Pinnacle Air Services

[MNR]

Just more information:

Per diem debit cards are not going to happen.

Instead they will be direct depositing per deim amounts weekly into the same account you have your paycheck direct deposited. If you don't have your paycheck direct deposited then you will get a check each week.

$141 and $226 will be paid for overnights. $45 and $58 will be paid for day trips. assumeing they do this for both sides that would mean no more $10 per meal period just the day rate instead, a good thing. They have not clarified if the meal rate will be paid on the last day of a multiple day trip. My guess is it will. Sounds good on paper but I will reserve judgement until I get to use it for a while.

 

[Dave J]

Starcheck. Like slick said. There are blank receipts in each bag.

Date:
Location:
Trip Number:
Amount:
Reason:

Pretty simple. For actual receipts you receive you would put the same info as above on the receipt.

Dave. You gonna eat BBQ at the joint at the end of Main Street there in ASE?

J. Congrats on the new rug rat and yea had that for lunch yesterday

 

[Dave J]

Just more information:

Per diem debit cards are not going to happen.

Instead they will be direct depositing per deim amounts weekly into the same account you have your paycheck direct deposited. If you don't have your paycheck direct deposited then you will get a check each week.

$141 and $226 will be paid for overnights. $45 and $58 will be paid for day trips. assumeing they do this for both sides that would mean no more $10 per meal period just the day rate instead, a good thing. They have not clarified if the meal rate will be paid on the last day of a multiple day trip. My guess is it will. Sounds good on paper but I will reserve judgement until I get to use it for a while.

I hope you are correct on the direct deposit we have been asking why this has never happend and was given the answer. "It is because pay checks and per diem checks come from two seperate banks" I did notice a change in my last pay stub so maybe this has been or is being addressed. It would be even a greater plus if we get that last day meal. It is something that didn't make any sence as to why not but for most of us on the road it just wasn't worth the effort to try and bring it up because we knew we would be ahead at the end of the rotation and would just wash the one day through the 15 days out.

 

[Dave J]

And for those who a curious as to where the 141 and 226 are derived from here is the link http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1542.pdf The company uses table 2. It makes sence to use that table with the number of pilots it is easier to keep track of just a high and low instead of all the different rates in each city. These per diem numbers may change Oct 1 that is the new release date last year the high rate went up from 198 to 226. Just remember this is the maximum the gov allows to be paid out for tax purposes the company has choosen to pay us this max nothing says they have too.

 

[JJET44]

For the LAST TIME: 99.9% of the time there is no money of your own that you will be spending. You get an initial cash advance, the company credit card carried by the captain or the captains petty cash. The End.

We understand what your saying. We haven't used your per-deim system yet.

BUT

The fact remains that we can add.

The average FBO price for a Hampton Inn is $99+ tax (average low perdiem city). Tax could be anywhere from $10 -$20= $109- $119. The most you can spend on a hotel with the PCL system is $105 w/tax to get the IRS's $36 for food.

It dosen't add up unless there is one inportant fact that we're missing and in that case please let us know.

Oh BTW you have to spend a little money to make money.
Many of us JR guys are shopping around for the best fuel prices to minimize costs.
We will tanker fuel into a city with high fuel prices or take a l;ittle to wave ramp fees even if we don't need it.
Some of the pilots might not be so willing to spend the extra time on their cell phone's calling ahead if QOL goes down.

This BTW isn't a threat, it's a historical fact in aviation
A happy pilot is a cost effective employee!

 

[starcheckdriver]

The average FBO price for a Hampton Inn is $99+ tax (average low perdiem city). Tax could be anywhere from $10 -$20= $109- $119. The most you can spend on a hotel with the PCL system is $105 w/tax to get the IRS's $36 for food.

Actually, the IRS rate for food in a low city is $45. So to get that, you can only spend $96 on a hotel after taxes. That means you need to find a hotel with a rate of $85 or less. Good Luck unless you are a Days Inn or La Quinta type of guy/gal.

I am not trying to sound snobby or bitchy, but part of the reason pilots tend to stay in decent hotels is beacause that is the trade off for being on the road when you are working. And, I am not talking about the Ritz Carlton. I would venture to say most Jetride pilots are okay with the Holiday Inn, Crown Plaza, Hampton Inn, Marriott chains, and of course, Hilton Family hotels. But, I doubt many cities will offer these hotels for less than $85 a night.

The other issue with this system is that the burden of making lodging arrangements lies with the crew rather than Dispatch. This is a problem for me, especially on an ASAP trip or a late night trip. The last thing I want to do when I get to the destination late at night or in good time after a 12-14 hour duty day is try to search the internet to find a deal that falls within my per diem guidelines.

