Our "Team" leader out to lunch

[SilverSurfer]

Giving the ideot a backboard

I totally agree! However, FUD campaigns are sometimes effective otherwise union-busters wouldn't use them so aggressively and desperately, especially when they're trying to destroy the group's unity and will to prevail. That said, if the posting group votes to give the fudspinner the boot (place him on their ignore list) I will follow their lead. Then I'll switch to red boots and put a red anti-fud warning on the bottom of my posts...

Word-twisting fudspinners have an agenda -- not credibility. Give 'em the black boot!

NJW,

You know I admire your fire and passion for our fight. I wish every pilots we have was willing to fight the fight as you are.

If all of us were to ignore this moron and not allow him to side track every thread with his horsesh!t, our communications here would be more effective. When any of us respond to his FUD, providing him a backboard to bounce his message, you are providing a means for him to perpetuate his mission and help make him successful. If we do not respond to him when he takes these FUD shots they go off into INTERNET space as if him and his words do not exist.

I have him on my ignore list all by himself, so the only time I see anything this moron has to say is when someone quotes him. What I see from these quotes is the same old sh!t, same old message. Why help him to accomplish his mission by providing him a consistent forum to to spread his FUD.

Ignore the fool.

 

[Frac Cap]

I will ignore him.

 

[skanza]

You attack me like a high school bully using names like fudspinner, village idiot and wordtwister because you have no other way to deal with the honesty of the opinions I have that are thought of but never spoken by the average non-pilot employee burned by a union.

Your posts are immature, selfish and self serving even though your only involvement is being the wife of a pilot. Success by 1108 at FLOPS will line the wallets of 1108 leadership with the hard earned dues of it’s members and place the company at risk.

NJW, can you directly respond to these comments made by this person? If not, you are staying stuck in a circle of just attacking the poster personally and not addressing things that he/she brings up that should not be ignored. If ignored, then your credability is at risk because of your inability to be objective. Once you cross into attacking someone on a personal level, your argument departs from the sujbect at hand.

 

[skanza]

subjective / objective ?

If all of us were to ignore this moron and not allow him to side track every thread with his horsesh!t, our communications here would be more effective. When any of us respond to his FUD, providing him a backboard to bounce his message, you are providing a means for him to perpetuate his mission and help make him successful. If we do not respond to him when he takes these FUD shots they go off into INTERNET space as if him and his words do not exist.

I have him on my ignore list all by himself, so the only time I see anything this moron has to say is when someone quotes him. What I see from these quotes is the same old sh!t, same old message. Why help him to accomplish his mission by providing him a consistent forum to to spread his FUD.

Ignore the fool.

So, by ignoring him one is showing that they are unable to see that this argument has two sides. That is pretty weak in my opinion. And if you trash me for my opinion, you are subjecting you own to the same disrepect. This is, after all a two sided issue and not addressing both sides is dangerous. B 19 whomever they are has not lashed out at others as they have lashed out at him, thus sustaining his/her credability.

 

[CaveoFalco]

.........

I am quite shocked that you have not been moderated off this board. Comparing NJW to Hitler is not only uncalled for but downright evil and very clearly anti-semitic. Had you ever visited Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, or any other of the places Hitler inflicted his hatred on the Jews of Europe you would never, ever use such an appalling reference over a difference of opinion. You are a disgusting human being for such a reference. The rest of your post is so filled with hate speech framed with Anti-Semitic overtone it is not worth commenting on.

 

[SilverSurfer]

So, by ignoring him one is showing that they are unable to see that this argument has two sides. That is pretty weak in my opinion. And if you trash me for my opinion, you are subjecting you own to the same disrepect. This is, after all a two sided issue and not addressing both sides is dangerous. B 19 whomever they are has not lashed out at others as they have lashed out at him, thus sustaining his/her credability.

skanza,

I have no problem debating issues with someone, and I have with B19 in the past. I put him on my ignore list only after spending far to much time addressing the same issues again and again in what proved to be his fruitless never ending regurgitation of the same old crap. His arguments are based on his supposed personal experience and not on imperial evidence. When arguing his anti union point of view he has been asked by me and others to back up his arguments with information about situations that gave him such a bad case for unions and what this new non union utopia is that he now works for. He backs up none of his statements by validation of his personal experience. The result is a never ending exchange that has the end effect of disrupting and sidetracking other communication that are taking place and this is exactly what this guys mission is. Why should I help him to accomplish his union busting mission?

