NWA Straw Poll on TA

[FlyingFarmer]

Amusing responses to my ravings Occam, perhaps you're not a complete trd to fly a multi day trip with, but your words, however humorous, still give away what a lazy, frightened, self centered pig you have become. This TA most assuredly sells out the bottom half of the list at your airline. You spoke of a time when you were willing to fight and how you were even involved
in that fight, why not now? Until you say enough, they will just keep on lowering ticket prices and coming back for more. Meanwhile, allowing further fragmentation of your flying only serves to further weaken any future bargaining position. Your idea of a mid course contractual correction, also referred to as, ho ho, we'll get'em next time, will never come. Increased fragmentation brings with it ease of replacement and further outsourcing. One more thing, my job satisfaction has nothing to do with this issue, and your inability to respond with any salient points denying my character assassinations tells me that my analysis of you is dead on and that you could care less. While I'm sure you're quite in love with what you see when you shave and urinate in the morning let me assure you, you're words paint a disfigured and ugly picture of your soul and it's consideration for others. I wish the pilots of NWA good luck, with "men" like this in your ranks, you will get exactly what you deserve.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Set the dial before 1937, Razor -- if you're aiming for Harlow.

The PGA Championship Purse for 1936 (Hershey Country Club, PA) will be $9200. I don't know how the purse will be split, still -- not bad, for the depths of the Depression.

Also, smoking will be good for you, and it will be considered good sport to get drunk and drive.

I think I'm going back to the '30s, too.

Your points are well-taken! I was responding to a reference to "the 1930's".

I think I got the decade right. Since ALPA was established 1930-31, I'm right in the Harlow Zone. (Hubba Hubba!)

Some more goodies:

1. The logic of segregation.
2. No Air Force.
3. The man in the White House had non-functioning legs and a strong brain...instead of the other way around (as it is today).
4. Ronald Reagan was a Democrat.
5. Women weren't allowed to be airline pilots.
6. Lindbergh liked the Nazis.

 

[JohnDoe]

Yes, occam, I would potentially vote for the ta based on how it affects me personally.

However, you seem to be criticizing others for voting no; or that are challenging the TA; on your assertion that the ta is good for, or protects all NWA pilots......It is not good for all NW pilots.......

You say sjet will not result in additional furloughs. That is a very blind and wishfull-thinking statemet. But one that I would expect from someone that is a "senior puke that will be ok." They are starting yet another certificate to outsource more flying to for crying out loud. And what happens when that certificate is sold.......hmmm. You actually think that 70 seaters at sjet are not going to replace some 9 flying, that it is in "addition" to mainline???? Allowing the comany to outsouce more flying to yet another certificate, especially one that can be sold after what, 5 aircraft or something ridiculous like that, is a bad idea.

You say that in this TA "The work rules were adjusted in our favor." You left out the monthly maximums. For 12 months after the signing, they are 75-88 with the ability to flex to 90 hours (which, if I'm not mistaken, is 2 more hours than currently allowed for). After 12 months, they are 80-88 with flex to 90. What do you think is going to happen 12-plus months after this TA is signed? The monthly maximums are going to increase right around the time that sjet flying is starting to come to fruition. More furloughs. Higher monthly max's equals less pilots needed.

You also left out the reduced vacation accruals. Less vacation time equals less pilots needed to cover said vacation.

You say this ta is ok for even the lower half. Well, you aren't:
-going to be subject to furlough from sjet, increased monthy max., etc. etc.
-going to be one of those furloughs looking at the potential to have to go to sjet, under those payrates or workrules.
-going to have to fly aircraft under the 76-110 catagory with their reduced pay and workrules. The 9 and some airbus guys probably will. Still is only a 23.9% paycut you say?? That is a nice spin to put on it. You need to look at the fact that the payrates for the 76-110 seat aircraft, which are going to replace 9 flying, are paid even less than the 9 flying now with the paycut.

I have no problem with you voting on this ta based on how it will affect you personally. But don't come on here saying this ta will benefit all/ not have a negative effect, or "taking care of the junior pilot's should be job one," because that is not the case.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

If the age 60 rule doesn't change over the next few months, by the time Sjet starts recieving aircraft there should be no furloughs. Management projected 150-200 additional, however, there should be enough pilots leaving to negate that number. In my opinion, we should start seeing mainline recalls as early as 2007. Hiring should start taking place around 2009/2010. This based on the fact that nothing else major happens. If the Age 60 rule changes to 65, expect 500+ fuloughs and hiring in 2015-2020.

 

[135Drvr]

I'm trying to determine, through an admittedly unscientific process, what the outcome of the coming Member Ratification vote might be at NWA.

Much like 71kilo's straw poll on age 60, how about a poll of the NWA pilots on this board on how they will vote? Including information on seat position, age, and book color might be instructive also. Many will say one thing in the crew room and vote quite differently when the time comes. No need for long dissertations on why. As Joe Friday says "Just the facts."

I'm sure many from other carriers will want to chime in but there is already another thread covering what should happen. I'm hoping this poll might indicate what will happen.

