Our "Team" leader out to lunch

[Rubber Ducky]

I think B19...

"Bad management can be changed overnight". I think B19 just said we need to get rid of someone in management. I think he is startyng to see the light. Come on over buddy, the waters warm.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19, that was a pathetic attempt to draw sympathy for your rediculous cause. Basically, the logic you're trying to pass is: unions = "unwarranted" events = people killing themselves. You're just as mentally ill as your "friend" was.

This individual was forced into a situation of circumstance that would have never occured in a non-union environment.

There are but a handful of people that have really made a difference and changed the fabric of the industry from an operational point of view. This person was involved in that changeover, and any pilot that has flowed through a regional airline can thank him for the changes that were made. And but for that one item alone, you can take your opinion of him and shove it up your union butt. That is the one and only time that I'll come close to revealing any of my former employers.

Using the "Reason" model of events, the last hole to line up was the union action. I was able to recover from my two layoffs, but I wasn't facing what he was at the time.

I'll never work again for a company with a union on the property. I'll never take that risk.

 

[bchjetdrvr]

You don't just deserve a beer. You deserve the whole damn keg to yourself. :beer:

The company lost when it put in place a CEO that doesn't know anything about aviation. There is a union on the property for no other reason than the fact that Michael Sheeringa was placed in charge. Anything you want to blame on the union, you must first address why it came into reality. Anything you want to blame on the union, you must first blame Michael Sheeringa, who is single-handedly responsible for the union's existence.

He is the sole, primary, number one, singular reason:
-a union was voted in
-why Flight Options is the least profitable fractional provider in the nation
-why the company has historic employee attrition
-why the company has historic owner attrition
-why Flight Options can't attract new pilots
-why the FAA is investigating an infamously corrupt maintenance department
-why the company's reputation has been ruined
-why Cleveland is dysfunctionally incompetent
-why Flight Options employees are the lowest paid in the fractional industry, and the hardest working.

Most pilots didn't want a union at Flight Options. Obviously, things got so bad that it became the lesser of two evils. Michael Sheeringa is the only reason that happened.

To oppose the Union presently, means you support Michael Sheeringa and all of the points made above. To oppose the Union and support Michael Sheeringa means you support pencil-whipping maintenance, it means you support dangerous and abusive scheduling practices, it means you support pitifully low standards of living, it means you support pitifully low pilot wages, it means you support robbing-Peter-to-pay-Paul, it means you support stepping over dollars to pick up dimes, and it means you actually support all of the things that this one man has done to hurt a lot of people and their families.

It is a full-grown man's responsibility to provide and protect his wife and children. Thats the #1. When someone or some thing threatens your wife and kids, you don't sit on your hands, you do something. Since no one would listen to any of the pilots, or take any of them seriously, they were forced to organize in order to get their voices heard and their families better provided for. Period. Its that simple.

The company IS its employees. Nothing more. The company lost when Michael Sheeringa stepped foot on the tarmac out front.

why the company has historic owner attrition

Got an email the other day. Here's a sickining fact.

Flops Seniority List;
2/2007 - 715
2/2008 - 572

Pilots leaving in one year = 143!

Captains - 53
Co-pilots - 90

12 a month saying GOODBYE! & more to come from the whole Canpass fiasco.

 

[WabiSabi]

Tell that to my friend now in an urn in after he killed himself because of a job loss due to an unwarranted union action.

You have reached yet a new low by using your friend as "material" for your anti-union crusade.

You're so full of integrity!

 

[chingaso]

Bad management can be changed overnight. Many of the most successful CEOs never had a day in the industry.

Once a union is on the property, the entire company is forever threatened.

But B19, dont you see that its too late? You're trying to shut the barn door after the cows have gotten out. Your logic is the same as having contempt for the fire department because the house was on fire. You said that management can be changed overnight? How? How does a group of pilots effect a management-change without organizing?

You're missing the point, amigo. You're putting the cart before the horse. You're focusing on the symptom and not the cause. Unions don't pop into existence because they're fun to do. Unions are a result of abusive management. I know a lot of unions aren't good, but neither are a lot of solutions to bad problems. But a solution is better than no solution. The lesser of two evils. A person might not like violence, but will use it if it means protecting their loved ones. Most people don't like lawsuits, but will turn to one when it's their only recourse. A pilot group might not like unions, but will turn to one if its the only way to protect their jobs.

You're right, there are a few successful CEOs without a day in their respective industries. Michael Sheeringa isn't one of them. I'm sure thats obvious even to you, and I seriously doubt you are actually supporting that man. His greatest claim to fame is bankrupting airlines. The best CEOs, even the idiot-savants in their respective industries, understand, and practice, the term 'primus inter parus' (remember your college Latin? haha).