 

[CaveoFalco]

So, by ignoring him one is showing that they are unable to see that this argument has two sides. That is pretty weak in my opinion. And if you trash me for my opinion, you are subjecting you own to the same disrepect. This is, after all a two sided issue and not addressing both sides is dangerous. B 19 whomever they are has not lashed out at others as they have lashed out at him, thus sustaining his/her credability.

B19 does not have educated opinions, only hatred for all that is Union. His academic research amounts to quoting Wikipeidia so he has no credibility with anyone. He won't listen to any arguments counter to his cause and won't even acknowledge that the facts that NJW continually points out on this board. His references to Hitler show his true inner being and what he really stands for. Shameful.

 

[skanza]

Silver/Caveo,
Points taken by you both and thanks for your candor. I guess that it bothers me that B19 is attacked so much and it seems like the only reason is that because his view of the union is different from the supporters. Some of his views may be based on personal experience, but aren't everybody's? Given that, what would be considered a credible source for examples of the negative affects that unions have on companies? And no, there can't be none, because then we'd be slipping into being non-objective.
Thanks.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Reasonable and objective

Silver/Caveo,
Points taken by you both and thanks for your candor. I guess that it bothers me that B19 is attacked so much and it seems like the only reason is that because his view of the union is different from the supporters. Some of his views may be based on personal experience, but aren't everybody's? Given that, what would be considered a credible source for examples of the negative affects that unions have on companies? And no, there can't be none, because then we'd be slipping into being non-objective.
Thanks.

I believe that any reasonable and objective reader of the arguments with B19 that have been played out in thread after thread would come to the conclusion that B19 is not here to debate. He is here to disrupt and side tract every thread into a pro union/anti union debate using the same unsubstantiated arguments over and over again.

You are right that our personal experience forms the basis of the opinion we express here. And most if not all of us have shared what specific experiences we have had that formed these opinions. B19 has refused repeatedly to validate the basis of his arguments by sharing where and with what company the union opinions were formed. For me this makes what ever he has to say regarding his anti union views as not worthy of any further consideration.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19 does not have educated opinions, only hatred for all that is Union. His academic research amounts to quoting Wikipeidia so he has no credibility with anyone. He won't listen to any arguments counter to his cause and won't even acknowledge that the facts that NJW continually points out on this board. His references to Hitler show his true inner being and what he really stands for. Shameful.

Not true. I have given credible and specific information time and time again. I can counter every union propaganda statement with a historical fact of a union gone bad. We don't really need to go far beyond Eastern, but the layoffs following the downturn in the industry prior to 9/11 should be enough with the stagnant reaction by unions to the financial threat of bankruptcy.

My newspaper articles are generally from the New York Times and Wall Street Journal, although I may have used an occasional quote from wikipedia.

I do listen to the arguments, and they for the most part are given by people that have never been laid off or experienced a work action. I have had my career redirected twice thanx to unions and have experienced the best of my career without the pressure of a union enviroment.

The arguments are also make by pilots that have never managed in a union world to see what it's like.

I have always held to the same exact statements.

Be careful what you ask for, and if you have the courage, step into the action and manage rather than criticize something you haven't experienced. It's a lot harder than it seems.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I believe that any reasonable and objective reader of the arguments with B19 that have been played out in thread after thread would come to the conclusion that B19 is not here to debate. He is here to disrupt and side tract every thread into a pro union/anti union debate using the same unsubstantiated arguments over and over again.

You are right that our personal experience forms the basis of the opinion we express here. And most if not all of us have shared what specific experiences we have had that formed these opinions. B19 has refused repeatedly to validate the basis of his arguments by sharing where and with what company the union opinions were formed. For me this makes what ever he has to say regarding his anti union views as not worthy of any further consideration.

I've validated over and over and have given specific circumstances. I'm just tired of repeating what I've written in my earlier posts.

How many times to I need to make the statement that I was laid off twice due to union actions, and specifically once by a bankruptcy from a legacy carrier and union inaction?

Does it really matter which one it was? Unions burned all of them.. get over it and be careful what you ask for.

