Pilots wearing backpacks??? lets get campy?

[KeroseneSnorter]

Wow, I bet if we abolish backpacks then all those greedy CEO's would see the light and give us all payraises, right????? Really???

Give me a f-ing break.

A backpack makes no bearing whatsoever on how professional you are. How you do your job does. You can dress up in a dam tuxedo with solid gold cufflinks and a $10,000 Rolex, and if you're a jacka$$, then you're still a jacka$$. Some of the highest time, most senior people I've met, from your 'golden era', are some of the worst pilots and most unprofessional jacka$$es I've ever met. Likewise, I've seen younger, low time guys wearing backpacks that can fly circles around the old farts.

I've seen the word 'professional' thrown around so much by people that have no idea what it means. Wearing a nice spiffy uniform with a hat doesn't make you a professional. Wearing a backpack doesn't make you unprofessional. How you do your job, your skill level, your knowledge, and your ability make you professional. A dam backpack or hat has nothing to do with it.

Get a life.

Lessee here, 2600 tt, nothing of any size listed in the airplane column........um lemme guess, I hit a little too close to home with my post?

 

[PCL_128]

CapnVegetto, it's not a question of whether it makes you a better pilot or not, it's a question of perception. The pax sitting in the gate when they see the pilot walk up with a backpack, off-color Dockers, black tennis shoes, and no hat will perceive him as being unprofessional. He may be the best stick at the company, but the people don't see that. They only see his appearance, and they judge him and his airline based on that. Your uniform doesn't make you a professional by itself, but it is one piece of the whole puzzle.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Lessee here, 2600 tt, nothing of any size listed in the airplane column........um lemme guess, I hit a little too close to home with my post?

Thank you for making my point for me.

"I fly a big airplane!!! I'm the man!! I'm the best pilot in the unnneeeyyverse!!!"

How stereotypical.

 

[CapnVegetto]

CapnVegetto, it's not a question of whether it makes you a better pilot or not, it's a question of perception. The pax sitting in the gate when they see the pilot walk up with a backpack, off-color Dockers, black tennis shoes, and no hat will perceive him as being unprofessional. He may be the best stick at the company, but the people don't see that. They only see his appearance, and they judge him and his airline based on that. Your uniform doesn't make you a professional by itself, but it is one piece of the whole puzzle.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. 20 years ago? Yeah. Today? No. With $39 one-way tickets, reductions in service, travelocity, expedia, etc. people have proven time and time again that they don't care who or what flys them, or what they fly in. They just want a cheap ticket. Oh sure, they'll whine about 'little planes', and 'no meals', etc. but just look at their behavior. They go to travelocity or whatever, click on the cheapest fare, and off they go. They've already proven that they don't care. They're not going to go on expedia, and say, 'well, this ticket is $20 cheaper, but last time their pilot was wearing a backpack, so I'm not going to fly this one.'

Besides, what's unprofessional about a backpack? Maybe torn pants and a t-shirt that says "I'm with stupid", but a backpack? I don't buy that.

 

[acaTerry]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. 20 years ago? Yeah. Today? No. With $39 one-way tickets, reductions in service, travelocity, expedia, etc. people have proven time and time again that they don't care who or what flys them, or what they fly in. They just want a cheap ticket. Oh sure, they'll whine about 'little planes', and 'no meals', etc. but just look at their behavior. They go to travelocity or whatever, click on the cheapest fare, and off they go. They've already proven that they don't care. They're not going to go on expedia, and say, 'well, this ticket is $20 cheaper, but last time their pilot was wearing a backpack, so I'm not going to fly this one.'

Besides, what's unprofessional about a backpack? Maybe torn pants and a t-shirt that says "I'm with stupid", but a backpack? I don't buy that.

So you're saying it is OK to dummy ourselves down to meet the white trash on our planes? How does a lack of class in the customer justify a lack of class in the crew?

 

[CapnVegetto]

So you're saying it is OK to dummy ourselves down to meet the white trash on our planes? How does a lack of class in the customer justify a lack of class in the crew?

Geez, that's mean. You're saying that every 'dummy' that wears a backpack is 'white trash'? Have you ever worn one while hiking? Are you a white trash dummy?

So everyone everywhere that wears a backpack is a white trash dummy? That's kind of harsh dude.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Thank you for making my point for me.

