Pinnacle Air Services

[CFI4LIFE]

I may have jumped the gun a bit on my comments about the overtime pay. MNR is right on the money with his comments about the "Old" JR vs the current JR. Things have gotten better, and we have not been informed that our pay system will be changing at all, maybe our policy will be adopted by Pinnacle and no one will have to refuse extra work. I have a tremendous amount of respect in our current mangagement, and I certainly don't mind helping out if its worth my time. Though 300 bucks is less than the daily rate of a contract pilot, it is better than what we were getting before, and much better than what Pinnacle offers. But if they do try to put us at a $100 daily rate then JJett, I'm with you!

 

[MNR]

ummm, I think you are all jumping the gun a bit here. The way I read it one of the PN guys was saying they get $100 a day for overtime. Nowhere in the thread did somone from JR say they heard we were going to $100 a day for OT. Re-read the last couple pages. The only things I hear are changeing in the near future at JR are uniforms and per-diem. Last I talked to JR's DO it wasen't even set in stone about JR guys having to pay for the uniforms. Only thing for sure is we are going to uniforms for sure.

Long term changes are all just mngt thinking out loud at this point. I know they would like to consolidate the fleet to have some consistancy in types i.e. lose the LR55s and replace with LR60s etc. They will eventually want to have some flow through between the cirtificates. Possibily move managed or 10+ seat aircraft to one cirt or the other etc. Its all rumor at this point however.

 

[JJET44]

MNR

I understand that it wasn't mentioned but how do you, Pinnacle Group, justify paying Jetride pilots $300 a day OT and Pinnacle pilots only $100?

They brought the PCL pilot salary up to match JR's. Why wouldn't they aliegn OT?

 

[Downwind]

I have yet to see a pay increase at Pinnacle. I'm not real sure what you guys mean by this. The only change we have seen has been the benefits package which added vision, long and short disability, FSP, DCA, and some matching 401K.

I have spoken over the phone with a couple of JR guys over the per diem issue. Frankly, you guys are making way too big of an issue over this. I know uncertanity is not good, but trust us, this will work out to your benefit and put a few extra bills in your pocket.

I really hope Pinnacle adopts the JR policy on aircraft crewing. I think your system works. We need help with this at our LAS base and with an airplane at ASG.

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape over the uniforms. The company requires it so you wear it or go else where. Our customers pay top dollar and demand nice aircraft, service, and crews. The uniform is just part of that. If you want to keep wearing polos then get a corporate or freight job. If JR guys do have to pay, don't worry. $26 a month isn't much plus it's all tax deductable.

I also wish Pinnacle would adopt the JR concept of communication. Every JR guy I talk to mentions the weekly email or teleconference with the DO or CP. I get 95% of my info here on flightinfo. Pinnacle really needs to keep their people (PA and JR) in the loop.

I know PA mgnt reads this board. Remember, an involved employee group feels needed and appreciated, and will return in kind to the company.

I look forward to meeting more JR folks and hope we can hook up on the road.

Downwind

 

[starcheckdriver]

I have spoken over the phone with a couple of JR guys over the per diem issue. Frankly, you guys are making way too big of an issue over this.......I wouldn't get too bent out of shape over the uniforms. The company requires it so you wear it or go else where. Our customers pay top dollar and demand nice aircraft, service, and crews. The uniform is just part of that. If you want to keep wearing polos then get a corporate or freight job. If JR guys do have to pay, don't worry. $26 a month isn't much plus it's all tax deductable.

Downwind

Downwind,

The per diem system JR proposed is problematic for many different reasons. The main reason is the per diem debit card. It has no Visa or Matercard logo and because of that it cannot be used to pay for a hotel room or meals. The only way to get your money is through an ATM or Point-of-Sale location like Walmart or the grocery store. Then you must go to your bank and deposit the cash you withdrew to pay your personal credit card bill for the hotel and meals on a trip.

Beyond that, I don't see how you make money or even break even on $141 a day. Are you one of the Pinnacle pilots that seeks out the Motel 6 and Super 8 on overnights? JR routinely books us in $99 a night rooms that comes to $110 after taxes. That leaves me with $31 a day for meals. Who can eat on $31 a day without going the fast food route?

As far as uniforms. I agree, wear it or leave the company. But, I also think they company buys them, or pilots leave the company. JR pilots wear a uniform now. It is charcoal colored, suit quality pants. We wear an oxford button down white shirt and a tie. Essentially, we wear a business suit without the jacket. IMHO, it looks more professional than any standard pilot uniform in the aviation world. Where did you get the idea we wear polos?