 

[netjetwife]

NJW, can you directly respond to these comments made by this person? If not, you are staying stuck in a circle of just attacking the poster personally and not addressing things that he/she brings up that should not be ignored. If ignored, then your credibility is at risk because of your inability to be objective. Once you cross into attacking someone on a personal level, your argument departs from the sujbect at hand.

Skanza, I have a long record here of being one of the most respectful posters on the board. I also happen to belong to the most overlooked/undervalued group of workers in our society--a stay home mom. So I had hoped that discerning readers would recognize the FUD/garbage being flung around by B19. Caveo gets it and many others have, as well.

To those in danger of falling into B19's trap, have you not noticed that: He ignores the reality of frac pilots being underpaid/overworked? That he refuses to concede that those professionals are entitled to a salary commiserate w/their skills and contribution to the company? That my pointing out that economic reality was in NO WAY disrespectful to other workers? Didn't you see word-twisting and cowardly behavior in his going after the only wife/non-pilot on the board when Gunfyter made exactly the same point and B19 didn't say a word to him? Other pilots have noticed and even summed it up as stalking. I agree. He keeps shoving his words down my throat to the point that it's sickening! How many times have I posted that my family was NOT burned by the AA pilots union? He superimposes his opinion of an event in my life and dares to lecture me about respect?! Get real!! That is classic FUD! I've read Confessions of a Union-Buster and B19 is a text book example. His goal in attacking me is to discredit a strong advocate of the Union and thus score points in his anti-union war that we are all being bombarded with.

As Silver noted, B19 rants endlessly about unions in other industries that have nothing to do with the only frac union and their exemplary record. I repeatedly challenge B19 to have a relevant discussion of current frac issues not his alleged personal past. Have you forgotten that he lost credibility when asking me lots of questions about my husband's career but refused to answer my similar questions about his own. No one knows where he works and what his current position is; in contrast, that information is regularly shared by those who post here. It provides a baseline to judge where a person is coming from. Yes, I call B19 a fudspinner (insisting we were burned by the union that helped us after 9-11) and a word-twister (denies me the right to speak for myself about the respect a I have for other workers) because that is clearly what he is.

Here's more response Stanza: B19, who has no direct connection to the fracs is demeaning my right to post on the very issues that affect me and my family. His sexism oozes from a statement falsely calling me immature and selfish. That is his irrelevant opinion that isn't shared by the majority of the frac community. More FUD. Naturally a fudspinner is angered when his insidious plans are thwarted by those aware of his union-busting tactics.

Still following along Stanza.... To accuse 1108 of ruining Flt Ops is classic FUD designed to drive a wedge between frac pilots and scare the Options pilots into caving and taking much less than the going rate for their professional skill. 1108 leaders LOSE money working for the pilots. I point that out over and over and B19 makes accusations that are basically calling honorable leaders petty crooks. How disrespectful can one get?! So the term of hypocrite does, indeed, fit him, too. He does nothing on here but spreads FUD, twists reality and displays blatant disrespect to every union member in our frac community-- and their wives. The reality that he refuses to acknowledge is that 1108 has changed lives for the better, helped bring in record profits to NJA, and that the relationship there between the Union and the non-pilot employees is based on teamwork and fairness. I have pointed this all out many times, Skanza, but as Silver posted I was "spending far to much time addressing the same issues again and again in what proved to be his fruitless never ending regurgitation of the same old crap."

I have been standing up for myself and trying to warn others at the same time. Most here seem to understand the terms fudspinner and word-twister quite well. So I point out the FUD to those not watching and continue to have relevant discussions with frac pilots who are here to talk about current events that directly impact their lives and mine. I will put my respect for others and my honest reason for posting here up against a fudspinning, reality-warping hypocrite any day.

Furthermore,, my boots ARE NOT evil they are a fun part of the fashion craze spurred by the latest pirate movies--that's it!! I just use them effectively to illustrate my points. Only one poster here demonized my boots and that goes along with being a Village Idiot.

Commenting on behavior apparent to all means that I dug in my heels and stood up for the truth.

Those lacking in credibility should be given the boot. Fudspinners, word-twisters and reality-warpers to the front of the line!

 

[Galaxy]

NJW says it best...
I also agree that B19 lost all credibility a long time ago. He likes to claim all this information we ask of him is in his prior posts. All anyone ever finds researching his past is how a guy who doesnt fly nor work for a fractional is all over the fractional board focused on FLOPS. More than just a coincidence? It lays the framework for what his real mission is here.. Spreading a wedge between pilots-union-mgt. If Anti -Union was his real message he would be all over the regional boards as well as the majors.

