Northwest Flight Attendants Reject Second Tentative Agreement

[320AV8R]

If you had rejected the POS TA, then another TA would have been negotiated in short order with more favorable terms. They played on your emotions perfectly and you fell for it.

Since you are so prolific, can I please get some good stock tips from you?

BTW, the 3 financial analysts, 2 or 3 law firms, ALPA legal reps, reps from Peter J Soloman, something-Weiss & Simon, most of the NWA MEC, the NWA ALPA Negotiating team, the MEC Chairman & over two-thirds of the +/- 6000 line pilots disagreed with the opinion you state above. But I guess you're just better informed.

 

[TurboAWD]

No, he can just see better because he is looking from the outside.
BTW, isn't that what happed to the FA's?

 

[ExAF]

CAll a Waaaaambulance

Didn't mean any disrespect, just tired after having lived two downturns.

My heart bleeds for you. Try making it to mainline and living through 2 furloughs...tiring...very tiring. As a matter of fact, I've been furloughed 42% of my time at the majors. At least you are still working. Everybody has their cross to bear. And no, I'm not whining or asking for sympathy. I blame management and corporate greed, not other pilot groups.

 

[Thomas39]

Why don't YOU stand up for yourself at Pinnacle where you have the distinction of having one of the worse contracts in the industry. Why didn't YOUR pilot group negotiate and obtain a better contract than you have now?Put your money where your mouth is buddy!! How many pilot strikes has Pinnacle had? How many times has NWA pilots stood up and struck when/where necessary? Do a little research Jacka$$

 

[PCL_128]

Why don't YOU stand up for yourself at Pinnacle where you have the distinction of having one of the worse contracts in the industry. Why didn't YOUR pilot group negotiate and obtain a better contract than you have now?Put your money where your mouth is buddy!!

We are. We have already turned down several concessionary proposals from management.

The contract we have now was one of the best for a turboprop operator when it was signed ('99 when we were an all-Saab fleet).

 

[YourPilotFriend]

My heart bleeds for you. Try making it to mainline and living through 2 furloughs...tiring...very tiring. As a matter of fact, I've been furloughed 42% of my time at the majors. At least you are still working. Everybody has their cross to bear. And no, I'm not whining or asking for sympathy. I blame management and corporate greed, not other pilot groups.

You can't blame management they are trying to make the most money possible. Pilots are trying to make the most flight time. Flight time in exchange for pay, that's why you can blame pilots.

 

[320AV8R]

Why don't YOU stand up for yourself at Pinnacle where you have the distinction of having one of the worse contracts in the industry. Why didn't YOUR pilot group negotiate and obtain a better contract than you have now?Put your money where your mouth is buddy!! How many pilot strikes has Pinnacle had? How many times has NWA pilots stood up and struck when/where necessary? Do a little research Jacka$$

THOMAS39 FOR PRESIDENT. :laugh:

 

[320AV8R]

No, he can just see better because he is looking from the outside.

Yea.... with sooooooooo much accurate information. Did he sit through over 10 hours of meetings / briefings, talk to Reps, Negotiators, read reams of sh!t that came in the mail? You guys "out there" have only a fraction of the information. You hear a "nugget" of information, & treat it as fact. You need to separate the fact from fiction.

BTW, isn't that what happed to the FA's?

If you mean, did they "get the correct information".....maybe. They just changed unions. ALMOST ONE HALF of their membership is in BAD STANDING. Only 30% of their members bothered to vote on the last TA. Sixty percent of those voting...... like 35% of total members voted the TA down..... by 629 votes.

Yea.... they have a reeeeal SOLID network...... everyone is better informed on the "outside".

 

[Dumb Pilot]

My heart bleeds for you. Try making it to mainline and living through 2 furloughs...tiring...very tiring. As a matter of fact, I've been furloughed 42% of my time at the majors. At least you are still working. Everybody has their cross to bear. And no, I'm not whining or asking for sympathy. I blame management and corporate greed, not other pilot groups.