Lastly, if the company is going to mandate uniforms of their choice and their uniform provider; they need to pay for them. Otherwise, they need to let me select where to buy the uniforms. JR pays for our uniforms now and it is only ethical and right that that process continues.

 

[Downwind]

I don't know anything about a debit card nor have I heard anything about it from PA. I put everything on my card, collect the miles, and pay the bill with the per diem check. Anything outside of that I have no knowledge of.

I have stayed at a motel 6 twice this year. Days Inn, Comfort Suites, Fairfield, Holiday Inn, Redroof, Marriott, just about all. Some towns have Marriott and some have Chavez Inn. Where are you guys flying? IAH-JFK? LAX-ORD? We sometimes wind up in the most remote places with very little choices. Sometimes HoJo is as good as it gets. Sometimes better. I don't see the big appeal of Marriott. $99 for the room, plus 10 for internet, plus 15 for breakfast. Fairfield averages 69 for the room with internet and breakfast. With breakfast paid, lunch sometimes not possible, and dinner at 15, that's 40 in your pocket. Times 15. 600 in two weeks. Or add in lunch and total 120. That 20 to pocket times 15 and you bank 300. But to each their own. I challenge you to find one PA pilot that is losing money on our system.

I'm not saying the uniform issue is right or wrong, but it is how it is. I know some airline pilots who purchase their own uniforms, and from a lot lower salary. What is the company going to do with tailored unifiorms after you leave? Would you want to wear someone elses clothes?

Don't let the fear of the unknown cloud your mind too much. PA is a good place that is only going to get better. We're glad to have you guys onboard and look forward to working with ya. I'd say the majority of the pilots here are glad to be here. Not all. But when have you ever known pilots not to bitch.

Downwind

 

[MNR]

I understand that it wasn't mentioned but how do you, Pinnacle Group, justify paying Jetride pilots $300 a day OT and Pinnacle pilots only $100?

I'm just a JR pilot but if I were Pinnacle group I would bump it up to $300 across the board not lower it across the board. I was just saying that the current mngt has worked to make things better at JR my guess is that they will try to do the same across the board.

 

[MNR]

Downwind, It sounds to me like you're ok with compromising your QOL for extra dollars. I'm not. I certainly don't think I should plan on skipping lunch just so I can pocket a couple extra bucks. Thats fine under the proposed new system you and I can decide to stay where we like and you can decide to not eat. But, i certainly do not think it will put "a few extra bills in my pocket" and frankly I don't believe that is what per diem should be for. If I come out ahead great, but I am quite happy if I break even at the end of the day. If guys at PN are going to quit because they won't get their extra from per diem then maybe they should ask to be paid more to fly airplanes.

I will stress about these things because I want to know what going on. I will ask all sorts of questions and give mngt my input because thats the culture they have been attempting to foster at Jetride.

What I find interesting is that the company it putting forth this system in the effort to "save paperwork" At this point the only thing it gets rid of is me putting in for per diem (I guess it will be figured automatically) and no hotel reciepts to turn in. Were still going to do everything else and turn in all the other reciepts. I think at first the JR mngt thought they would not have to reimburse for tips or transportation either. Then they heard about captain's cash and how you guys pay for tip, taxis etc. The system PN uses currently is no less paperwork intensive than what JR uses. The only other reason I see to go to the PN way of doing per diem is so they can predict costs better.

Uniforms, if I was paid less at some other airline why would I want to pay for uniforms. This career is slowly becomeing a place people decide to leave because pilots do not value themselves enough. They work for peanuts or worse pay for their jobs, get stepped on, treated like dirt and then say "oh, thats ok at least I got to fly an airplane today." please. Bottom line is Airnet/Jetride has always given an allowance per year or paid for uniforms. We are not running around polo's btw. They don't want the stuff back because it wears out. I would hope that we would continue to get them paid for. If we don't then I will be on the phone again.

Lastly, did you ever think that maybe the reason you have staffing problems at PN is because of how they were doing things there? No communication, pay for your uniforms, $100 a day for overtime. In the long run people will vote with their feet. They will leave or more likely will look at the offer on the table aand decide they would rather not work at such a place. I think that is the biggest concern for Jetride pilots we have had it pretty good the last year or so. I think that most of the guys would agree with me about wanting it to stay that way. The DO at JR has even told me in the past they want Jetride to be a place where people will decide to stay long term, maybe retire from etc. The VP has assured us and told me personally that he is interested in maintaining current status quo or even maybe improve on the QOL If we however do not let them know when thing start to slip then they can't fix it.

