Pinnacle Air Services

[Rokit88]

starchecker-

I think that things will AVERAGE OUT in our favor. And then we are still getting daily meal allowance for out/back trips. So go get your airline miles credit card, and start rackin up the miles!

Rokit88
"you fly like an old woman, so here is your shawl"

 

[MNR]

Think it was answered before. The PA crews have "captain's cash" in each aircraft that covers tips, taxis, etc. anything that per diem does not cover. Its kinda like a petty cash box for each airplane. The reciepts need to match the cash missing, don't know where one gets reciepts for tips however. One of the Pa guys can clarify. I still do not see how this system is going to remove expense reports unless they are not going to have us send in other reciepts from trip which I just do not see happening.

When I firsted talked to Iris about the per diem it was only going to be paid on overnights. So on a 3 day trip you would get $282 ($141x2 overnights). I have been told that what they are planning is giving the meal portion for the last day or for day trips. The meal portion is actually higher than what we are getting now. I think it is $96 for the hotel and $45 for the meals according to the IRS sheet. Right now at PA however they get $10 per meal period. Walt has told me that $10 per meal period is not scaleable to the amount of pilots they want to eventually have so he would like go to a per day thing instead.

But, your right Starcheckdriver, I know some of the PA pilots say they are coming out ahead every 2 week tour. I just don't see that. It sounds like the PA crews that do come out ahead are the ones skipping lunch, and staying in hotels we usually do not stay in. If they do give us a higher day rate or the last day meal rate then it will be close to where we are at now. I have done the math on a couple of recent trips as well and it seems to be working out to being fairly close. I would definately not be pocketing any money however, just breaking even. In your example above if it was an overnight you would get $141 for the first night and then another $45 for the second day. If this is how it is going to work then you end up with $141+$45-$107=$79 under the current system you would have gotten $36+$36=$72....so its pretty close be it really depends on if they go with the meal rate for days you work but do not stay in a hotel. It also will depend on what that rate is.

 

[macpilot]

your right about captians cash, and tips are reimbersed. I guess they just take your word for it. Just dont say you tipped a line guy $100 and keep it. LOL. I am not on the 2 week schedule so I dont make as much off perdiem, but I am on a 4 day telluride trip. The Hotels is TEX where about $200-$300 so the company payed for a rental car (Hummer H3) and we drove to Ridgway. Staying in a super 8 $ 85 after taxes( free internet and breakfast). I have been eating subway for lunch and Ribs and sushi for dinner, and still ahead about 30 per day+ 50 day pay. So only on a rare occasion can you get screwed, but when it's all said and done, you will come home with a nice bonus. Remember to collect on the hotel reward points so that you can also get a free night every now and then. It also helps to have girlfriends all over the country that will let you stay with them. LOL.

I am curious to know if the 2 week on/off schedule will still be around after the merge is finalized. I do know that we are not renewing our skyjet contracts as they run out.

 

[MNR]

From what I understand the long term plan is to get all the planes on a Jetride model. Which means 3 pilots per plane, 2 weeks on call one week off, based all over the country. I think the plan is to start by moving PA planes to current Jetride bases or use capital that might be avaiable now to purchase more aircraft and position them in various cities. JR has lost a couple managed planes recently so Ontario, CA and Columbus and Lanncaster, PA are the spots that need filling first.

Honestly I am quite suprised the PA pilots aren't asking more questions about this. It is quite possible your planes are going to be moving, which means you would be too. That would be a huge deal to me. Enough to start looking for work elsewhere. They might allow some of the current PA pilots to stay on reserve, and live where you live now, at Jetride the reserve schedule is 8 days on 6 days off.

Here is the other thing you guys keep talking about the $50 day pay like its extra per diem but its not, its part of your salery structure. At least the way I understand it. We don't have day pay. So when you say you end up $30 ahead are you including that $50 in which case same scenario for a Jetride pilot you end up $20 in the hole per day. I would also like to know how much the company paid for the rental car to save the money on the hotels, not to mention the increased call out time because you were further from the airport.

