Pinnacle Air Services

[Dave J]

Possibly their (JR) number one guy has been with the company longer than Pinnacle has been in existance. Or it was part of the negotiations in the sale. Just guesses. Nonetheless, niether JetRide or Pinnacle are union. So, 1:1 is completely fair. I'll take it if that is indeed the real situation. Sorry for coming across somewhat pessimistic in the last part here. I have learned to believe it when I see it.

J

It might have been in the Negotiations, but I believe all the JR pilots received a job letter offer offering them a job one who I spoke with told be he was offered in his letter 1000 more a year then what he was makeing. I didn't see the letter so I have to take his word on it. In any case that makes them all new hires just like anyone else. I beleive that the JR pilots have already seen the list may have a copy of it even. I have seen it and unless it gets revamped that is the way it is a JR pilot will be #1 on PA's list. That is weird but true.

 

[AirplanesSuck]

This is what our management has told us as a certainty. It seems very fair. They told us that it was a condition of sale in the deal.

If they are lying, everyone at JR and Nelson can kiss my ass. I'll be gone like a fart in the wind.

I'm sorry to see that you PA guys seemingly haven't been told anything about what's coming up. It seems they haven't been informing you like the JR guys are us.

Again, though, the JR guys could be lying... but they will pay seriously for that, and I think they know it.

 

[Dave J]

When do you guys get on the internet to do Priceline? This is another issue of mine.... I don't feel as if we should fly all day and then worry about finding ourselves a hotel within our per diem amount. The good folks in the office who have a phone and internet readily available can do that much more easily.

We don't do to many 10-12 duty days we know about most of are trips in advace 24 hours. Fly are trip duty off go to the hotel we don't sit around the airport and wait not saying that is what you guys do like Net Jet crews. I don't know if your dispatch keeps you on all day or not.

 

[AirplanesSuck]

Cool.

 

[NYRANGERS]

I guess this is the problem. The Jetride pilots (at least several I spoke with)were under the assumption that the Pinnacle pilots were getting pay raises to match the JR pilot salaries. Is this not the case? Most pilots at Jetride break even on the meal allowance ($36 a day) and therefore do not add per diem as part of the salary or take home pay. Based on the above post, I assume PA pilots are adding per diem into their salary when they figure out take home pay amounts.

.

Unless you guys get $75,000 for a first year 60 captain, it would not be a pay raise to adopt JR's pay. This is NOT including per diem. With minimal effort, I manage to make a few hundred or more a month with the per diem, some guys make much more.......conclusion....most of our 60 captains can make over $80,000 (first year)....and as for working 2 on 1 off........no thanks.

As for the hotel thing, I was apprehensive about getting my own room, until I did it a few times......it's easy and quick, you choose the hotel you want...typically 60-80 dollars a night (Hilton properties), pocket the rest.

My opinion is, if we adopt the JR model our quality of life will go way down. 15-17 days off in a row every month would be hard to see go away. 2 on 1 off is a joke.

As to what is going on with the whole JR/PA deal, our company is telling us nothing, many of our pilots are worried about their jobs, which is a shame.

good luck to everyone,

NYR

 

[MNR]

lots of random thoughts...

2 on 1 off at Jetride is a bit different than your 2 on 2 off at PA. JR crews are more likely to be home when not flying. At PA Your 2 week rotation you know you will be gone for 2 weeks straight. I prefer being home more and being on call. I could see how some would prefer being on the road 2 weeks straight. What Im saying is the JR 2 on 1 off vs the PA 2 on 2 off is not quite compareing apples to apples. Your 2 on 2 off is more like our reserve pilot 8 days on 6 days off schedule.

The Senority is right from a weekly memo. How they are doing it as explained to us at Jetride is exactly as was posted here.

If you could bid across cirtificates you would only bid open positions. It would be silly to rebid every base and every plane, not to mention cost prohibitive paying for all those moves. If however you could bid across cirtificates at some point if a spot came open in a city you wanted you would get it if you were highest on the senority list at that point.

The biggest problem with priceline is 1. you pay for the room when you book it. If you don't use it you lose the money. Good way to get screwed unless you wait until dispatch sayd you are released and can go to the hotel. Which means shopping for a hotel at the very last minute every time. 2. No points. If I book a room on priceline I don't get the hotel points, priceline does. Now I can use a card that generates points but I would prefer to pay directly and get 4x the points.

Dispatch usually releases us to the hotel but keeps the duty clock running until we get to 12 hours or so, around dinner time. Then you can call 'em and ask to be off duty or they will tell you ahead of time at 7 or 8 pm if you don't hear from us your off for the night. Allows for one to consume a few cold ones without being on call. Of course if they adopt the PA 12 hour rule you wont be able to do that anymore.

It is really too bad you guys at Pinnacle sound like you are getting absolutely no information whatsoever. Jetride has had at least half a dozen conference calls where we could call in and ask all the questions we wanted and the CP, DO, and VP were there to answer them. Not to mention the weekly memo we get.