 

[slickmagneto]

Let's see if we can set things straight. Pinnacle bought Jetride.(NOT MERGED). He who has the gold makes the rules. Pinnacle has the gold thus gets to makes the rules. If you don't like the rules you can go somewhere else. Looks plain and simple to me. And I'll bet a weeks salary that the day you tell Nelson your not going to work will be your last day. Trust me that I'm for better working conditions for all parties but I can tell you that you are playing with a loaded gun.

 

[MNR]

Kinda makes my point for me. Nelson's way of doing things is alot different from how things are done at Jetride. At least that is what I have heard from other PN pilots and what you seem to be indicateing above.

The guys who do have the gold do certainly make the rules (which is why we are all getting uniforms) They also could have put Nelson into VP position, they went with Wynn instead.

The culture at Jetride is such that I will actually call in the day before my 2 weeks starts and let them know I am avaiable if a trip comes up thats going to go over into my rotation. Yes, the extra $300 is nice if I start a day early. I do it also just because it helps the company out. They scratch my back I scratch theirs.

If the current culture at Jetride changes to mimic something similar to what I percieve goes on at Pinnacle (I could absolutely be wrong with my perception btw) Then I believe I can safely say that some Jetride pilots will go elsewhere. With Wynn at the helm I do not think that will happen. Only time will tell however.

 

[starcheckdriver]

And I'll bet a weeks salary that the day you tell Nelson your not going to work will be your last day.

What do you mean by this? Does this mean calling in sick and being asked to work on a day off? If that is the case, Nelson should be fired and get a swift kick in the a$$ on his way out the door.

If you are refering to people not working for dumb reasons or refusing flights for stupid reasons, then Nelson is doing a good job. I speak for myself when I say, I won't work when I am sick and I won't work on hard days off unless they are paying me the $250 a day. Flying when sick is not safe, pure and simple. It is also not fair to my Captain who will most likely get sick from being stuffed in a cockpit with me.

Our JR pilots work hard enough on their days on and are gone so much during their on-time that asking to work a day off is only acceptable if the overtime pay is offered.

It is also my understanding that going forward, JR pilots are only taking orders from our DO and CP and Pinnacle pilots from theirs. Maybe in the future, if and when the certificates merge, JR pilots will take orders from Nelson. But, it will be a cold day in hell if he expects people to work when sick or on a day off without overtime pay.

 

[JJET44]

Let's see if we can set things straight. Pinnacle bought Jetride.(NOT MERGED). He who has the gold makes the rules. Pinnacle has the gold thus gets to makes the rules. If you don't like the rules you can go somewhere else. Looks plain and simple to me. And I'll bet a weeks salary that the day you tell Nelson your not going to work will be your last day. Trust me that I'm for better working conditions for all parties but I can tell you that you are playing with a loaded gun.

Nevermind, it's not worth it

 

[slickmagneto]

Here is one thing to remember for both PN and JR crews. JR was not alot of fun to work at when I first started. The mngt team had a very low opinion of a pilots worth and treated u you as such. Our attrition rate was terriable. The old mngt punched out DO, CP, VP and his assistant and the new mngt came in. This includes the current Jetride DO and CP as well as the current VP for Jetride who is now the boss for both JR and PN. They have done a great job imho of turing around pilot morale. The PN crews can make up their own minds about it but I think most of the JR pilots would agree with me about the overall improvement in the QOL at Jetride over the last year. In the long run these things like debit cards, per diem and uniforms will get worked out and if past performance from the current VP equals future results I think the future combined company will be a decent place to work.

Pinnacle lost a lot of people in the early days and things eventually changed. There is plenty of room for improvement now. Making threats and playing the "I'm sick" card will only work once. It appears from all the positive comments that the addition of Mr. Wynn will be a great asset to the combined companies and the pilot group. It's too early to judge anything or anybody. Everyone needs to sit back and wait. I'm sure that in the end it's going to be a great place to work for all those who wish to ride it out.

 

[TennLear60]

Let's see if we can set things straight. Pinnacle bought Jetride.(NOT MERGED). He who has the gold makes the rules. Pinnacle has the gold thus gets to makes the rules. If you don't like the rules you can go somewhere else. Looks plain and simple to me. And I'll bet a weeks salary that the day you tell Nelson your not going to work will be your last day. Trust me that I'm for better working conditions for all parties but I can tell you that you are playing with a loaded gun.

Wow! I'm...speechless.

 

[slickmagneto]

Wow! I'm...speechless.

I doubt that! And you know I know you know I know.