmonious working relationship with our management team. We know that we can live or die together and that we must coexist to be successful. Since joining XJT, I have become more involved in all aspects of the company. I deal in ASAP issues and am a representative for our ALPA Contract Compliance Committee, in addition to serving as a local rep in EWR. It has been an awakening. I am not a bible beating diehard like some might be; but I can tell you that the value of a unionized workforce is priceless. If for no other reason, Colgan pilots need to join the family of ALPA pilots so that our collective interests are represented in this industry. Are there endless politics, ABSOLUTELY! However, keep in mind that the most imporant thing you are acheiving is a voice at the table, a coordinated effort to represent the collective interests of your pilots. This is an opportunity to argue your value as a group, not as individual employee numbers. We all know how well we fare when we take on the powers that be as individuals. As a prior Colgan pilot, I found their MX methodologies to be unacceptable and felt that too many Captains were becoming scape goats for the company's shortfalls. A union can help stand up to such problems. More importantly, you have the support of thousands of other members. The legal benefits of ALPA are endless. Any ALPA pilot who has ever found himself in a real pickle can testify to the endless resources that were utilized to aid his / her cause. I have seen it with my own eyes. I have helped make it happen. Every night I am buring up the email to help correct contractual issues, inform pilots on contractual misunderstandings, and communicate directly with upper management on present issues. Not everyone's management is perfect; we are lucky. Bottom line, with ALPA you have the opportunity to negotiate better wages and work rules, and improve your quality of life. You have an opportunity to hold the company to its seniority system, instead of having them skip around the seniority list, upgrading whomever they feel like at the time, as I experienced. It is BS, and you deserve better. Now you are in a position where you can be utilized to provide pressure against another ALPA carrier. The 'ol, these guys can do it cheaper, why shouldn't we go with them? With ALPA representation, we can protect the interests of us all. Do you really want to become the GoJets of the regional world. I'm not threatening, but look at the potential realities. With the election of a new ALPA President, the approach is changing. We are becoming more aggressive about reclaiming some of what our fellow members have given up. At the end of the day, if we are divided, our job is much harder. If we unite, and refuse to undercut one another, our voice is stronger, and our mission is will be more successful. Think about it, make an educated decision. Your ALPA dues are not really that much. Think about your future right now; don't just assume that Colgan is a stepping stone. Obviously, for some people, it is not. What is to come of them? I would happily welcome some of my old Colgan buddies to the club, a club that, through our focus and dedication, will help to secure our collective futures, and consequently those of our loved ones. Sorry for the long post, but I know your minds are spinning with possibilities right now, and I just wanted to give you something to consider. Good luck and fly safe.

Whassa matter? AWAC didn't work out either? You were a crying biatch when you were here, not much has changed. A commercial ticket and 3 airline ground schools and you still don't know the purpose of the MEL. Feel free not to check back. But if you do, can you post the exact reference in your contract where ALPA limits the number of MELs on the aircraft?

 

[Yodafly]

Don't take our hesitation toward a union the wrong way...
many of us have been doing it without one from the start of our airline experience. The QOL at Colgan Air is/was very good. I would put my shedule, days off and vacation time up against any airline in the industry. All without a Union...
That being said....If things start to change here, Everyone knows everyone here and we can mobilize very quickly as a unified group with or without ALPA. We just need to wait and see....
If we did go with ALPA what makes you think ALPA would be looking out for Colgan employees best interests VS the larger group of Alpa members we would be joining. In Alpa majority rules....Right now Colgan employees are better without ALPA and if we do go Union it probably should be an in house union or another choice like the teamsters.
We are all hoping on both sides that things stay the same with plenty of growth on both sides....at least long enough to get us all into the majors with the same QOL.

 

[benbpilot]

You pilots are like a bunch of teenage girls at a boy band concert. Calm down. There is not going to be much change.

 

[vtchaz]

Apples & Oranges

I don't think that you would want to become another Go Jet? Would you?)