Preaching to the choir my dear sir. Rug pulled under my feet from three carriers and more corporate gigs lost due to downsizing or consolidation that I care to remember. I do enjoy and appreciate the fact that I have a job here at PCL. What I cannot comprehend to save my life is how is it possible that ALPA keeps negotiating the outsourcing of Airline jobs to other carriers while furloughing 600 pilots with thousands of hours of experience and at the same time they hire pilots with 500 hours to fly jet A/C's financed by the main carrier, to transport passengers from the main carrier with main line brand. All represented by THE SAME UNION. When are we going to wake up and work together towards Brand Scope? Is up to jets with 76 seats now flying all over North America. Explain to me how a flight from MSP to BOS in a fully automated state of the art transport jet is a "Regional" flight? Even if it has 50-76 seats. We allowed the masterful management's of this Brand carriers to sell us into the idea that these where "regional jets" and they should be operated outside the main line and the pilots of the mainline carriers fell and continue to fall for the same smoke and mirrors story, and the argument is. "Oh it could have being worst."

 

[Lear70]

This is weird, it appears pinnacle is allowing compass to operate one of it's crj's under the compass flag using pinnacles resources.

Smoke crack lately?

That's Mesaba, get it straight...

PCL has pretty strong scope language regarding aircraft being operated by Pinnacle ops (dispatch, scheduling, operating certificate). Ain't no how no way a PCL CRJ is being operated BY PINNACLE OPERATIONS by anyone except PCL pilots.

Management asked for that allowance about 2 years ago, the MEC told management to go pound sand.

 

[Lear70]

PCL_128 The battle to save this profession has to be from the bottom up.

That's a bunch of avoidist ********, and you know it. It takes BOTH SIDES negotiating TO A MIDDLE GROUND in order to protect careers.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: until BOTH sides are working towards THE SAME GOAL, requiring ONE UNION, nothing is going to happen, they will continue to "divide and conquer.

Telling the regionals they bear the SOLE RESPONSIBILITY here is assinine and downright COWARDLY.

9E and XJ were profitable and are still profitable yet your wages could be sliding. If you can't capitalize on your own fortunes, how do expect someone to do it for you?

Ummm, do you know **************** ABOUT MESABA'S CURRENT FIGHT? Their management STOLE the money and the judge let them. PCL is currently WORKING to capitalize on their own fortune.

Why don't you actually RESEARCH before you post and stick your foot in your mouth?

Now both 9E and XJ are in a position to walk out tomorrow and cripple the NWA operation.

*snicker* Not quite. PCL and XJ represent about 25% of NWA's DOMESTIC departures and about 8% of Northwest's TOTAL DAILY departures.

"Cripple the NWA operation"? Get real...

Is that not enough to bargin for the scope you so desperately seek? I have said on here time and time again brand scope would save this profession,

You're right, it would. Unfortunately NWA mainline keeps giving it up.

I'll say it again, PCL has an EXCELLENT scope clause in their contract. "ALL aircraft operated by Pinnacle Airlines will be flown by Pinnacle Airlines seniority list pilots". Period. NWA gave up MORE scope in this contract.

Point that finger where it belongs.

The problem we had with striking now as opposed to 98 was the fact that in 98 the company wasn't going anywhere. Today a strike would have finished the airline.

That's funny, I was taught when bargaining NEVER to settle for any company's best final offer, and always be willing to walk away. What PROOF do you have that it would have "finished the airline"? Did it happen for the mechanics? Is it going to happen for the F/A's? Nope.

The wages were still livable that we had to choose today. The choice of no income verses a top middle class income is a no brainer. You guys however are in a fight against wages that not even Mcdonalds employees would accept. This is not the fault of mainline pilots.

McDonald's employees? I made $75,000 my 5th year at PCL before I left. I would hardly call that poverty level. Certainly could have been better, but again, get your facts straight.

 

[Lear70]

In your own words: "Put down the crack pipe". I walked in 98. Did you?

Nope, wasn't in the NWA family at the time.