I don't really consider a Super 8 free breakfast a free breakfast. Not when as a Diamond Hilton member I can get Eggs, Bacon, etc. for free vs. the Bagel, Cherrios and Apple I get at something like a Super 8. Finally, as far as getting screwed on the TEX trip I would have assumed I would be able to call the company and just have them pick up the hotel for us. That what I was told they would do for us. If I end up down in Cabo during the season its $400 per night minimum unless you want to stay somewhere reallly scary. I was told by Walt that in a case like that the company would pay for it on the credit card, that TEX trip sounds very similar.

One more thing, food for thought for the PA crews. In the TEX example under the current Jetride system a trip to TEX would have been $184 in per diem, $46 (high city) x 4, we would have stayed in one of the $200 hotels in TEX close to the airport and avaiable to make a 2 hour call out window. We also would have gotten a rental car because we were going to be there more than 36 hours. You guys at PA might bank a little more in your pocket at the end of the month but I would argue that currently the JR pilots might have a little bit better QOL on the road. We still get to keep all the hotel points etc. I just plan on useing them for a family vacation not to bank for a free night here or there so I can pocket the per diem.

 

[Downwind]

All the JR guys are right. The PA pilots have been lieing to you all. It's a big conspiracy to cover up the fact that we actually loose about a thousand dollars every two weeks out. We never get to eat either. We're lucky to grad some crackers out of the airplane. I'm already down to 125 lbs. I can't remember the last time I stayed at a hotel that had clean sheets and didn't charge by the hour. I can't remember ever golfing on the road. Or laying on a beach getting some sun. Pinnacle wouldn't even be in business if we weren't subsidizing the operation with this per diem system. Help us all. I think I'll go fly for Great Lakes. I hear they make some real money.

 

[macpilot]

I understand about staying in a super 8, but thats the way it is, I just concider it part of the job. We got a great deal on the car $25 per day for 4 days. I don't concider the day pay as part of perdiem either. We drove about 30 min and If we absolutly had to stay in telluride, then pa would take care of it. I have not heard anything about moving airplanes. It's the lack of communication at pa. However, I am single and can't wait to get out of arkansas, so i;m looking forward to moving and hopefully get in a bigger airplane. But for the pilots with familys, that is deffinatly a big deal. This is the reason im on flightinfo.com, because talking with jetride pilots is the only way i can find out whats going on with my company. Other than that, I am really happy here.

downwinds right, we also have to pay protection money to Nelson or we get our legs broken.

However it is important to understand that rebassing the airplanes is still all a rumor, I have confidence pa will tell us when the time is right. They dont want all the pilots to flip out and leave untill all the facts are in.

 

[MNR]

Downwind I don't think anyone said you were starving yourselves. But, if you want to be sarcastic I can just stop posting the information we get here. Then you all can go to Nelson and ask him what is going on.

I am just interested in getting as much information as possible so I have something to compare what we are currently doing to what we are going to be doing. Change sucks and at Jetride we have gone through a bunch of it in the last 2 years. The more information I have the better I feel about whats coming down the pipeline.

Is Great Lakes still even around?

 

[starcheckdriver]

MNR, I see what you are saying. On this trip (we are here 4 days), it would average to $36.20 a day in meal pay after you subtract the hotel bill. Pretty much what we get now. The problem is that we are not in a $90 a night hotel. Our hotel is $100 a night and there are no frills here. When I said we looked for hotels, the $90 a night hotels were the Days Inn, La Quinta, Motel 6. One of them didn't have shuttle service. None of them had restaurants in walking distance. We looked at those hotels just for $hit$ and giggles to see what would be available on the new per diem system.

While you may break even without a problem, you are staying in crappier hotels, which IMHO means we are getting hosed. As far as the $50 day pay, Jetride pilots don't get it now and I was told by Walt that there are no plans to implement that. It sounds like the $50 day pay policy at Pinnacle is going to be short-lived once the buyout closes.