I thought the system we have now was great! $36 for low cities, $45 for high cities and Dispatch takes care of the lodging. If they cannot book a hotel then the destination FBO would do it and the average rate was $90-$100 a night in a decent hotel. My opinion is, "if it ain't broke, why fix it?!"

 

[starcheckdriver]

Just remember this is the maximum the gov allows to be paid out for tax purposes the company has choosen to pay us this max nothing says they have too.

This is not meant to be an attack or to be negative in any way towards Pinnacle or their pilots, but I am curious....

Reading the last 100 posts in this thread, it seems that Jetride guys are stating opinions and policies that would better the QOL for the Pinnacle pilots. Someone defended the $100 a day overtime rate several posts ago. We are just trying to make sure the rate stays at $250 and $300 for SICs and PICs, respectivly. Wouldn't that be better than $100 a day?

Why are you defending the fact they pay the max per diem allowed? Why should it be acceptable for them to pay any less? If we are trying to get a policy that keeps the pilots in nice hotels and still pays a good meal rate, why would you argue with that?

 

[macpilot]

If anyone has done the math...

If Pa adopted Jr's salary, perdiem, overtime pay and 2 week on call/ 1 hard off schedule

Or, If JR adobted Pa's salary, perdiem, (imposible to adopt our 2 week on/off) and overtime pay

Or any combination their of,

would the both companies pilots take home pay be the same? It seems to me that it would be about the same or jet ride would be slightly ahead.

Am I making sence or completely missing the subjecet?

 

[Dave J]

In my opinion and being that I have done it both ways with this company I like this per diem structer better it is worth the little extra work for me to make the extra cash. I am sure we all would like to see an increase in day off pay but we don't often get called out on are day off so it isn't as big of an issue at least with the guys on the road.

It was not a defense as to weather or not they should pay us the max. I was makeing a point that they have done this and if it goes up again this Oct 1st hopefulley they will again match the max.

This not dirrected at any body but just some info from someone who has been around here pre-midonnas and winers have not done very well or lasted at this company in the past.

 

[starcheckdriver]

If anyone has done the math...

If Pa adopted Jr's salary, perdiem, overtime pay and 2 week on call/ 1 hard off schedule

Or, If JR adobted Pa's salary, perdiem, (imposible to adopt our 2 week on/off) and overtime pay

Or any combination their of,

would the both companies pilots take home pay be the same? It seems to me that it would be about the same or jet ride would be slightly ahead.

Am I making sence or completely missing the subjecet?

I guess this is the problem. The Jetride pilots (at least several I spoke with)were under the assumption that the Pinnacle pilots were getting pay raises to match the JR pilot salaries. Is this not the case? Most pilots at Jetride break even on the meal allowance ($36 a day) and therefore do not add per diem as part of the salary or take home pay. Based on the above post, I assume PA pilots are adding per diem into their salary when they figure out take home pay amounts.

You cannot really do the math on either system because in order to benefit from Pinnacle's per diem structure, one must stay in a hotel that is less than $85 a night before taxes. Jetride Dispatch and JR pilots routinely book hotels that are $90-$100 a night before taxes. If we continued that practice on Pinnacle's per diem structure, we would lose money, or starve to break even.

I think the point of many JR pilots is that they don't want a change in QOL while on the road with this new system, i.e. they don't want to stay in lesser quality hotels than we do now, and they don't want any less money for meals than we get now. I also think a lot of them don't want the hassle of making their own reservations at hotels and having to charge those bills to a personal credit card.

Now, what I would like to know to simplify the argument is this....

If JR pilots are staying in Holiday Inns, Crowne Plazas, Marriott chains, and Hilton chains for an average of $90-$100 ($105-$120 after taxes) a night before taxes, how would one break even or come out ahead on $141 a night? At that per diem rate it leaves $21-$36 a day for food which is hardly enough. Any less than $36 a day and you are hard pressed to break even, let alone come out ahead.

According to the IRS tables, on this system, we should be spending no more than $96 a night (after taxes) on hotels. That doesn't leave much wiggle room. It remains a fact that in order to do this, one must find a hotel with a nightly rate of $85 or less to get the full $45 IRS meal allowance. I spoke with a couple FBOs this week regarding rates that they have (in PBI), and not one has a rate less than $95 a night with local hotels.