"I fly a big airplane!!! I'm the man!! I'm the best pilot in the unnneeeyyverse!!!"

How stereotypical.

Ahh a frisky one!

No where have I ever claimed to be a superpilot, I simply go to work like everybody else.

As PCL pointed out, perception means a lot in this industry.

You actually made my point for me, not the other way around. Many pilots from your generation seem to feel an entitlement to something, and that they do not need to worry with such things as passenger perception or how they are perceived by their peers. You are a very public figure in the passengers eyes.....and in the end, the passengers are the ones that set your payscale.

As a side note, I am pretty young, and at a touch under 9000 hours I am a fairly low time pilot at my company, so using me as the stereotype for the big airplane flyer doesn't hold up too well. Between me the Captain and the F/E in the cockpit, I am the young stupid one!!

 

[PCL_128]

Geez, that's mean. You're saying that every 'dummy' that wears a backpack is 'white trash'? Have you ever worn one while hiking? Are you a white trash dummy?

So everyone everywhere that wears a backpack is a white trash dummy? That's kind of harsh dude.

Come on, you can certainly see the difference between wearing a backpack on a hike and wearing one in the terminal while working. Where does it stop? How 'bout everyone coming to work barefoot? Maybe we should all wear Miller Lite t-shirts?

Why is it so frickin' difficult for everyone to just wear the traditional pilot uniform?

 

[CapnVegetto]

Ahh a frisky one!

No where have I ever claimed to be a superpilot, I simply go to work like everybody else.

As PCL pointed out, perception means a lot in this industry.

You actually made my point for me, not the other way around. Many pilots from your generation seem to feel an entitlement to something, and that they do not need to worry with such things as passenger perception or how they are perceived by their peers. You are a very public figure in the passengers eyes.....and in the end, the passengers are the ones that set your payscale.

As a side note, I am pretty young, and at a touch under 9000 hours I am a fairly low time pilot at my company, so using me as the stereotype for the big airplane flyer doesn't hold up too well. Between me the Captain and the F/E in the cockpit, I am the young stupid one!!

I disagree. The passengers set nothing. The industry does. As long as SWA can charge $39 for a ticket and make money, salaries are going to be low. As long as CEO's remain as greedy as they are, salaries are going to be low. People are going to do the same thing they've done since forever, they are going to fly where the cheapest ticket is. If the cheapest ticket is $39, that's what they're paying. If the cheapest ticket is $500, that's what they're paying. Until ticket prices go up, nothing is going to change.

Also, at what point did I ever say that I was entitled to anything? I believe that I'm entitled to a fair wage, decent working conditions, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Is that wrong? And if you're 'young', what 'generation' are you a part of. Mine? I perceive my peers when I know them. I can't look at someone and make a judgement, and neither can you. If you think you can, then I could easily judge you as a 'high and mighty holier than thou' type. Would I be right or wrong? I don't know, because I don't know you.

So can I correctly perceive that you think anyone wearing a backpack is an inferior pilot?

Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

Do you see my point about judgements?

I perceive that because you have 9000 hours, are flying a big jet, and from what I read in your posting that you think you know everything and are somehow above anyone that is flying a 'small jet'. (My guess is that you're flying a DC-10 or MD-11 for FDX.) Am I right or wrong?

If I'm right, then maybe there is some merit to what you're saying. If I'm wrong, then the above paragraph sounds very stupid and my point is made. Which is it?

You can also read my post to PCL about perception to get my view on that.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I disagree. The passengers set nothing. The industry does. As long as SWA can charge $39 for a ticket and make money, salaries are going to be low. As long as CEO's remain as greedy as they are, salaries are going to be low. People are going to do the same thing they've done since forever, they are going to fly where the cheapest ticket is. If the cheapest ticket is $39, that's what they're paying. If the cheapest ticket is $500, that's what they're paying. Until ticket prices go up, nothing is going to change.

Also, at what point did I ever say that I was entitled to anything? I believe that I'm entitled to a fair wage, decent working conditions, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Is that wrong? And if you're 'young', what 'generation' are you a part of. Mine? I perceive my peers when I know them. I can't look at someone and make a judgement, and neither can you. If you think you can, then I could easily judge you as a 'high and mighty holier than thou' type. Would I be right or wrong? I don't know, because I don't know you.