Gentleman, gentlemen, gentlemen,

As entertaining as all this philosophizing and Flame throwing is ( and Yes, I plead guilty as well) may I try to re-direct us back to the purpose of the original thread.

This is a forum for NWA pilots to take a straw poll on the up coming TA. Soooo, if you are not casting a vote or if you don’t have a dog in the fight, please pay attention to the following announcement (which is delivered in good humor at the risk of being flamed to death):

Ladies and Gentlemen: On behalf of all of us here at Northwest Airlines we’d like to thank you for joining this thread. We realize that you have many threads to choose from and appreciate your chiming in on this one. We’ll give you an update on the outcome as we get a little bit closer. In the mean time, we invite you to sit back,…..Relax,….. and enjoy a nice big cup of ……SHUT THE F*CK UP.

In case anyone cares, from what I’ve been able to glean from the last 6 pages, the count stands at 4-NO, 2-YES, and 1- Undecided.

Thank you for your support.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Amusing responses to my ravings Occam, perhaps you're not a complete trd to fly a multi day trip with, but your words, however humorous, still give away what a lazy, frightened, self centered pig you have become.

Ha! You're wrong! I'd didn't just become a self-centered pig. Ask my wife!

But it is good to have you on the Forum, Mother Theresa! Sorry I missed you working at the soup kitchen.

This TA most assuredly sells out the bottom half of the list at your airline.

Based on your extensive working knowledge of our staffing methodology?

You spoke of a time when you were willing to fight and how you were even involved in that fight, why not now?

Because my calendar indicates it's "2006" and not "1998". My company and the industry aren't profitable the way they were back then. I try to match my methods to the circumstances. Let me know if you disagree with that concept.

Until you say enough, they will just keep on lowering ticket prices and coming back for more.

Perhaps. Did YOUR airline recently raise ticket prices? If not, what did YOU do about it?

Meanwhile, allowing further fragmentation of your flying only serves to further weaken any future bargaining position.

The T/A changes the definition of "my flying". Do you understand that? The T/A is reapportioning (not the Tom DeLay kind...the airline kind) that flying.

Your idea of a mid course contractual correction, also referred to as, ho ho, we'll get'em next time, will never come.

"Never" is a long time. Since the corrections have occured following concessionary contracts here, I'm going to disagree with your conclusion, and cite the history of NWA as evidence.

One more thing, my job satisfaction has nothing to do with this issue, and your inability to respond with any salient points denying my character assassinations tells me that my analysis of you is dead on and that you could care less.

I'm sorry I ignored your character assassinations of me. I'll try to do better next time!

THIS IS A TEST: Am not! Oh huh! Sez YOU!

(How'd I do?)

While I'm sure you're quite in love with what you see when you shave and urinate in the morning let me assure you, you're words paint a disfigured and ugly picture of your soul and it's consideration for others.

Wow! You're good. Let's see if you can guess which finger I'm holding up to the monitor right now.

For what it's worth, my Inner Child took my soul out for a road trip, and hasn't called in...like...a month!

I wish the pilots of NWA good luck, with "men" like this in your ranks, you will get exactly what you deserve.

Correction. Airline pilots NEVER get what they "deserve"! Ever! They get what they can negotiate.

Until you learn to understand that, we have very little to discuss.

 

[FlyingFarmer]

Correction. Airline pilots NEVER get what they "deserve"! Ever! They get what they can negotiate

-on this we agree. Now as much as I truly enjoy showing everyone on this board just how smart your wife is, yet what an amazingly poor judge of character she is as well. I think at this point I'll just sit back, relax, and enjoy a warm cup of s.t.f.u.

 

[81Horse]

... Since ALPA was established 1930-31, I'm right in the Harlow Zone. (Hubba Hubba!) ...

The Carol Lombard Zone, too. You know, since we're dreamin'.

http://www.teachersparadise.com/ency/en/media/2/28/carollombard.jpg

 

[Occam's Razor]

Now as much as I truly enjoy showing everyone on this board just how smart your wife is, yet what an amazingly poor judge of character she is as well. I think at this point I'll just sit back, relax, and enjoy a warm cup of s.t.f.u.

"s.t.f.u."?

Stupid Things 'Farmer Uploads?

(What'd I win?)

 

[Lear70]

"s.t.f.u."?

Stupid Things 'Farmer Uploads?

(What'd I win?)

Nothing yet, but you move up to the semi-finals in the "biggest self-serving poser on Flightinfo" contest.

Grand prize: confirmation of your status as an idiot for LIFE.

Runners up receive confirmation of idiot status for at least a year (or until everyone forgets what an a*s they were in this thread).

I'm an honorary finalist, I've stayed at Pinnacle for almost 5 years...

 

[Occam's Razor]

Nothing yet, but you move up to the semi-finals in the "biggest self-serving poser on Flightinfo" contest.

Cool! As long as there's no math and the swimsuit competition is shot through a blurry lens...I am so winning!

Grand prize: confirmation of your status as an idiot for LIFE.

Runners up receive confirmation of idiot status for at least a year (or until everyone forgets what an a*s they were in this thread).

