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Pinnacle Buying Colgan

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Just thought I would throw this out into the wind and see where it goes. What if Pinnacle is just trying to diversify their assets? I mean with Compass on the way, do you think Pinnacle saw the writing on the wall? Until today all of Pinnacle's eggs were in one basket.
I don't have any experience with Pinnacle management, so I could be totally bass-akwards on this..........
 
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redflyer65 said:
Lear, It doesn't say Pinnacle CORP. As we all know there wasn't a company called that when the contract was signed. But the wording is in a successorship.

Section 1.E. This agreement will be binding upon any successor or merged Company or companies or any successor in the control of the Company, regardless of the nature of the transfer of control.
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Good deal, I knew there was something else there I couldn't remember.

Hope PT and his lawyers understands and agrees with the binding nature of that paragraph to the holding company.

then check this

Section 1.F.1. In the event of the merger or consolidation of the Company with another airline which affects the seniority rights of pilots covered by this Agreement, provisions will be made for integration of seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner.
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True, but this isn't necessarily a merger or consolidation. Again, if the company intends to keep them completely separate including operating certificates, aircraft, and routes, then there is no "merger" or "consolidation".

Totally depends on what they do operationally.

other items

Section 1.B.1. All present and future flying of any form performed by or for the company will be performed by pilots on the pilots' system seniority list.

Section 1.B.4 The company will not create or control another airline for the purpose of transferring the assets of the company to such airline...
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Yup. 1.b.1 we already knew and is what was being questioned, i.e. "the company".

1.b.4 is the biggie. If they transfer any CRJ's over, then I guess it's "game on". :(
 
I think both companies will remain separate but will continue to get equally screwed by their own management. Lets not jump the gun and arm ourselves with ALPA yet. The end of the world is not upon us. Two companies one under one evil, much like China and Taiwan!

PCL now gets more flying and more gates for free. Colgan gets more $$$ for more EAS routes.... Great. If the companies stay separate that would be great. But if the merge by PCL holdings (which might happen) then the Colgan people, me being one of them, stand a chance of getting screwed.

Easy solution! Do the morning run ups and go from unfeather directly to min-max, their problem solved, the DECU does many cool things at that point!
:)

Hey can I fly on NW now?
100% chance that nothing will happen. If it does, then will see!
 
Lear70 said:
Good deal, I knew there was something else there I couldn't remember.

Hope PT and his lawyers understands and agrees with the binding nature of that paragraph to the holding company.


True, but this isn't necessarily a merger or consolidation. Again, if the company intends to keep them completely separate including operating certificates, aircraft, and routes, then there is no "merger" or "consolidation".

Totally depends on what they do operationally.


Yup. 1.b.1 we already knew and is what was being questioned, i.e. "the company".

1.b.4 is the biggie. If they transfer any CRJ's over, then I guess it's "game on". :(
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Waters are already muddied by the PCL saabs going to Colgan sounds like transfer of assets to me. Come on you know these guys.....there is something evil brewing at Noncomprehenda Blvd.
 
Prop2Jet said:
I think both companies will remain separate but will continue to get equally screwed by their own management. Lets not jump the gun and arm ourselves with ALPA yet. The end of the world is not upon us. Two companies one under one evil, much like China and Taiwan!

PCL now gets more flying and more gates for free. Colgan gets more $$$ for more EAS routes.... Great. If the companies stay separate that would be great. But if the merge by PCL holdings (which might happen) then the Colgan people, me being one of them, stand a chance of getting screwed.

Easy solution! Do the morning run ups and go from unfeather directly to min-max, their problem solved, the DECU does many cool things at that point!
:)

Hey can I fly on NW now?
100% chance that nothing will happen. If it does, then will see!
Click to expand...


Well management had a little explanation sheet for the ground employees stating no pass privileges on any of the carriers that Colgan codes for.
 
merger or consolidation ==== Ummm we are not doing either. We were bought as a seperate entity. That is not to say that such a thing will not occur though in the future.
 
I don't think Leasing airplanes to another carrier that are no longer on your carriers certificate is transfer of assetts. You're grasping at straws on this one.
 
It will not affect the upgrade at all, Mike and most of the Colgan's will still be onboard to advise. With 30 guys in ground school now in HEF That should tell you something. Upgrades always slow down this time a year my recommendation to all my fellow Colganites is sit tight and prepare, you will still get the phone call the day before they want you in ground school.
 