So can I correctly perceive that you think anyone wearing a backpack is an inferior pilot?

Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

Do you see my point about judgements?

I perceive that because you have 9000 hours, are flying a big jet, and from what I read in your posting that you think you know everything and are somehow above anyone that is flying a 'small jet'. (My guess is that you're flying a DC-10 or MD-11 for FDX.) Am I right or wrong?

If I'm right, then maybe there is some merit to what you're saying. If I'm wrong, then the above paragraph sounds very stupid and my point is made. Which is it?

You can also read my post to PCL about perception to get my view on that.

First, SWA currently has one of the highest paid pilot groups out there. How can they do that when they charge such low fares? Part of the reason is brand loyalty. How much of that is because of how the pilot group is seen by the public? Above my brain power, but it is a factor.

As to my generation? I am probably about 10 years older than you, not much in the grand scheme of things. However the current crop coming through now seem to feel that they have nothing to learn from the guys that came before them. I have seen it from time to time in my age bracket, the last one was a poor guy that didn't know when to act the part and keep his mouth shut in front of checkairmen and Senior Captains. He should be a few numbers senior to me, instead he was "removed" from the seniority list by one of those "Know it all big airplane drivers" that very much cares how the pilot group is perceived by their peers and customers.

As to the Company and airplane.......wrong company and four motors instead of three.

Know it all?? Me? You are kidding right? Been around the block a few times, been furloughed, downgraded, seen a lot of guys do stupid things and sabotoge their own careers....yes. Know it all, not by a long shot. Those "Know it all senior Captains" have a lot of information to pass on to a young inexperienced fellow such as myself. I learn something new everytime I go to work.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

First, SWA currently has one of the highest paid pilot groups out there. How can they do that when they charge such low fares? Part of the reason is brand loyalty. How much of that is because of how the pilot group is seen by the public? Above my brain power, but it is a factor.

As to my generation? I am probably about 10 years older than you, not much in the grand scheme of things. However the current crop coming through now seem to feel that they have nothing to learn from the guys that came before them. I have seen it from time to time in my age bracket, the last one was a poor guy that didn't know when to act the part and keep his mouth shut in front of checkairmen and Senior Captains. He should be a few numbers senior to me, instead he was "removed" from the seniority list by one of those "Know it all big airplane drivers" that very much cares how the pilot group is perceived by their peers and customers.

As to the Company and airplane.......wrong company and four motors instead of three.

Know it all?? Me? You are kidding right? Been around the block a few times, been furloughed, downgraded, seen a lot of guys do stupid things and sabotoge their own careers....yes. Know it all, not by a long shot. Those "Know it all senior Captains" have a lot of information to pass on to a young inexperienced fellow such as myself. I learn something new everytime I go to work.

How do you like the 8? I love this thing, Tim Allen comes to mind, aaaar aaaar aaaar! MORE POWER!

of course Im assuming UPS and the DC8

 

[FedEx1]

I wear a backpack at Fedex. And you would, too, if you had to haul three bags up the stairs of an MD-11. But I suppose we don't count...It seems to be acceptable to carry a briefcase with a shoulder strap over your shoulder in the business world. And women wear their tennies when walking to and from work. I don't have a problem with the campy look personally.

And pilots don't have big bellies.... they have secondary stall protection.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

How do you like the 8? I love this thing, Tim Allen comes to mind, aaaar aaaar aaaar! MORE POWER!

of course Im assuming UPS and the DC8

Nope not the 8.......mines bigger(hmm that doesn't sound too good huh? ), but your paycheck whips the crap out of mine hands down assuming you are off probation!!!!! (The senior boys are working on that problem now.) Got any spare change??

You got the more power thing right though!!!!!!! Booyowww!!!!! Now if I can just figure out what the heck I am doing most of the time I will be set! One motor on this puppy weighs more than my last corporate jet did at gross, and it hauls gobs more weight in fuel than the old 73 weighed at gross!!

Like a silly kid in a candy store on this puppy...........Proof that all furloughs are not bad. Went from a 73 to a 172 and clawed my way back up. Gives you a new look on life, family is everything. The big planes are nice but in the end it's the folks at home that make it worth while!

Oh yeah.....and Backpacks Suck!!! Gotta stay on topic you know!!

