Our "Team" leader out to lunch

[GerryG]

So now B19 wants to educate us about management road shows and negotiations. He claims management doesn't expect anyone to show up for their meetings. How, I wonder does he explain why "M" sent out a e-mail prior to his trip to DAL, admonishing the union's boycott stance and inviting pilots to attend his meeting. He seemed kind of desperate to me. As I said earlier his vanity was showing and he expected to show the union that he could draw a crowd with his email. He gambled and lost, which I think shows how out of touch he is with our pilot group. Also I wonder how B19 explains the fact that "M" could not look the pilots who snubbed him, in the eye after the meeting. Or why did he slunk out of the hotel afterwards looking like his dog just died?

Oh, and we don't understand the way negotiations work? I wonder if he has ever served on a management negotiating committee under the RLA? Not expecting a strait answer. He seems to assert that the union's negotiators would want to drag out the process. Why would any pilot, in his right mind want to delay the additional pay and favorable work rules that will inevitably stem from a contract? Why would management want to delay, the answer is obvious.

This guy is a rank amateur, F&H must have plucked him from their NLRA cadre. I suggest he go back to busting the truck driver's or grocery store clerk's unions.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Pee on B1.9

Flight options will be easier to shut down than Eastern, you know that great utopian non-union airline that doesn't exist. Little hitler, A.K.A. Mikie Scheeringa opened up the eastern front, no pun intended Bwhatever, when he began his attack on the pilots. It is all fun and games from here on out, because many of guys have plan B and C already in place. Death to Options. Don't remember who said it but I couldn't agree more; Flight options has always sucked, sucks now, and will eternally forever suck! You and your fud packing ford and harrison goons had better start packing.

 

[netjetwife]

.... Before you label me as a FUD, or scab, or troll, or whatever else you guys use, just try to look at it objectively and without all that management hate that usually accompanies unions. ....the most important thing in a disagreement, communication. I think you meeting with "M" would be a good thing, maybe something good would come of it. With respect, Thank you.

Skanza, while you are being respectful could you please speak of the only fractional union with facts instead of generalizations? 1108 has set an example for working with management that should be emulated by both sides at Options. Firmness and fairness won the day. Let me remind you that when NJA management quit dragging their heels and treated the NJ pilots fairly labor strife ended and joint committees were born. After the 2005 CBA was signed things improved so much that IBB '07 produced more gains for all involved. If Options management would follow the lead of NJA they would see that their pilots can give credit--and respect--where it's due.

The reality is that those who act like doormats (by this I refer to previously and/or currently apathetic pilots) do get walked on and aren't respected. It took time for NJA management to understand that the NJ pilotgroup had changed, but when the pilots stood firm they earned respect. While a time of transition is to be expected it should be much shorter for Flt Ops managers because a road map has been provided to them by NJA who has already navigated around the potholes. Smart managers learn from the mistakes of others so the frustration we see here from burned-out Options pilots is entirely understandable.

You noted the importance of communication and I agree with you. That said, your advice for the pilots to attend meetings that won't bring their contract nearer are counter-productive. "M" needs to get the message that the serious talks need to happen at the bargaining table--the more the better. He claims that he respects the pilotgroup, but it doesn't ring true. Let him put his money where his mouth is and advocate paying the pilots like the professionals they are! Otherwise his talk is as cheap as an Options paycheck...

 

[netjetwife]

I guess MS is feeling the heat, before he just sent the stooges to hold the meetings now he is going.

I smell desperation.

I agree and it reminds me of tactics the NJ pilots saw before management wised up and realized that they were being penny wise but pound foolish. I posted then that it's always darker before the dawn. That is true for the Options pilots, too. I think your group is beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Congratulations on getting your message across that you are only interested in talks that take place at the bargaining table. Way to go, guys!!
Cheering from the sidelines,
Netjetwife

When you have to bring attention to your cause don't be afraid to stand tall and kick up a fuss.

 

[netjetwife]

.... A pilot contract would help but the culture created by the arrogant/egotistical/unethical management is really the problem. A fair contract would be an excellent first step in changing the culture. That is exactly what happened at NJA. The most arrogant in management aren't able to change their thinking and those types often end up leaving--or get invited to do so. Would probably take a miracle at this point to turn Options around. It's amazing how much difference a motivated pilot group can make. Success at the bargaining table can lead to greater accomplishments. After all, hammering out a fair contract teaches both sides how to work together and shows them how much good they can accomplish when they do.

.... but if you told any one of us 6 years ago that this is what the company would have looked like now, we would have certainly bailed. ....