Whatever fantasies you conjured at 9E and now Airtran are quite vivid. Please elaborate on the exact improvements reached that ended the strike under pressure from Bruce Lindsey and the Clinton admin.

Pressure? Absolutely. Final agreement better than the pre-strike proposal? Absolutely. Why don't YOU go research it... I was paying attention.

Thanks....since you know all about the differences between the prestrike offer and the final TA. I was there.....you were flyin a Lear somewhere.

No, I was a 727 Captain, smarta*s. See Avatar.

How bout a multi-million dollar fine for ALPA that would be passed down to every pilot on the property? Ask your AA buds about that.

I don't have any Sky Nazi friends. I hate that airline... avoid them like the plague, have over 80,000 miles on AA I can't use from when I worked for Flexjet, would rather buy a full-fare ticket on Southwest or my own airline.

They received a fine because the union underhandedly ENDORSED a slowdown. INDIVIDUAL refusal to work under an imposed contract is not the same thing, the union could scream for workers to return to work all they wanted; YOUR PERSONAL CHOICE whether to work under that imposed contract is NOT something the judge could fine the NWA MEC for. Comparing apples to oranges.

 

[ExAF]

Blame?

You can't blame management they are trying to make the most money possible. Pilots are trying to make the most flight time. Flight time in exchange for pay, that's why you can blame pilots.

I can blame anybody I want if that's OK with you. There's a difference between making the most money possible and a kick in the balls. Believe it or not my undergraduate and post-graduate major was management and organizational management. The @ssholes running companies these days contradict everything that has ever been taught in business schools about management. Yeah I know there is a difference between "the real world" and school. I do have some management experience in the real world too, albeit not in the airline business. Anyway, management today has forgotten everything about ethics, values, corporate citizenship and human decency. They could learn a thing or two from Herb when it comes to the old adage "Take care of your employees and they will take care of your customers and the company." I'm pretty sure most pilots aren't looking for more flight time, they want more pay for less flight time. You can blame whomever you want; I'll stick to management and corporate greed. Cheers.

 

[DTW320]

Pressure? Absolutely. Final agreement better than the pre-strike proposal? Absolutely. Why don't YOU go research it... I was paying attention.

I'm sure you were paying something, but it apparently wasn't attention. I was drawing a paycheck from NWA at the time and still am. Here's what you said:

NWA took a strike, then negotiated MUCH better than their "last best pre-strike offer", or don't you remember that part?

The post-strike TA had a few minor improvements."MUCH" better? BS, and any NW pilot, on property in 98 ,reading your tripe knows that BS gives you ZERO credibility in this. I still have the pre/post comparison from 98. Perhaps YOU would like to give me an example of the "MUCH" better terms. Thanks....

That's funny, I was taught when bargaining NEVER to settle for any company's best final offer, and always be willing to walk away. What PROOF do you have that it would have "finished the airline"? Did it happen for the mechanics? Is it going to happen for the F/A's? Nope.

Really? Did your "teacher" say that applies equally and with same effect when negotiating in Bankruptcy under the legal threat of having the entire contract thrown in the trash? NWA spent over a year preparing to replace the Mechs, but you knew that with your vast inside knowledge of NWA. F/As? Lets just agree that the final chapter of their story has not been written yet and that its premature to declare victory for them. They are currently working under imposed terms worse than what they just voted down. What's that term you like? "Apples to Oranges".

 

[DTW320]

They received a fine because the union underhandedly ENDORSED a slowdown.

Actually, they received the fine for a sickout not a slowdown.

INDIVIDUAL refusal to work under an imposed contract is not the same thing, the union could scream for workers to return to work all they wanted; YOUR PERSONAL CHOICE whether to work under that imposed contract is NOT something the judge could fine the NWA MEC for.

Wrong. Any large scale no show would have been viewed as ALPA defying the inevitable court order to cease and desist and a fine could certainly be levied as well as jail time for Reps. Also, anyone doing so would have been INDIVIDUALLY terminated. That was clear. Failure to come to work under a legally binding imposed contract would be the same as refusing to come to work under the best contract out there.