The internet didn't produce anything better. I found three hotels with shuttle service and restaurants nearby (requirements in my opinion, unless the company pays for a rental car) that were $80-$85 a night.....Days Inn, La Quinta and Red Roof Inn. All crappy hotels in this area. Trust me, the $99 a night Marriott we are in now is nothing to write home about.

In any case, I don't see how the math adds up. Maybe I am missing something. I wish a PA pilot could give a detailed example of a common destination like TEB, APA, PBI, LAX, etc.

 

[Dave J]

Starchecker, I just got a price on a room in PBI the Holiday Inn airport Conf center it is withing 2 miles of the airport it is a nice hotel for 85.00 and I am sure that if there is nothing special going on in the area I could either get the same Marriott you are in or any of the hotels you speak of for 60-70 if I just price line bid the hotel. We stay in the same hotels you all stay in just you all pay full price. I was just in the Marriott at HOU taxes and all for 68 the best rate the FBO had was 100 + taxes and it was the courtyard. If I would have went straight to the hotel the room would have been 140 plus tax. I was in the Hyatt in LA with bell hopes and all and paid something like 80 bucks last month. Sometimes yea we get screwed like now I am in Aspen my room with tax was 132 but we just moved to a different hotel in downtown and the room is 70 it is just a fair room they called this place 3 stars I would say 2 but I got wireless internet bathroom and a quenn size bed so maybe it doesn't have all the extra pillows and the pillow top mattress. You seem to bash La Quinta quite allot try the one in Panama City FL it is nicer then any Marriott courtyard I have been in there is also one in Atlanta just like it the one in Nashville it is ahh but they are renovateing there whole chain so 2 out of 3 really nice and the other I could get by with yea I know some are junk it happens to be the area they are in but remember I get to choose the area I stay in you don't so how do you know you have resturaunts or van service your dispatch made the reservation maybe they check on that for you I don't know. You mentioned TEB medowlands plaza it is like 85 a night through the FBOs or at least it was it has been a while since I stayed in TEB and they have a van to take you to near bye mall all be it small but alot of resturaunts 2 movie theaters.

Now if you are smart you do not count any money you make on per diem torward your salery. You look at it as play money when you are off.

Where you heard that we are going to be raised to match your pay. I don't think so my guess is are most junior 60 captain makes more then most all JR captains. I am going to toss this bit out there and you do the math.
I might hear about it even get my neck in a sling If you work for this company you know who I am I don't hide behind stage names I left that to the strippers maybe that is foolish on my part but what the hell, but I am just sick of this he said she said they get we get I think crap. A junior captain on the 60 at PA and all are on a 15 day rotation give or take a day then off 15 base pay 66000 + 50 a day 15 x 50 = 750 a month 750 x 12 months 9000 ........66000 + 9000 = 75000 a year. Now just for gigals you through in the money we make and we do every month on the low side you average 300 cash on you per diem that is 3600 cash not taxed extra for the year and this year I have averaged over 500 each month on my per diem that is 6000 cash for me, and being I am not junior hear and picked up a few extra days I will make 10000 on my day pay this year you figure out how much I make over your highest paid captain. So If they switch us all to your system we are all going to get F............ed. Now all of are home base guys it maybe a better deal for them. For the guys who are senior and out on the road live where we want to get 15 days off a month pocket play money at the end of each month we aren't liken that idea of a change to much. Which maybe why we are not being told much they are affraid about 50% of there pilots may up and just walk because it is about half of us that are out on the road we already had 3 45 guys leave because nothing was being said to them and they got worried. And I know alot of are guys are worried they have famlies and houses they took the job because they could live were they are now. I am in a better spot then most in my case my stuff is in storage and I am just waiting it out at family and friends houses while I am off, but I won't move across the county to keep this job.

What are you all going to do if they now say these are the bases now bid via seniorty how far down the list did you fall I am sure your number just got multiplied by 2 if you were 15 at JR you will now be 30 and now you just lost your base because 3 guys ahead took it just something to think about.

 

[GREAT LAKES]

Hotels

Very well said Dave, but one thing I must point out regarding hotels is Priceline. It is not uncommon to stay in a 4star for $50-$60 a night. Now if you hit this price at a high end..........well you do the math. You just have to know how to use the system. Pinnacle's per diem structure is, in my opinon, very fair. Having worked at Pinnacle for a year, I never came close to being in the red after 15 days. In fact the net take home was nomally $500. Just my .02 cents.

By the way Dave you never called me back when I was in EYW. I see how you are!