On to NJW, I can't believe anyone would personally attack her much more appauling is to compare her to Hitler. She was a military wife/mom then to become a frax pilots wife and deal with a husband gone for a week at a time. He should be thanking her for her and her husbands hard work in the military and now for NJA and the 1108.-I personally thank both of them.

He claims how unions are so bad. But he can not give any information relating to our industry (frax) he just continously harps on some imaginary 121 carrier. In fact if the 1108 is so bad why is it so hard to get on with NJA right now and you never hear a NJA pilot complain about company and pay issues. All the posts here on NJA are how long for the interview-or some other type of hire me questions.

Skanza, while you may not care for the union even you must agree that the current FLOPS mgt is more than just inept. All this time and money are being wasted on this fight. I wonder if the union got you a raise via a contract would you turn it down for you own morals? Doubt it..

It comes down to we love a great debate but you have to have some kind of foundation to stand on. B19 has yet to show his foundation or than he was layed off due to a Union. If the airline-(what airline was that again B19) had to cut the fat-they don't cut essential personnel. So he likely had a job like the former and current FLOPS ceo did. They hired all their friends and gave them positions like VP of aircraft aesthetics.

 

[realityman]

Actually, SS has it exactly right. Just quit responding to his posts. Put him on ignore. Skip over his posts. Whatever.

NJW comes in a close second. She also has it exactly right in that B19 simply can't present any RELEVANT info because presently there is only ONE working union in the frac world. And that union has been very successful so far. If he were to hold up the one and only RELEVANT union in this discussion, it would pretty much destroy any of his weak arguments.

It has become a waste of time to debate him. It's the same stuff day after day. No matter how many times you pick apart his arguments he'll still spew the same stuff out again the next day. Kind of the same theory that if you say something the loudest, you must be right.

DO NOT RESPOND to this guy and he'll go away. Unless, of course, he enjoys debating with his alter ego on these boards (in and of itself kind of deceitful and full of serious psychological issues).

 

[bchjetdrvr]

Actually, SS has it exactly right. Just quit responding to his posts. Put him on ignore. Skip over his posts. Whatever.

DO NOT RESPOND to this guy and he'll go away.

Sergeant Hugo Dick asked nicely to do just that. Some people just can't seem to ignore you know who.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=108486

It must be like trying to quit smoking. You know it's bad for you, you know you have to quit but you just do it anyways.


Thanks moderators for moving my thread to the union talk side. Glad this thread made it ok without a scratch.

Moderators - By the way, I've taken up learning a new word each day. Here's my first. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

 

[bchjetdrvr]

Actually, SS has it exactly right. Just quit responding to his posts. Put him on ignore. Skip over his posts. Whatever.

DO NOT RESPOND to this guy and he'll go away.

Sergeant Hugo Dick asked nicely to do just that. Some people just can't seem to ignore you know who.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=108486

It must be like trying to quit smoking. You know it's bad for you, you know you have to quit but you just do it anyways.


Thanks moderators for moving my thread to the union talk side. Glad this thread made it ok without a scratch.

Moderators - By the way, I've taken up learning a new word each day. Here's my first. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Hooked on ignore worked for me!

Speaking of mods...what was the website forum where the mods from here broke off and started? I forgot what it was. There have been A LOT of moving relevant threads the areas uninhabited by anyone these days.
As for the other problems, take it from someone who has recently implemented it, Ignoring users certainly helps make this appear to be a more useful forum and makes for a MUCH better dayimp:

 

[Galaxy]

wasn't it clear and a million.com or something like that?

 

[Voice Of Reason]

wasn't it clear and a million.com or something like that?

That sounds familiar! Thanks !

 

[Voice Of Reason]

http://www.clear-and-a-million.com/index.php
Found it! Anyone know if it is active these days, or is registration not worth it? The forum index doesn't really indicate ANYTHING is happening...is it different once you register? The way it APPEARS based on what you see unregistered, is no posts in a year??? That can't be right, can it? If not, maybe they need to make the whole forum list viewable to the public (even if you can't read the posts until registering)...that way we can see what forums there ARE and if active.
It seemed like at the time they broke off it would be a great community...I just got busy at the time then forgot about it...