I dare say that if you had told the NJ pilots 6 years ago that they would have the contract they have today very few of them would have believed you. There is an increasing demand for experienced pilots and service in the airlines seems to be decreasing. I think the problems at Options aren't as dire as you predict, but I do know that it's easy to get discouraged in an uphill battle. I hope that you can take heart from your group's recent show of solidarity. The Options pilotgroup is doing the right thing for your company, yourselves, your families, and your peers in the industry. I admire you all for the stand you are taking. Best Wishes! NJW

 

[netjetwife]

First for all of you that have stopped quoting Bob/B19 and his constant pile of bullsh!t, thank you. You're welcome. I'd like to add my voice to yours. Fellow board members, B19's anti-union propaganda/posts shouldn't be rewarded with a quote. His lack of credibility and unfair comments prompted Silver's request and I think we should honor it.

Bob/B19 has one agenda and one agenda only. Affect the solidarity of the pilots at Floptions, undermine the effectiveness of our union leadership and the negotiations process, all in order to help Floptions management get of easy and turn out a weak CBA. Bob/B19 is a fraud and his espoused mission is a smoke screen.

You nailed it, Silver. That's why he refuses to discuss the success of the NJ pilotgroup under 1108. His irrelevant, unfair comments have a monotonous tone...FUD..FUD..FUD..that actually causes the Options pilots to dig in their heels as they see the lengths some in management are willing to go to to prevent the two sides from learning to work together. What gall to suggest that he is motivated by concern for pilots. He's one of the most self-serving posters this forum has and his refusal to have an honest, applicable conversation is showing Options pilots exactly what FUD smells like when it hits the screen. Just like bullsh1t! Sure makes me appreciate my boots! Hang in there, guys!! NJW

 

[netjetwife]

Remember he went after the Avantair guys when they were thinking about unionizing. He hasn't kept up with them though, so maybe Avantair ran out of their union busting budget?

Bingo! I kept thinking that I'd heard all of his FUD before. I had tried to offer encouragement to the Avantair pilots after some of them PMed me about their situation. Of course the FUD-Spinner was busy on those threads weaving his sticky web and trying to trap unsuspecting pilots who fall for his BS.... I think you're right, Imac. B19 must be a paid poster for FUD and Harrison. Pilots should avoid him like the plague. Those with union questions would do far better to ask a NJ pilot what 1108 has done for them. Likewise, Options pilots sound relieved to be working on their first contract.

 

[Galaxy]

I dare say that if you had told the NJ pilots 6 years ago that they would have the contract they have today very few of them would have believed you. There is an increasing demand for experienced pilots and service in the airlines seems to be decreasing. I think the problems at Options aren't as dire as you predict, but I do know that it's easy to get discouraged in an uphill battle. I hope that you can take heart from your group's recent show of solidarity. The Options pilotgroup is doing the right thing for your company, yourselves, your families, and your peers in the industry. I admire you all for the stand you are taking. Best Wishes! NJW

NJW,
While it is easy for the pilots to complain about the conditions. The problems we fear is that current mgt has ruined the brand name so badly that is almost impossible to recover from the lack of customer service our FAT (last I checked it was just over 10 per plane) so called support team delivers.
The number of planes that are parked without crews is astounding-everywhere you go there is a BBJ parked and if you check flightaware-its been there a week and when you check the book its been green. The maint dept has been working with its hands tied for years and now a fleet shows its tiring age. It has been years since I have heard a happy owner at FLOPS. Many of those early contract are now coming to an end. Almost 95% of the time they have been screwed over so many times they just wait for their contract to expire-then move on to a frax that will deliver a product-not excuses. You can not attract new business with a bad reputation. You can bring in a few clients if you bring the prices down far enough-but even they will want more for the money. This is why NJA is growing as well as FLEX and CS with FLOPS shrinking. They used to be the second largest frax. They still are but now they only hold a quarter of the market share.
I agree with the solidarity and force "M" to make a move now.
I used to think the US Air pilots were selfish with the Max pay to the end mentality. But now I see their reasoning and after enduring FLOPS for 7 years I have to agree with them--Pay up or get out.

 

[netjetwife]

Galaxy, in 2005 after their contentious contract battle the NJA pilots and managers expressed the same worry regarding their reputation; however, amazing things can happen when a fair contract pulls both sides together. I do understand that things are grim right now at Options, but I believe the spin is recoverable. A contract with the pilots and new ownership of the company may be just the breath of fresh air that is needed. Just kicking loose those who have been dragging the company down can give a huge boost to morale. That's why the NJ pilots fondly recall the departure of Boisture.