Wouldn't it be easier if the "judge" in this case just stated that he disagreed with my position (but would give his left nut to have it)?

I'm an honorary finalist, I've stayed at Pinnacle for almost 5 years...

Ah...an "old salt". I apologize then. I had no idea you were the uncontested expert in all matters related to NWA contracts, Chapter 11, and collective bargaining. I thought you might have been something of a "newbie" just trying to slime someone you didn't agree with.

Glad we got that straightened out!

As a show of solidarity, I predict you will NOT bid any of the larger jets that this T/A will allow PCL to fly.

Right?

 

[Lear70]

Ah...an "old salt". I apologize then. I had no idea you were the uncontested expert in all matters related to NWA contracts, Chapter 11, and collective bargaining. I thought you might have been something of a "newbie" just trying to slime someone you didn't agree with.

Not my first rodeo.

Furloughed 727 Captain.

As a show of solidarity, I predict you will NOT bid any of the larger jets that this T/A will allow PCL to fly.

Right?

Sure, I'll just go right over to Uncle Phil's office and tell him we don't want it.

Yeah, that'll work.

Like we have control over flying we bid... and here I thought you knew a LITTLE something about aviation.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Not my first rodeo.

Furloughed 727 Captain.

From NWA?

Ah....no.

So what did you think of the Extension Agreement in '03? Did you like the way the Negotiators developed that one? What did you think was the best part? Do you remember what we used for leverage at the time? What was the PCL piece to the agreement?

What? Not sure of the details of that one?

Golly, maybe the "rodeo" you rode in didn't have the same events. I raced go-karts when I was 15, but that doesn't make me an expert in F-1.

Like we have control over flying we bid... and here I thought you knew a LITTLE something about aviation.

NOW we're getting somewhere! I do know a "little" something about aviation. Specificially, I know a lot about the stuff that has been going on at NWA. How much is "a lot"?

More than you.

A LOT more than you.

Not a brag...or a slam. Just a fact.

If you'd like to discuss or debate elements of the T/A, or the Pros/Cons of the package, I'm ready to go! If you just want to "measure weiners" to see who has more Cred on the subject of NWA negotiations: Don't go there, girlfriend!

 

[81Horse]

How does a captain get furloughed?

 

[Lear70]

How does a captain get furloughed?

When the Captain is 2 from the bottom and 60% of the seniority list is furloughed.

No Occam, it was not from Northwest, but that doesn't mean I don't know the history. No, I haven't really liked ANY of the Northwest agreements in the last decade and a half that kept selling Scope for more money and now it's fu*ked you and the rest of your coworkers.

If you think that Northwest isn't going to pull annother "Pinnacle" and spin it off for cash, line their pockets with it, then sell your furloughed cohorts down the river to another ultra-aggressive management group (like they did with Pinnacle), then you're simply dreaming. Money talks, bullsh*t walks.

By the way, comparing go-karts to F1 doesn't have anything to do with comparing a Supplemental 121 727 Captain with a Northwest 727 Captain. Same airplane, same job, period. If you think being a Northwest Captain equivalates you to being an F1 driver, I'm sure there's a certain female F1 driver who'd enjoy wiping the asphalt with your cocky a*s.

Incidentally, that was a nice attempt at a redirect, so I'll put it to you bluntly. Again.

As a show of solidarity, I predict you will NOT bid any of the larger jets that this T/A will allow PCL to fly.

Now, Mr. Arrogant, exactly HOW are we going to accomplish this?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Keep talking buddy, nothing new coming out of your mouth that supports a "yes" vote, just more of the "me-me-me" concept. Unless you have anything new to ask, don't bother, we get it, you're in it for yourself.

I find it interesting that the MEC couldn't even get behind their own T.A. enough to endorse it, and had to give it a "Neutral" recommendation. Makes you wonder why... Or at least it makes US wonder why, you probably don't give a sh*t.

 

[xjlifer]

As far as Flight Info pissing matches go ...this one is pretty entertaining

 

[Lear70]

As far as Flight Info pissing matches go ...this one is pretty entertaining

Well, hope you enjoyed the entertainment, I'm done.

Too much bullsh*t from Occam, the poor boy just can't argue the points, he has to retreat to childish school yard taunts about female reproductive cycles instead of arguing the issues.

PCL, that's pretty funny, CAT has some good guys working there too, but similar to Pinnacle, the good reputation of the many is ruined by the fu*kups of the few.

Good luck to all the red-tails, passed my interview, got the phone call inviting me to class and I'm outta here.

C-YAAAAA (DTW alley ramp tower operator, you know who I'm talking about).

 

[SWA/FO]

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/local/14136640.htm

anybody see this? What a tool.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Well, hope you enjoyed the entertainment, I'm done.

Too much bullsh*t from Occam, the poor boy just can't argue the points, he has to retreat to childish school yard taunts about female reproductive cycles instead of arguing the issues.

Midol?

Hot bath?

 

[Freight Dog]

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/local/14136640.htm

anybody see this? What a tool.

Actually, that's reality, and it is beyond me why NO pilot group has figured it out to tell their respective managements to f**k off with their "concessions requests."