Kaman said:
You know all this talk know of Colgan flying technically being "PCL" flying is a bunch of horse dung. First of all, we are not members of ANY union and our current contracts with any mainline codeshares were awarded to CJC and flown with our airplanes and on our certificate. So, don't even think for one second that you are going to use the word "SCAB" and "COLGAN" in the same sentence. If you want to do that, then meet me in the parking lot at IAD and pack a friggin lunch, because I am not going to hear that crap thrown around.
The Colgan Air pilot group is a great group of people that routinely get the job done under very difficult conditions and often at the hands of our own support and managment groups. We were'nt privvy to any of the pre-sale negotiations and simply put on the uniform and go to work. Any comparisons that any of you Pinnacle guys that aren't old enough to have a hair on your ass best shut the FUUK UP.
Yeah, this sounds like a very acrimonious and antagonistic post. BUT, and I don't represent the opinion or position of the Colgan pilot group, but I danged sure won't let anyone come here in this setting and try to make any pleas, ultimatums or what have you to join your union so that we aren't "violating your scope" or as mentioned earlier:
The interpretation of our CBA's scope clause is that all flying performed on behalf of Pinnacle Airlines Corp (the holding company) is to be performed by Pinnacle Airlines pilots. Technically, the flying that you all are doing today is in violation of our contract, since the purchase of Colgan was complete this morning. I'm sure ALPA Legal is busy today.
If we want to join the bloody union we will do so on our own, and not be intimidated into doing so. You guys need to worry about your own contract, your own flying thats already on your operating certificate. If as I suspect PCL, Inc. wants to operate Pinnacle Airlines as the RJ carrier with a union and Colgan as the turboprop non-union airline then thats the way it's going to be. And, never shall the two meet in the middle. Any flying that comes down the road later, or should PCL decide to put CRJs (heaven forbid we get those underpowered pieces of crap) on our certificate than I guess we'll cross that road when we get to it.
BOTTOM-LINE to the PCL ALPA MEC...Don't use intimidation or scare tactics to get Colgan pilots and especially the top 50-75 seniority pilots to listen to your crap.
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BINGO...... With you all the way brother, i am in your corner in the IAD Parking lot..... I've been with Colgan 3+ years and hope that somethings change but for the most part hope some stays the same. It is nice to walk Into the HEF offices and have the Colgans Say hello, By name. Kiss that goodbye we are all just a number from this point on. This whole thing blows my mind!!!!!!
 
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If the companies stay separate that would be great. But if the merge by PCL holdings (which might happen) then the Colgan people, me being one of them, stand a chance of getting screwed.
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PCL and Colgan airlines will never "merge." There is no operational advantage in doing this as the carriers don't have anything in common. Whats at stake (for pilots anyway) is operating as a single seniority list under a common contract. This is optimal for both groups as it eliminates the possibility of whipsaw and boosts barganing power. Colgan pilots get the added benefit of enhanced career progression and earnings that larger/faster aircraft bring.

I'm curious as to how you think colgan pilots could get "screwed." Many Colgan employees may loose their jobs as PCL is already laying out plans for a new Systems Operational Control center in Memphis but pilots will be uneffected.
 
(heaven forbid we get those underpowered pieces of crap)
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Wow....you fly a Saab and your calling a CRJ an underpowered piece of crap? Now thats rich!
 
I certainly hope Colgan doesn't get any of PCL's flying or rjs. The reason most pilots came to Colgan was because we didn't need to fly jets. A quicker upgrade was supposed to be the return on that investment. If the powers that be toss us a few bones in the flavor of new Q400s, that should satisfy the senior t-prop guys. Most others will fly the Saab gladly, if they knew it was finally being repaired and maintained the way it is supposed to be.

Anyway, time to dust off the resume for plan B.
 
SELCAL checks said:
Kaman,

If you will reread my post, you will see that I wrote, "If you look at this from a strictly contractual point of view, you are doing our flying now."
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This comment is very unenlightened.

There is no us/them or our/your. We are all in this together and we better off sticking together. The reasoning for many of us urging Colganites to vote in some representation is so that you have a seat at the table when it comes time to divy up the pie. Do you trust your manegement group to represent your interests in a seniority integration?
 

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