STOP COMPARING US TO GOJET!! Gojet was FORMED as an alter-ego to get around a contract. WE are an existing company, doing our own flying, that has been purchased. No one asked us and it wasn't something that was even remotely a possibility when we signed on. Should we now quit because it may negatively affect YOU? GOJET guys are flying someone else's planes. We are flying OUR planes and OUR routes, that WE worked for. Know the difference!

 

[redflyer65]

One question.....

What happens if Pinnacle Corp decides to place 30 Q400's there in the next few months and tells you that you are going to fly them for less than the Saab rates. Then what?

You guys need a union now, not later. I'm just saying it as friendly advice and not trying to threaten anyone. The days of Colgan being a small family business that basically leaves you alone are over. Did any of the pilots ask for this? Absolutely not. But I hope you guys get together and help each other out quickly, because if you don't, the PCL management steamroller is on the way. I guarantee it.

Lear is right. There are thousands of regional pilots that thought they would be getting out quickly and it just doesn't work out that way. Better to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

 

[vtchaz]

Thank you for the clarification

I'm not going to get in depth on Scope discussions right now until the attorneys get back to us next week with a full briefing, but I do want to correct something. The side letter you are referring to is only a name change LOA. Basically, the only thing it did was change any reference in the agreement of "Express One" to "Pinnacle." The important thing to note about the LOA is this section:

The parties are entering into this amendment solely to reflect the corporate
name change of the Company and do not intend to make any substantive
change to any aspect of the parties’ rights and obligations established by the
collective bargaining agreement by virtue of this amendment.​

Thank you for a mature and reasonable response. I too, as do all Colgan pilots, anxiously await to ask some questions and get some answers about this topic. Again, we do not wish anything negative for the PCL pilot group.

 

[Kaman]

I'd like to echo the sentiments of of other Colgan pilots that the argument isn't with the Pinnacle guys/gals. And, many of us myself included reacted with emotion over the sale and it's ramifications. We should let cooler heads prevail over the next few days and weeks. Stop the internet rhetoric and get all the information we can to make an informed career decision on staying or going.
My personal feeling is that Pinnacle Airlines Holding, Inc. has a plan for Colgan and Pinnacle. What is most difficult is not knowing what that might be. As human beings we naturally fear the unknown, hence the emotional reactions of CJC pilots to Pinnacle pilots asserting their "rights". I still strongly believe that any representation for the Colgan Air pilot group should be on our terms only. We have an ethical and moral obligation that any contract that we enter into doesn't cross any contract lines with another carrier.
Pinnacle's pilot group is making an assertation that we still even feel a vested interest in staying here for the longer term in the first place. Who at Colgan really wants to step up and form the MEC and all the other committees if it comes down to that. We have a young pilot group for the most part and these folks are here for a reason. As a vehicle to advance their careers. I'm an old fart and still want to advance my career. The question is how much pain we will all endure in the interim. I have had a pretty good time here at Colgan despite many frustrations over mostly operational and maintenance issues. Sadly, I realized on Jan. 18th that the world as we knew it is over.
We have a lot of really good people in our pilot group that do an outstanding job under difficult circumstances. Hopefully, we can work to preserve some of this in the future, but I fear that will not be the case.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[rfa]

STOP COMPARING US TO GOJET!! Gojet was FORMED as an alter-ego to get around a contract. WE are an existing company, doing our own flying, that has been purchased. No one asked us and it wasn't something that was even remotely a possibility when we signed on. Should we now quit because it may negatively affect YOU? GOJET guys are flying someone else's planes. We are flying OUR planes and OUR routes, that WE worked for. Know the difference!

Yeah, that rubbed me the wrong way as well.

 

[rfa]

I wonder if they will get rid of outstation basing. Opinions?

 

[Smarta$$]

STOP COMPARING US TO GOJET!! Gojet was FORMED as an alter-ego to get around a contract. WE are an existing company, doing our own flying, that has been purchased. No one asked us and it wasn't something that was even remotely a possibility when we signed on. Should we now quit because it may negatively affect YOU? GOJET guys are flying someone else's planes. We are flying OUR planes and OUR routes, that WE worked for. Know the difference!

For now?