 

[netjetwife]

NJW says it best...
I can't believe anyone would personally attack her much more appauling is to compare her to Hitler. She was a military wife/mom then to become a frax pilots wife and deal with a husband gone for a week at a time. He should be thanking her for her and her husbands hard work in the military and now for NJA and the 1108.-I personally thank both of them.....

Galaxy, your respectful support and appreciative comments mean a lot to me and I'll pass your thanks on to my husband for his past military service (includes a DFC earned in Iraq) and his current volunteer service to both the Union and NJA (joint committee work highly valued by the Company). You are completely right that we have made a commitment as a family to improve conditions for the pilots of NJA and the frac industry, just as it was a joint decision for my husband to serve our country in the USAF.
Best Regards,
Netjetwife

 

[netjetwife]

Actually, SS has it exactly right. Just quit responding to his posts. Put him on ignore. Skip over his posts. Whatever.

NJW comes in a close second. She also has it exactly right in that B19 simply can't present any RELEVANT info because presently there is only ONE working union in the frac world. And that union has been very successful so far. If he were to hold up the one and only RELEVANT union in this discussion, it would pretty much destroy any of his weak arguments.

It has become a waste of time to debate him. It's the same stuff day after day. No matter how many times you pick apart his arguments he'll still spew the same stuff out again the next day. Kind of the same theory that if you say something the loudest, you must be right.

DO NOT RESPOND to this guy and he'll go away. Unless, of course, he enjoys debating with his alter ego on these boards (in and of itself kind of deceitful and full of serious psychological issues).

Realityman, I think you've chosen a great board name. You're one of those pilots that I was trusting to see the reality of what was happening. I appreciate that you treat me with respect and discuss current frac events with me. You and most of the other pilots here are a very real part of an online frac community that I'm proud to belong to.
Thank you!
Netjetwife

 

[netjetwife]

NJW, You know I admire your fire and passion for our fight. I wish every pilots we have was willing to fight the fight as you are. ....

Silver, the only explanation I have for not thanking you earlier for the complimentary moral support is that I was swept into the fray... with fiery indignation and passionate defense of myself and the hardworking pilots of integrity that lead 1108. I will follow your lead and "ignore the fool". With thanks, NJW

 

[realityman]

NJW, it's all good!
I just had company recurrent with your husband. Just watching that guy work was tiring for me!:laugh: He was on the phone conducting union business on every break. And at the fax machine almost as much. Got nothing but respect for him.

Whoever our next round of leaders and volunteers may be, they'll have some pretty big shoes to fill.

Keepin' it real!!:beer:

 

[netjetwife]

RM, you now have a very good idea of what life is like at my house. As for the next round of leaders, I think the pilots have been given a sneak preview... Suffice it to say that the StrongUnion tradition is alive and well among the NJA pilots. My family is pleased with the response to the latest big project. The unity of our pilotgroup (pilots and family members) bodes well for the future. NJW

PS I love the Keepin' it real! :beer: signature. You should put it on all your posts.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Another example

Here is another example of the inept, incompetent leadership or total lack of leadership that we at Floptions suffer from at the hands of Sh!tfinger and his buddy Punjab.

In a recent quarterly meeting part of the presentation was from our VP of marketing and sales. He started his presentation by listing all of the phrases that are specific to aviation and the fractional industry that were totally foreign to him and had no clue what they meant. I bring this up because our CEO has made it his mission to hire people that know even less the he does throughout upper management ans he does not know anything.

Below is a email I received from a friend that did some research into the activities at the Kentucky Derby.

__________________________________________

Note Flightaware.com for tomorrow's departures:

NETJETS: 14 FLIGHTS SCHEDULED
OPTIONS: 1 Beechjet scheduled SDF-LAF

Netjets bought all the jockeys britches. They all wore "Netjets" on their pant legs for the rich and famous to see. Smart move!!

Guess ********************finger and the Rag had better places to squander their advertising dollars! Hmmmm!!

_________________________________________

During that same meeting Sh!tfinger and PunJab presented a "the sky is falling" scenario and more negative growth for Floptions. He would not address the fact that all other fractional companies are in a growth mode, adding jets, pilots and owners. He continues to stick my head in the sand and ignore the reality of the situation. incompetence breeds incompetence.