 

[Dave J]

This is where things are better for us at least for now as far as duty times. We don't call in to dispatch Example this last trip hear to ASE from HOU I dutied us on at 9 AM CT flew 2.5 to ASE dutied us off about 45 minutes after block in fax in my paper work and went to the hotel done the only call is to a machine turning in my aircraft times my block in time my duty off time and when I will be leagal, so that dispatch can listen to the message and not bother me while I am in rest. Very seldome do we ever need approval to duty off they don't like the idea of us just sitting around an airport waiting. I guess it is looked at like well the sooner you are off the sooner you can come back on. If a trip popped up dispatch calls when they see us hit the ground or leaves us a message on are phone that we will get when we land. We can go online and see what we have comeing up for a month in advace if it is scheduled that far out. This is not to say we don't get pop ups we do but most of the time we know in advance by just getting on line and takeing a look. It is also not 12 but 10 so you can sneak a quick one in. lol

 

[macpilot]

Not all the PA pilots are on the 2week schedule and make all the extra perdiem and day pay money. I am really excited about all this, anyway it works out. I am a 31 f.o. at asg and make just under 40k when salary perdiem and day pay is all said and done.
My 2 week on/ off counter part:
1. Actually has some kind of a schedule
2. Gets to live anywhere they want
3. Is lower on our senoirty list
4. Makes about 10 - 20k per year more.

So its not that pa is not being fare to their on the road pilots after the merge if we adopt jrs salary and perdiem, its that pa has not been fare to everyone else befor the merge and now everyone is mad because we may be going to an industry standard. I think I speak for all the asg bassed crew on this. No angry phone calls please.

Whats industry standard you ask, if you ask the on the road pilots you will get an answer, if you ask jet ride and ASG bassed pilots you will get a different answer.

just making an observation, I promise Im not just trying to cause trouble between to two companies

 

[Dave J]

Not all the PA pilots are on the 2week schedule and make all the extra perdiem and day pay money. I am really excited about all this, anyway it works out. I am a 31 f.o. at asg and make just under 40k when salary perdiem and day pay is all said and done. My 2 week on/ off counter part who actually has some kind of a schedule, flys the same amout and lower on our senoirty makes about 50 - 60k. So its not that pa is not being fare to PA on the road pilots after the merge, the its that pa has not been fare to everyone else befor the merge. I think I speak for all the asg bassed crew on this.

Ahh suffer junior LOL it is true ASG crews do get the screws put to them, but no simpathy from me I did it a long time LOL the figure you are throwing out of 50 - 60 is with a per diem and you can't do that you will end up F...ing your self because it is not a consistant that is why I call it play money but yea because of the day pay road 31 FO If I remember that base pay is 35000 plus he will make another 9000 in day pay where asg base may only make and extra 3000-4000 in day pay because of less nights away. I would love to see you guys get day pay every day you fly instead of having to spend a night out before it starts, but it was worse in the past an asg based pilot had to spend 3 night out before they started getting day pay.

 

[macpilot]

Ahh suffer junior LOL it is true ASG crews do get the screws put to them. I would love to see you guys get day pay every day you fly instead of having to spend a night out before it starts.

why should a company be expected to pay their pilots extra money to do their job.

 

[TennLear60]

This is what our management has told us as a certainty. It seems very fair. They told us that it was a condition of sale in the deal.

If they are lying, everyone at JR and Nelson can kiss my ass. I'll be gone like a fart in the wind.

I'm sorry to see that you PA guys seemingly haven't been told anything about what's coming up. It seems they haven't been informing you like the JR guys are us.

Again, though, the JR guys could be lying... but they will pay seriously for that, and I think they know it.

It's all a conspiracy.

 

[starcheckdriver]

Example this last trip hear to ASE from HOU I dutied us on at 9 AM CT flew 2.5 to ASE dutied us off about 45 minutes after block in fax in my paper work and went to the hotel done the only call is to a machine turning in my aircraft times my block in time my duty off time and when I will be leagal, so that dispatch can listen to the message and not bother me while I am in rest. Very seldome do we ever need approval to duty off they don't like the idea of us just sitting around an airport waiting. I guess it is looked at like well the sooner you are off the sooner you can come back on.

The above mentioned way of doing things sux IMHO.....The example you gave makes you legal for duty again around 9:15PM MT. That means you could get called for an all nighter, and if you are like me; you did not sleep during the 10 hours of rest during daylight hours.

In the example mentioned, Jetride would keep us on duty till 7 or 8PM that night and then we would get the 10 hours rest so we could not get called in the middle of the night. Before anyone responds with a smart a$$ remark, I am well aware ASE is a daytime only airport. I am using the above example to cover all siutations.

I can only speak for myself on this one, but hardly ever look forward to Dispatch calling at 12AM or 1AM for an upcoming duty day starting at 2 or 3AM.

 

[Dave J]

why should a company be expected to pay their pilots extra money to do their job.

I think we all would like to see the day pay go away and the money made off of that be added to a straight salery

 

[starcheckdriver]

I know there has been a lot of talk of salaries between the two companies. Just curious....

What does a Pinnacle Lear 60 SIC and PIC make? I spoke to a Pinnacle Lr-60 FO who told me he was salaried at $37,000. I was shocked!