But seriously, B19, I don't see what single alternative the pilots at Flight Options had. I don't like unions either, but it was our only choice, other than to resign, which hundreds have done.

I don't think anyone should have to resign from a company they've worked so hard to build. Most of us were here long before Michael Sheeringa came in stated that our company was 'no longer a retirement destination for pilots.' How does a career pilot at Flight Options supposed to take such a statement? If thats not a career-threatening statement then I've never heard one.

Flight Options is a revolving door for CEOs, a career pilot shouldn't have to quit just because the current installment is an organizational and operational cripple.

But again, and I'm asking this very respectfully because I really want to know: how does a pilot group effect a change in management without organizing?

 

[netjetwife]

So your friend was weak and couldn't handle the situation that he had put himself in. So the only cowerdly thing to do is suicide. hmmmm. Don't look for any sympathy here

I have lots of sympathy for all involved IF any tragedy actually took place, but real suicides result from a lack of hope (there's always another job out there so that doesn't apply) and numerous personal problems compounded by the lack of emotional support. Furloughed workers are typically offered lots of sympathy so that doesn't fit either. DL, your instincts to doubt a fishy story are valid. Given B19's prejudice against unions and his refusal to answer questions about his present job, his claim is highly doubtful. The reality is that Union Busters and FUD-Spreaders routinely resort to fear-inducing lies and bogus scapegoating.

 

[mxpilot2]

Message from the far sidelines-

"Bad management can be changed overnight"

Only if those in position ABOVE bad management see a problem and remove the bad managers. Obviously, there are heads in the sand while this ship is being sunk by bad management. I can't blame the pilots for going Union to try to save what was built- on the sweat of their efforts.

 

[dime line]

I have lots of sympathy for all involved IF any tragedy actually took place, but real suicides result from a lack of hope (there's always another job out there so that doesn't apply) and numerous personal problems compounded by the lack of emotional support. Furloughed workers are typically offered lots of sympathy so that doesn't fit either. DL, your instincts to doubt a fishy story are valid. Given B19's prejudice against unions and his refusal to answer questions about his present job, his claim is highly doubtful. The reality is that Union Busters and FUD-Spreaders routinely resort to fear-inducing lies and bogus scapegoating.

Sorry no sympathy here

 

[Whoosh!]

My union butt is just fine, B19... doesn't need anything else in it but thanks for thinking of me. You're obviously very sensitive about your suicidal mental case hero of a friend. But, instead of seeking counseling, you've decided to go on this union hating crusade. That's why I/we all say how irrational and stupid you sound in your posts. Let me break this down for ya. *B19, who remains this mystery flightinfo.com poster, who no one knows anything about, where he works, his identity, etc, thus having no credibility among his peers, isn't going to make a damn of difference in how the world thinks.* Get it? Probably not but, that's okay. You're good for a laugh when we all talk about you. Might as well drop the dead union victim friend thing though 'cause no one gives a sh1t.

 

[netjetwife]

Excellent points, Chingaso, Mxp, and Whoosh! Here's to you! :beer:

DL, I understand. The story was too flawed and obviously self-serving to be believable, thus it doesn't find a sympathetic audience. You guys are good at spotting the hidden agenda and dodging the FUD being flung at you. NJW

Boots are good for wading through the FUD to reach solid posts grounded in reality.

 

[Freedom]

A True Reflection on B19's (Bob's) Character, or Lack There of....

Tell that to my friend now in an urn in after he killed himself because of a job loss due to an unwarranted union action.

To use the Death of a Friend to try to "Score Points" in a Pro Union/ Anti Union debate you seem to want to engage in, is such a deplorable act, that I am at a loss for words.

But I'm actually glad you did it B19. It showed all readers of these threads just why you are so fire breathing Anti Union.

You are a highly selfish individual who thinks of no one but himself. Seems that you got yours Bob, and you could care less about the rest of us.

To use the Death of a Friend to try and score points. Bob: Your friend is most likely rolling over is his grave at your abuse of his memory.

Shame on you.

Freedom is Not Free.

 

[Whoosh!]

That was good. I don't know if B19 was worthy of such high quality criticism, was he? We are talking about a worthless dirtbag here.

 

[netjetwife]

Who would stop at nothing, even outright lies, to spread his FUD.

Give FUD the boot!

 

[B19 Flyer]

To use the Death of a Friend to try to "Score Points" in a Pro Union/ Anti Union debate you seem to want to engage in, is such a deplorable act, that I am at a loss for words.

But I'm actually glad you did it B19. It showed all readers of these threads just why you are so fire breathing Anti Union.

You are a highly selfish individual who thinks of no one but himself. Seems that you got yours Bob, and you could care less about the rest of us.