 

[AirplanesSuck]

When do you guys get on the internet to do Priceline? This is another issue of mine.... I don't feel as if we should fly all day and then worry about finding ourselves a hotel within our per diem amount. The good folks in the office who have a phone and internet readily available can do that much more easily.

 

[Dave J]

Very well said Dave, but one thing I must point out regarding hotels is Priceline. It is not uncommon to stay in a 4star for $50-$60 a night. Now if you hit this price at a high end..........well you do the math. You just have to know how to use the system. Pinnacle's per diem structure is, in my opinon, very fair. Having worked at Pinnacle for a year, I never came close to being in the red after 15 days. In fact the net take home was nomally $500. Just my .02 cents.

By the way Dave you never called me back when I was in EYW. I see how you are!

F u M i was in the same state as you when you called from Deval St. LOL I was going to but had to go to work timeing was bad. I was thinking about running down for a couple of days but your wife would have been pissed at me for leaveing her to hang with you check the blood work on the last kid LOL pease bud talk to you later call me.

 

[starcheckdriver]

What are you all going to do if they now say these are the bases now bid via seniorty how far down the list did you fall I am sure your number just got multiplied by 2 if you were 15 at JR you will now be 30 and now you just lost your base because 3 guys ahead took it just something to think about.

I guess Pinnacle has yet to communicate how senority is working after closing. Before I explain, let me preface by saying senority will probably not matter initially because we will be on two separate operating certificates. As of now, there is no op spec or provision to allow pilots to fly on the other certificate, which makes senority worthless between the two companies. Now, should we merge into one certificate down the road, or get an op spec to allow pilots on both, senority might mean something.

That said, senority will work like this. Pinnacle agreed to place the most senior Jetride pilot as most senior aka #1 on the new Pinnacle/Jetride list, followed by the #1 at Pinnacle. So Pinnacle's #1 will be #2, Jetride's #2 will be #3, Pinnacle's #2 will be #4, etc. Just take your current Pinnacle seniority and put a Jetride pilot above you and below you.

Of course, the Jetride pilots were very pleased with this merging plan. Pinnacle could have easily tacked all the JR guys underneath the PA guys. A 1:1 merge was very gracious on their part.

 

[starcheckdriver]

Priceline

How do you use priceline effectively? I was looking around on it for the PBI hotels and priceline was quoting the same rate as the hotels' websites. For example, the Holiday Inn Conference Center was $74 a night on both the hotel website and priceline. The Marriott West Palm Beach (where we stayed for 4 nights this past weekend) was $159 a night on Marriott's website and on priceline. We got it for $99 from the FBO.

Am I not using priceline correctlt to get a better rate? I saw the bid function that priceline has, but it would not let me bid on a specific hotel. It would only allow a bid for a general area and then you are stuck with whatever hotel it assigns you. Is this normal?

 

[GREAT LAKES]

Priceline

You are correct, you cannot bid for a particular hotel, only the star level and the location. What I normally do is check orbitz for hotels in the area and prices. As a general rule of thumb you should bid 40-50 percent less than the sugested RETAIL price. There are alot of "little things" to using priceline that you need to understand. I no longer work for Pinnacle, but I would be happy to talk with you. PM your phone # and I'll call you.

 

[macpilot]

does bidding 50% less work for airline tickets?
I would like to ask jet ride guys if they know anything about a wilmington delaware base? Congrats on the senority if thats correct. I think it's a fare deal to.

 

[Downwind]

Why would the acquiring party place the acquired parties pilots in higher seniority? I have a hard time believing this. If it is true, then maybe it's time to polish up the old resume.

Pinnacle guys should be first. I have no problem with a one to one, but a PA guy should be no. 1, not a JR guy. This is not a merger. It is an acquisition.

Nothing against JR guys. But you don't buy someone out and then hose your own people. But I'll save final judgment until after the official word.

 

[TennLear60]

Why would the acquiring party place the acquired parties pilots in higher seniority? I have a hard time believing this. If it is true, then maybe it's time to polish up the old resume.

Pinnacle guys should be first. I have no problem with a one to one, but a PA guy should be no. 1, not a JR guy. This is not a merger. It is an acquisition.

Nothing against JR guys. But you don't buy someone out and then hose your own people. But I'll save final judgment until after the official word.

Possibly their (JR) number one guy has been with the company longer than Pinnacle has been in existance. Or it was part of the negotiations in the sale. Just guesses. Nonetheless, niether JetRide or Pinnacle are union. So, 1:1 is completely fair. I'll take it if that is indeed the real situation. Sorry for coming across somewhat pessimistic in the last part here. I have learned to believe it when I see it.

J