 

[CapnVegetto]

First, SWA currently has one of the highest paid pilot groups out there. How can they do that when they charge such low fares? Part of the reason is brand loyalty. How much of that is because of how the pilot group is seen by the public? Above my brain power, but it is a factor.

As to my generation? I am probably about 10 years older than you, not much in the grand scheme of things. However the current crop coming through now seem to feel that they have nothing to learn from the guys that came before them. I have seen it from time to time in my age bracket, the last one was a poor guy that didn't know when to act the part and keep his mouth shut in front of checkairmen and Senior Captains. He should be a few numbers senior to me, instead he was "removed" from the seniority list by one of those "Know it all big airplane drivers" that very much cares how the pilot group is perceived by their peers and customers.

As to the Company and airplane.......wrong company and four motors instead of three.

Know it all?? Me? You are kidding right? Been around the block a few times, been furloughed, downgraded, seen a lot of guys do stupid things and sabotoge their own careers....yes. Know it all, not by a long shot. Those "Know it all senior Captains" have a lot of information to pass on to a young inexperienced fellow such as myself. I learn something new everytime I go to work.

Once again I have to disagree. American consumers know very little of brand loyalty. That is exactly where travelocity, expedia, priceline, and all of these websites came from. My neighbor has a boyfriend in Chicago. She's flown 3 different airlines the last 3 times she's been up there. What drives it? The cheapest ticket. She doesn't care if it's O'hare or Midway, nonstop or with a connection. The cheapest ticket wins.

SWA is making money because of one thing: extremely shrewd management. They gambled on fuel hedges and won. While everyone else is paying $60 a barrel, they're paying $30. Instead of going into massive debt for growth, they took what they had and optimized it. They grew slowly and kept a strong cash position, enabling them to afford the hedging, while everyone was going into massive debt and buying new airplanes, they were growing slowly and positioning themselves for the future. They fly a point to point route structure, enabling themselves to only go places where they know they will make money. But rest assured, if someone else came in and undercut them, customers would go flocking to whatever other airline would save them an extra $2 bucks.

I don't have a problem with learning from someone that knows more than me. I don't have a problem respecting someone who has EARNED it. Respect is not given, it's EARNED. If someone expects me to respect them just because they have 10,000 hours in a 747, they've got another thing coming. I have a lot more respect for character, work ethic, and the way you treat people than I do flight time. I don't care if you're a 50 hour student pilot, if you earn my respect, you have it. But don't expect it to be given to you.

Because someone flies 'big planes' doesn't make them worthy of anything. Many are great guys, and great pilots, but just as many aren't. Many think that because they've flown a DC-10 or something that their $hit doesn't stink. Far from it. Some of the worst pilots I've ever met are these 'big plane' drivers. Some of the best pilots I've ever met are 'little plane' drivers. Tell any military fighter pilot that they're inferior because they fly a 1-seat airplane and see what they have to say about it.

I don't think I know everything. I'm always willing to learn. But nobody can ever expect me to bow down and call them god automatically because of anything. After I get to know you, fly with you, and you earn my respect, then I'll listen.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I don't think I know everything. I'm always willing to learn. But nobody can ever expect me to bow down and call them god automatically because of anything. After I get to know you, fly with you, and you earn my respect, then I'll listen.

Career tip coming your way..........

Whatever you do, avoid all Chief Pilots and check airmen like the plauge........you will thank me for it later.

Might want to have the wife speak to the next cop that pulls you over too.....they dislike that attitude even more than the CP's do!!! (Learned that one on a motorcycle back in college.....boy that was a hefty fine!! He didn't see the humor in it.)

 

[CapnVegetto]

Career tip coming your way..........

Whatever you do, avoid all Chief Pilots and check airmen like the plauge........you will thank me for it later.

Might want to have the wife speak to the next cop that pulls you over too.....they dislike that attitude even more than the CP's do!!! (Learned that one on a motorcycle back in college.....boy that was a hefty fine!! He didn't see the humor in it.)

News for ya......never had any kind of problem with any CP or CK airman anywhere. I've drank more beer with 'em than anything. As long as they don't come to me with a 'my $hit don't stink holier-than-thou' attitude, we'll never have a problem. I'll listen to ANYBODY, even if I don't agree with you, I will listen to you.