Until this mooron and the group of incompetent inexperienced neophytes leave this company and are replaced with competent experienced men that know this industry and aviation the survival of Floptions is in question.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Sh!tfinger just does not get it

These are from two different post that pilots made on the Union message board but they paint and another clear picture of the incompetent management of Sh!finger.


Another example of MS not having a financial clue! I find it interesting that he states that "fractional growth for Flight Options and other providers has been flat in recent years", yet news articles clearly show Flexjet with significant increases in share sales, with more projected for 2008! How is it that they can do it with their increased pilot expense, but "the industry leader" cannot?

He then goes on to say that FO has a "level of stability due to the five-year contracts..., but the overall size of our fractional business is declining each year." Doesn't this contradict his statement about growth being stable? Doesn't he get it that this also contradicts managements claims about increased customer satisfaction scores? If this were the case, they would be referring their friends to FO, and they would be renewing their contracts. New referrals and renewed contracts do not result in "declining" fractional business.

I laughed at his comments about catering costs being a large category of expense. In the past, I provided management with a concrete example of the waste the company pays on their catering contracts (paying $195.00 for something they could have had for $55.00), but can see no evidence of any changes being made to save costs in this area. Knowing that customers pay an hourly rate with cost of living increases each year, you would think that management would be motivated to cut costs in this area as much as possible in order to show a profit.

Finally, I found the 2008 budget to be interesting to say the least. The amounts shown reflect a break-even budget. You can bet that the investors are shown a different set of numbers, because they are in it for the money. Why would they accept break-even? What else isn't MS showing here?! How about showing a breakdown of management personnel showing % of total personnel and % of total compensation dollars? Now that would be enlightening!

All in all, I found the letter to be more proof that MS is just using these letters to try to persuade pilots that the company can't meet our demands. It's a good thing that most of us can see through the mirrors and smoke

After merger we had approximately 225 aircraft and 980 pilots at our maximum from a total of about 1600 employees .
So we had 620 support staff ( Mx and office staff) supported by the 225 aircraft
61% of the employees were pilots and 39 % support staff.

Today with approximately 125 aircraft and 568 pilots we have about 1500 employees total.
Now we have 962 support staff (mx and office staff) supporting 125 aircraft.
38% pilots and 62 % support staff

If 620 support staff could take care of 225 aircraft why can’t they take care of 125 aircraft?
What are the extra 342 support staff doing?

If the average wage of the support staff is about $ 30,000 per year (with benefits) that means we have an added payroll of $10,260,000 per year more in support staff.

Am I missing something????

 

[netjetwife]

What a mess! So the FLOPS have managed to flop the ratios.... That should make things interesting at the bargaining table! It's ridiculous to claim you can't pay standard wages to the pilots, when you have no problem wasting money on a bloated support staff. HIG needs to clean house with a very big broom--starting at the top! The pilots could run FltOps better just by bringing common sense to the job. Unions serve all employees by holding management accountable for their decisions. You guys are saving the company by forcing the FLOPS to get their act together via a contract with the pilots.

It's just prudent to be suspicious of management's statements during contract negotiations, but when it's so glaringly, painfully obvious that the FLOPS are mismanaging the company a pilot would be foolish to take their word for anything related to finances and/or the contract. My sympathy/shared frustration to the Options pilots and their family members. NJW

 

[SilverSurfer]

More Sh!tfinger lies

These were the lies that Sh!tfinger and Punjab were wanting Floptinos employees to buy about negotiations during the quarterly meeting a few weeks ago. After I had a chance to re read these, the obvious nature of what these moorons were trying to do really pi$$es me off. Lets look at each one​

1. Progress has been slow despite a stepped up meeting schedule between March and June.​

When PunJab presented the slide with these statement the stepped up schedule he was referring to had only resulted in 2 additional weeks of negotiations over and above what had been scheduled. So after our negotiations team had been requesting additional bargaining dated from the very beginning and were repeatedly denied by management, Punjab and Sh!tfinger want to whine about slow progress. From what I have read from every negotiations report management has consistently been the problem with progress not our union negotiators.​

2. Only 3 of the 30 sections have been tentatively agreed upon thus far. The last of these three sections was tentatively agreed upon in November
2006​