To use the Death of a Friend to try and score points. Bob: Your friend is most likely rolling over is his grave at your abuse of his memory.

Shame on you.

Freedom is Not Free.

I've mentioned this friend many, many times as one of the many reasons I dislike unions. You act like it's the first time. It's not.

I'm not selfish. Those that think of unions as the answer are selfish. If they can't have what they want, the get together, create a mob and take by force what they think is rightfully theirs even if they are the minority of the entire company workforce. They take it and everybody else gets screwed.

It has been clearly stated by NJW that if you are not covered by a CBA, then you haven't invested properly in your career because you had the chance at becoming a pilot and didn't. Now that is disrespect. She dumped on every non-pilot employee of NetJets. When you look up the word "deplorable" in the dictionary, all you see beside it is the word "Netjetwife" and a picture of a really ugly boot.
No, it's not shame on me... it's shame on you.

 

[dime line]

I've mentioned this friend many, many times as one of the many reasons I dislike unions. You act like it's the first time. It's not.

I'm not selfish. Those that think of unions as the answer are selfish. If they can't have what they want, the get together, create a mob and take by force what they think is rightfully theirs even if they are the minority of the entire company workforce. They take it and everybody else gets screwed.

It has been clearly stated by NJW that if you are not covered by a CBA, then you haven't invested properly in your career because you had the chance at becoming a pilot and didn't. Now that is disrespect. She dumped on every non-pilot employee of NetJets. When you look up the word "deplorable" in the dictionary, all you see beside it is the word "Netjetwife" and a picture of a really ugly boot.
No, it's not shame on me... it's shame on you.

Your such a tool. And as for your friend, he probably took a dirt nap to get away from you. (I have no respect for somebody that commits suicide)

 

[Whoosh!]

Those that think of unions as the answer are selfish. If they can't have what they want, the get together, create a mob and take by force what they think is rightfully theirs even if they are the minority of the entire company workforce. They take it and everybody else gets screwed.

I would love to meet you in person and see you say this. You'd never do it... you're too cowardly and you know it. Why else would you hide out behind words from a fake screen name?

 

[netjetwife]

There's the Village Idiot marching around the square,
muttering asinine comments and insulting footwear.
He's banging monotonously on his drum fud..fud..fud,
hurling abuse bombs at NJW, but every one's a dud.

Fellow posters beware of Fudspinners and their sticky webs of deceit. They hope to trap you and shove their words down your throat in an effort to stop the truth from coming out. Interested parties can read the actual post referenced by B19 on page 7 of the CS pay thread. Suffice it to say that he has grossly twisted my words (as desperate Fudspinners typically do) and falsely assigned to my post a meaning that was never there.... Watch your step, my friends, and don't slip in the FUD.

 

[WabiSabi]

I've mentioned this friend many, many times as one of the many reasons I dislike unions. You act like it's the first time. It's not.

I'm not selfish. Those that think of unions as the answer are selfish. If they can't have what they want, the get together, create a mob and take by force what they think is rightfully theirs even if they are the minority of the entire company workforce. They take it and everybody else gets screwed.

It has been clearly stated by NJW that if you are not covered by a CBA, then you haven't invested properly in your career because you had the chance at becoming a pilot and didn't. Now that is disrespect. She dumped on every non-pilot employee of NetJets. When you look up the word "deplorable" in the dictionary, all you see beside it is the word "Netjetwife" and a picture of a really ugly boot.
No, it's not shame on me... it's shame on you.

Hey Bob. "I know you are but what am I?" only works in Pee Wee Herman movies. The shame is truly on you for using your chicken$hit alleged "friend". How pathetic.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I would love to meet you in person and see you say this. You'd never do it... you're too cowardly and you know it. Why else would you hide out behind words from a fake screen name?

I have personally said that to a union spokesman during a work action. As a matter of fact, he agreed with me. But it's different over a beer, isn't it? That's when you can talk factual, and not beat the damn union drum. It was just before I got laid off the first time.

 

[B19 Flyer]

There's the Village Idiot marching around the square,
muttering asinine comments and insulting footwear.

There is only room for one, and she wears boots and has no respect for any employee at any fractional unless they are a pilot. She is consistent in her posts. The union must "win" a contract, not negotiate a contract and only pilots are the ones that "invest" in their careers thus they are the only ones entitled to the big bucks.

My pointing out her flaws has nothing to to with Fear, Uncertainty or Doubt. It's only the truth, and she can't handle the truth.

She loves to use the word FUD, but doesn't practice what she preaches. All she does is have contempt and disrespect for those that chose a different career path.

Her posts are crystal clear, and when I point these out, she writes volumes trying to get out of what she wrote.

Shakespeare described her best:​

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."​