 

[MNR]

Starcheckdriver you and I completely agree on this then. I thought the $107 you were refering to was the usual hotels we are staying at. Which btw I have seen, we stayed at a Rennissance in BMH for $86 the other night. The problem is you are correct most of the time the hotels are more than $90 they are closer to $100-$110.

Here is my theory on the whole thing. Per diem being what is was was always justified by the company as "Its there to suppliment the cost of eating out, its not there to cover your meals, your going to eat if you were home anyways" At least that has been the Jetride company line for quite a while. I can buy that for the most part. So now its gets extended to hotels. At this point they are saying were willing to give you basic lodgeing but if you want anything better for your QOL you will have to pay for it out of your pocket. The problem with that is up until this point even the dispatchers have even been told what is acceptable and what is not. That thype of lodgeing is has been over and above basic since I started at Jetride.

Oh well, we will see how it all shakes out. I just wish they would get the merger all over and done with so we can move forward.

 

[TennLear60]

Ok. Last time for those of you in the back of the class throwing spit wads and sticking gum under the desks. I'm one of the 2 wk on 2 off guys. I usually don't miss a meal. If I don't hace time to buy my own meal with my own per-diem while flying, I'll ask dispatch to set up some meals for me and the guy riding shot gun. They buy it for us. I DO like staying in Hilton properties and usually end up staying in them. I am not always able to stay at a Hilton Property either because they are not available, booked, or too expensive. Yes, I am a diamond member and I like that aspect. There has only been one rotation that I did not make cash with my per-diem. Never will you have to pay for your accomodations out of pocket without being reimbursed. Just state your situation to the CP. Submit an expense report. Get your check. Example: out of country. Only hotel available is $350. Well that's more than $226. Pay for it anyway. Keep your receipts for that and all your meals. Submit those with your expense report. Get your check. This isn't perfect. I know. Like I said. I do like getting the extra free cash every month though. Free money for Christmas shopping. Free money for vacation. Free money for beer. Free money for your hookers, or that cool new blow up doll you've had your eye on. This place isn't perfect. It has improved. Had a few speed bumps. I haven't agreed with every decision made by the company. You find anyone who can agree with every company decision no matter what company and I'll dance a jig on Main Street. The addition of JR has made many improvements for us that we would not have seen for a long time to come. That's all for now.

 

[Dave J]

There will be change in both ways and what is being said now will most likely not be how it ends up, and I don't care who you are getting your information from. This company is a privately held company and they have done things the way they want too and will continue. And no matter what some may think of are DO he started this company and built it from haveing one lear 31 to now have 13 aircraft not counting the JR planes and yes he has had the money behind him but he is the one who built it, and I know this because I was the first line pilot hired and seen this company grow to where it is now in 4 years. Just one more short thing PA has been in the BLACK each year.

 

[macpilot]

what do you mean by being in the BLACK?

I agree with TennLear, horizontal refreshment really cuts into your perdiem!

 

[MNR]

TennLear60 I hear what your saying. I hope your right. I really won't know how it works out for me until we start doing it that way. When we do I will come back here and say yep you were right I was worried about nothing....if it works out.

I definately don't like the idea of paying for rooms out of my pocket in hope that the company will reimburse me later. I would rather get permission to just put it on the company card and submit it with the reciepts.

Dave J your right they can do things however they want and I can decide if I want to continue to work for them or pull the eject handle. I would hope however that they will continue to ask for and take into consideration pilot imput on matters that directly involve pilots. Jetride has been in the Black too btw, just hard to see from Airnet's public balance sheet.

 

[slickmagneto]

TennLear60 I hear what your saying. I hope your right. I really won't know how it works out for me until we start doing it that way. When we do I will come back here and say yep you were right I was worried about nothing....if it works out.

I definately don't like the idea of paying for rooms out of my pocket in hope that the company will reimburse me later. I would rather get permission to just put it on the company card and submit it with the reciepts.

For the LAST TIME: 99.9% of the time there is no money of your own that you will be spending. You get an initial cash advance, the company credit card carried by the captain or the captains petty cash. The End.