Most Jetride SICs start at $52,000 and get a 3% raise each year. Most Jetride are salaried at $70,000-$72,000 and get 3% raise each year. In fact, here is what is published on the Airnet/Jetride website:

Lear 31/35:

SIC 32,960 - 41,200
PIC 51,500 - 61,800

Lear 60

SIC 41,200 - 61,800
PIC 64,300 - 75,700

Gulfstream III

SIC 76,000 - 85,000
PIC 85,000 - 110,000

 

[Dave J]

The above mentioned way of doing things sux IMHO.....The example you gave makes you legal for duty again around 9:15PM MT. That means you could get called for an all nighter, and if you are like me; you did not sleep during the 10 hours of rest during daylight hours.

In the example mentioned, Jetride would keep us on duty till 7 or 8PM that night and then we would get the 10 hours rest so we could not get called in the middle of the night. Before anyone responds with a smart a$$ remark, I am well aware ASE is a daytime only airport. I am using the above example to cover all siutations.

I can only speak for myself on this one, but hardly ever look forward to Dispatch calling at 12AM or 1AM for an upcoming duty day starting at 2 or 3AM.

I wasn't going to go there with the ASE thing it was understood it was an example. but in as long as I have been here I can't remember that happening except when we had a contract with net jets because we had one plane that did a lot of recovery trips for them but it was only one plane but we don't any more so it just doesn't happen

 

[Dave J]

I know there has been a lot of talk of salaries between the two companies. Just curious....

What does a Pinnacle Lear 60 SIC and PIC make? I spoke to a Pinnacle Lr-60 FO who told me he was salaried at $37,000. I was shocked!

Most Jetride SICs start at $52,000 and get a 3% raise each year. Most Jetride are salaried at $70,000-$72,000 and get 3% raise each year. In fact, here is what is published on the Airnet/Jetride website:

Lear 31/35:

SIC 32,960 - 41,200
PIC 51,500 - 61,800

Lear 60

SIC 41,200 - 61,800
PIC 64,300 - 75,700

Gulfstream III

SIC 76,000 - 85,000
PIC 85,000 - 110,000

The 37000 is correct but that is a base pay and well day pay varies between based pilots and road pilots so since we are speaking of the 60 and all 60 pilots are on the road the FO you spoke with will make 37000 + another 9000 maybe 10000 in day pay because his day pay starts from the day he airlines to the plane and runs until he airlines home this is on the average 15 to 16 days each month there for his yearly pay is 46k to 47k. Same goes for the Capt starting base 66k + 9 to 10 K = 75 to 76 a year. Now the ASG based guys have same base but day pay in varieable and doesn't start until you spend a night out so if you do a one day turn no day pay this $ucks for them yet do a short hop leave monday fly and hour stay the night and return the next day and you get day pay for both days. Leave the next day and the cycle start all over again because you returned to home base. The poor guys could fly every day for a week out and back they would get no day pay because it is based on staying a night so the more consecutive nights away from home the more day pay. I hope this made sence. It is also not based on if you fly or just sit only on being away from home guess that is why it is called day pay and not flight pay

 

[macpilot]

no, just one day.

for the jet ride pilots, Can we be included in the emails and confrence calls.
.

 

[Dave J]

You are correct, you cannot bid for a particular hotel, only the star level and the location. What I normally do is check orbitz for hotels in the area and prices. As a general rule of thumb you should bid 40-50 percent less than the sugested RETAIL price. There are alot of "little things" to using priceline that you need to understand. I no longer work for Pinnacle, but I would be happy to talk with you. PM your phone # and I'll call you.

M you back to child molestations asking for phone #'s on the net. I thought you went and got some help. LOL and no I am not ref starchecker as being a child I am just messing with great lakes cause i am borred and need to get the hell out of here

 

[starcheckdriver]

I agree with MNR on his comments about JR's 14-on/7-off cycle and PA's 14/14 cycle. I was on the 14/7 cycle for about 6 months before going to the 8/6 reserve schedule. I was home about 16-18 days a month on the 14/7 cycle. That's because a lot of the trips were day trips and a lot of days entailed being on-call in my house.

If I am on-call and not flying, I would much rather do that in my house than a hotel room. But, I can see the trade-off for the 14/14 because I think that would mean that I can live wherever I want. Is this how it works at PA right now?

Just some more communication to put out for the PA guys....We were told in a conference call that the business plan is to put most, if not all aircraft on the basing system that JR currently has. This means they try to bring the aircraft back to base after every trip and that the pilots assigned to that aircraft have to live in base. With this setup, a 14/7 makes sense since it allows for an easy 3-pilot rotation on the plane and you are home more.

Whether they use that system after the deal closes is for all to see....

 

[AirplanesSuck]

MacPilot,

Ask Debbie Hutton (I think that's her name). She's on a lot of the calls lately. I don't see why you guys couldn't get on board here. A lot of it has been JR-specific, and the "two-companies-together" stuff has been a little more vague. But, still better than nothing. Or, I don't know why Wynn Peterson (the new boss above DO's for ALL of us) couldn't have a Pinnacle Pilot conference call. If you guys wanna do it, start shakin' the tree.