Most I've met have been easy to work with, easy to deal with, and good guys. No attitude problems anywhere. I'm not going to lemming behind someone and I don't kiss a$$. If you teach me something I don't know, I'll learn from you gratefully. If you're wrong, or acting like an a$$ don't expect me to act like you're not. If someone is going to be an a$$hole to me, then fine, I don't want to work for you. I can always find another job. I'm not going to go swimming up some CP's a$$ to keep a job.

I will work my butt off for you and be the best employee you ever had, as long as you treat me right. But the minute you think you can abuse me, bye bye.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

News for ya......never had any kind of problem with any CP or CK airman anywhere. I've drank more beer with 'em than anything. As long as they don't come to me with a 'my $hit don't stink holier-than-thou' attitude, we'll never have a problem. I'll listen to ANYBODY, even if I don't agree with you, I will listen to you.

Most I've met have been easy to work with, easy to deal with, and good guys. No attitude problems anywhere. I'm not going to lemming behind someone and I don't kiss a$$. If you teach me something I don't know, I'll learn from you gratefully. If you're wrong, or acting like an a$$ don't expect me to act like you're not. If someone is going to be an a$$hole to me, then fine, I don't want to work for you. I can always find another job. I'm not going to go swimming up some CP's a$$ to keep a job.

I will work my butt off for you and be the best employee you ever had, as long as you treat me right. But the minute you think you can abuse me, bye bye.

Mostly you have the right attitude, unfortunate that you may not be able to play the game long enough to get through the probation year without pissing off the wrong people at many of the better paid carriers out there. I am guessing that is your goal otherwise why bother with this thread.

I am with you on the treating a person right and not taking the abuse, my last employer found out the hard way just how marketable a decent pilot is, I think he is still trying to find my replacement, been through a couple of guys that scared the crap out of him in the last few months. Bad thing is it used to pay well and be a good job until he started to listen to the wrong guys about how to become a first class aviation bottomfeeder. So you have no quarrel with me in that department.

I still think that backpacks make a pilot look like a young schmuck still trying to figure out how an airplane works though!!!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

News for ya......never had any kind of problem with any CP or CK airman anywhere. I've drank more beer with 'em than anything. As long as they don't come to me with a 'my $hit don't stink holier-than-thou' attitude, we'll never have a problem. I'll listen to ANYBODY, even if I don't agree with you, I will listen to you.

Most I've met have been easy to work with, easy to deal with, and good guys. No attitude problems anywhere. I'm not going to lemming behind someone and I don't kiss a$$. If you teach me something I don't know, I'll learn from you gratefully. If you're wrong, or acting like an a$$ don't expect me to act like you're not. If someone is going to be an a$$hole to me, then fine, I don't want to work for you. I can always find another job. I'm not going to go swimming up some CP's a$$ to keep a job.

I will work my butt off for you and be the best employee you ever had, as long as you treat me right. But the minute you think you can abuse me, bye bye.

Brandy-new bad a$$ Citation captain (says so 2X in his profile)

nobody gonna fark with him....always a better job out there.

ready to walk.


where ya going Captain? to the next 135 on-call rat$hit job?

.

We can all relate to the billy-bada$$ tuffguy outlook, but it comes across as extremely...well....rookie.

(backpack or no backpack)

 

[CapnVegetto]

Brandy-new bad a$$ Citation captain (says so 2X in his profile)

nobody gonna fark with him....always a better job out there.

ready to walk.


where ya going Captain? to the next 135 on-call rat$hit job?

.

We can all relate to the billy-bada$$ tuffguy outlook, but it comes across as extremely...well....rookie.

(backpack or no backpack)

Least I have enough self-respect not to stick my head so far up somebody's a$$ that my feet aren't even touching the ground.

Look, I've been out on the job market for about 10 years now. It's not forever, I know, but I've never burned a bridge, never left on bad terms. Not a single one of my employers has a bad thing to say about me.

I don't think I'm a billy-bada$$ tuffguy. I just don't take crap from people. If I'm wrong, I'll bet the first guy to take my medicine and admit it. And rest assured, it's happened PLENTY of times. But I'm not going to give BJ's to get ahead in life. I'll do it my own merit, thank you. I like to think Mom and Dad brought their little boy up right. Would I get farther if I was hanging out of somebody's backside? Probably. But I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

I'd rather have my self-respect anyday.

 

[bizicmo]

What does wearing a backpack have with being in uniform or not?