PunJab wants the uninformed to take away for this statement that negotiation has only found agreement on 3 sections of the 30 sections he references. If this were true, what he would like the uninformed and the coolaid addicts to believe is almost nothing has been negotiated and we are still at the very beginning. None of the is true, this is a complete distortion and misrepresentation of the truth. The truth is that 80-90% of the contract has been negotiated and TA. God forbid you know the truth. At the end of this post I'll attach a list of all of the section that have been negotiated and TA.​

3. Key contract items such as wages, benefits, and some work rules not even
discussed yet​

At face value this is true, but what PunJab is not telling us is that wages and benefits are never negotiated until the very end. Again he wants you to believe that for some reason our union has not broached this subject for some sinister reason. Not true and another attempt at distorting the truth.​

4. Negotiations have been ongoing for 22 months; the current pace presents an
unacceptable time frame for all constituents​

The current pace of negotiations has been set and continues to be set by the stonewalling tactics of management. But PunJab is right about the pace being unacceptable. Thats why our union negotiators have finally said enough and filed for mediation. At least now there will be a outside witness to the foot dragging that management has been using at negotiations.​

5. Poor economic climate, rising fuel prices, and increased Owner delays are
hampering company’s growth plan​

WTF Over.... What has this got to do with negotiations. As seen in other post its the incompetence of Sh!tfinger and PunJab that are responsible this statement, not negotiations.​

6. Company negotiating team proposed an approach to reach an agreement in the next 90-120 days​

I called one of the members of the negotiation team to ask him directly if this was true. NOT! There never was a proposal made by the management negotiations team even remotely close to this statement. Sh!tfinger and PunJab again want Floptions uninformed to believe that they have made proposals to close out negotiations and the union has rejected them. Nothing could be further from the truth. Again the obstacle to real progress at the negotiations table has been management. I heard rumor that Sh!tfinger offered Matt Slinghoff a insulting raise if Mat would relent on all the other sections of the contract, trying to buy him off. Needless to say our MEC Chairman told him our pilots would surly appreciate a interim raise but we will not back down form a industry standard contract. ​

Bottom line management is solely responsible for the slow pace of negotiations and the resulting filling for mediation. No distortion of the facts will allow Sh!tfinger ad PunJab to hide from the roll they have played in bringing this company to the sad state it is in. No distortion of the facts will give them a place to hide form their failures.​

Contract Section Status
Open Sections
1: Scope (v1)
2: Management Rights (v5)
6: Training and Proficiency Checks (v3)
8: Vacations (v1)
10: Paid Time Off (v1)
13: Crew Bases (v11)
13-001 Grandfathering LOA (v7)
14: Special Assignments (v1)
15: Filing of Vacancies (v4)
18: Union Representation (v3)
19: Scheduling (v4)
20: Expenses and Crew Meals (v2)
23: General Conditions (v6)
28: Hours of Service (v8)

Sections Set Aside
4: Qualifications (v7)
5: Seniority (v7)
7: Displacement, Furlough and Recall (v13)
9: Uniforms (v3)
16: Leave of Absence (v11)
21: Grievance Procedure (v10)
22: System Board of Adjustment (v8)

Sections To Be Proposed
3: Definitions
11: TBD
24: Insurance Benefits
27: Salary
Contract Section Status
TA’d Sections
12: Equal Opportunity (06-08-06)
25: Physical Examination (11-16-06)
26: Interment/Prisoner/Missing/Hostage (09-21-06)

Sections Removed
17: Labor-Management Cooperation (v6)

 

[Frac Cap]

(quote) Doesn't he get it that this also contradicts managements claims about increased customer satisfaction scores? If this were the case, they would be referring their friends to FO, and they would be renewing their contracts. New referrals and renewed contracts do not result in "declining" fractional business.


I will go out on a limb here and make a prediction. I will predict that for as long as M.S. is employed here at Flops, we will always make our numbers for customer satisfaction. This is his report card that he can show mom. It is a report card he controls. By a system he sets up, with metrics that only he knows. He will not even tell the reporters what it is measuring and how he is doing it. He can't let mom know he is not doing well in school. But mom is smart. She knows that junior is lying to her when he shows her his report card with all the A's in math, but he still says 1+1=8. We keep loosing our customors, but they are all happy with our product. Hmmm, I just don't think 1+1=8.