Don't under-estimate the power of persuasion your pilot group is gaining by getting the message across loud and clear that they are standing firm together. The recent propaganda boycott brings two popular sayings to mind: Actions speak louder than words and Silence is golden. The following ecard is for the Options group but anyone needing a reminder that uphill battles can be won may find it encouraging.
Regards, NJW

http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=186775120&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999

 

[Frac Cap]

I too see uncrewed planes everywhere. That might be partly due to the lack of need for the aircraft due to us loosing customers. I heard we are loosing big contracts because of poor service and the inability to service the customer properly by getting them where they need to be.

When we loose a customer worth millions to the companies bottom line, you would think that would be a wake up call to upper management. They would try to hire more so that we don't have so many aircraft left uncrewed (with two pilots, not just one). Sanjia needs to start singing a different tune, and not just think about his needs, and where our company could fly his family on their next vacation. A true leader and a professional would not put his needs and ego in front of our customers needs. You shouldn't leave our customers without transportation and fly yourself and your family to Cabo. Thats is what is wrong with this company. Letting things like this happen shows no one is left accountable at the top.

I guess I'm digging up old wounds, but I'm getting pissed how fast they are wrecking the place.

 

[netjetwife]

I think upper management was able to sleep on duty because they had blamed problems on the pilots, but now that reality is staring them in the face--across a bargaining table, no less--they're being forced to deal with the mess they've made. The chickens have come home to roost and the new owners will be wise to bring a big broom with them to sweep out all the chicken _ _ _ _ , be it programs, (like chump change wages for professional pilots) or self-serving managers.

GIVE 'EM THE BOOT!

 

[Whoosh!]

Galaxy, in 2005 after their contentious contract battle the NJA pilots and managers expressed the same worry regarding their reputation; however, amazing things can happen when a fair contract pulls both sides together. I do understand that things are grim right now at Options, but I believe the spin is recoverable. A contract with the pilots and new ownership of the company may be just the breath of fresh air that is needed. Just kicking loose those who have been dragging the company down can give a huge boost to morale. That's why the NJ pilots fondly recall the departure of Boisture.

It may be possible that FLOPS recovers but odds certainly aren't in its favor. Yes, a contract would help however, the FLOPS reputation is already severly tarnished and there's still a VERY LONG way to go before the first CBA is reached. Hell, according to the union, mgmt is still investing in an effort to remove the 1108 (B19). This sh1t would have to do a complete 180. Confidence in the company's future is severly lacking among the pilot group as shown by the huge number of guys (senior ones too) that are walking. HIG is an investment company. They're not looking at any long term investment in FLOPS and they've specifically told this to company personnel. It's hard to sell that to potential owners/clients and the numbers are showing it. It would be great if the company could turn around but chances are even if they do stay afloat, they'll end up downsizing significantly and/or morphing into some kind of aircraft management/charter thing. AND, should that be the case, the union would have a lot less leverage in getting a fractional level contract.

 

[Galaxy]

FLOPS has always been right from the start a low cost frax. We had all the bargain basement richers. Any type of celebrety was a weak B lister or even a C lister. FLOPS took a huge hit back when the Dot Commers went belly up and KR had to sell a cash cow to pay them back for the liquidity clause. I agree with woosh. This place is beyond repair and I am sure HIG bought it for less than the assets are worth. The only future here is a charter/mgt company that will rival the suck factor of all the other charter dirtbags. Heck perhaps thats why keep pissing off owners.. It is easier to get them to leave on their own then to have them sue for breach of contract. Fact is the place sucks-even in the begining it was nice place for the pay but we were flying planes with 10K hours on them with new paint and interior. Now, it is the lowest pay for the worst treatment. I think it is time for a fire sale and force M and HIG to make a quick decision. Park em!

 

[bchjetdrvr]

An actual picture of MS/SS & BT all "Out to Lunch"

&

What needs to be done about it.

 

[shanes123]

Galaxy is 110% right..Even if flops survives it wont be as a fractional..Flops has alway been a Flop..The same idiots are there today that were there from the begining. ( with a few Changes). Even if HIG had the sense to clean out the whole place ( which I dont think thats what there plan is) the Brand name is known as the trash of the industry and probably would not survive. Net Jets has alway had Brand name recognition even in the worst of times. THe Smart Pilots at Flops are actively seeking employment else where. The others are watching Babbling Bob Tyler and Brown Nose Timmy Monti rearrange the Deck chairs on the Titanic