 

[TennLear60]

I forgot to menteion the "Captain's Cash" bag. Each captain carries a bag with $XXX.XX in it. I don't want to say in a public forum what that amount is because it is company money. This cash is for rides, tips, stock, etc. Keep your receipts and get a check to replenish the bag. Each captain gets an AMEX for stock as well. Remember. Don't lose any receipts. You will be responsible at that point.

 

[Dave J]

what do you mean by being in the BLACK?

I agree with TennLear, horizontal refreshment really cuts into your perdiem!

The company has made money each year.

 

[Dave J]

MNR, I hope you are correct and that PA starts to adopt a more open communication. The PA pilots know that the JR pilots are being given more info part of that could be the way JR system is set up. It seems to be better then ares, but I also know PA hates rumors as you know one thing said to one person by the time it gets to the fourth person the story has changed. Example this credit per diem card are CP never even heard of it I had heard of some mention of it, but look now it is back to the check for your per diem the direct deposit thing is a new twist that would be nice. My opinion over the next several months there is not going to be much change pay per diem ect. JR pilots will continue to see things in regards to this as they have just the name on the top of the check will change and same goes for the PA pilots. As the aircraft and crews are brought over that is where the change will start to show and this is going to take some time.

You have heard the saying it is not always greener on the other side of the fence we tend to some times think it is in this case which ever way it works out either it be more of the way JR does things or the way PA does things it will only be a different shade of green. I left this company once it was a mistake, but it was something I felt I needed to do for family reasons and an offer of a six figure salery didn't hurt either or so I thought. It doesn't do any good to make 6 figures for 6 months.

In regards to the per diem thing and how some can not see how it is possible to make money. The PA guys who are on a 15 day rotation give or take a day or two and then off for 15 it works easier for us to make money because it is over 15 days yea I have to do a little work to find a hotel but I just stayed in the Marriotte in HOU for 68.00 with tax and fees that leaves a lot for me to eat on. Now I am in ASE and yea the hotel is costing 135.00 but I will be back in HOU in a couple. Then lets say you go to BWI or IAD which is high rate all year and I get in the Marriotte there there for 75.00 but I am getting 226 and lets say I sit there for two night well thats 452.00 yet my two night total is 150 so lets say you eat 50.00 a day, and I have had unlimitted expense accounts and over the course of the year it averaged out to less then that eating what ever I wanted. Sometimes it might have been steak other times pizza maybe next night susui but that is because it is what I wanted. In any case on those two nights in this example hotel and meals total 250 I am on the possitive 452 - 250 = 202 in my pocket. Somedays you will just break even some maybe even lose 25 ie PBI the next day you are possitive 35 and if you eat how you eat when you are at home when you just go out causual and not trying to impress a date you will end up 300 400 up easy but this is over 15 days straight it won't work as well if you go out do a 1 or 2 night turn then you end up back home for the next 3 days then you go back out and over the course of a two week rotation you spend only 7 nights away, but you will make some you may have to give up eating fillet every night and try the fish or chicken and pasta every other day and yea we got some guys who eat subway every day and stay in the motel 8 or what ever and those guys make a killing some even split rooms but that is up to them the crews can stay in seperate hotels one in the motel 6 because he trying to make money on his per diem and the other guy in the hilton they just need to be in contact and show up for the flight.

 

[starcheckdriver]

This cash is for rides, tips, stock, etc. Keep your receipts and get a check to replenish the bag. Each captain gets an AMEX for stock as well. Remember. Don't lose any receipts. You will be responsible at that point.

How do you get a receipt for tipping line guys, shuttle drivers, etc?

 

[slickmagneto]

How do you get a receipt for tipping line guys, shuttle drivers, etc?

The blank receipts in the captains cash bag are used for that type of situation.

 

[TennLear60]

Starcheck. Like slick said. There are blank receipts in each bag.

Date:
Location:
Trip Number:
Amount:
Reason:

Pretty simple. For actual receipts you receive you would put the same info as above on the receipt.

Dave. You gonna eat BBQ at the joint at the end of Main Street there in ASE?