Northwest Flight Attendants Reject Second Tentative Agreement

[Saabslime]

I thought that for the pilots and others concessionary agreements to go into effect the FA's deal had to be ratified. Since this deal is being forced on the FA's, can NWA legally impose the terms of the other contracts?

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I thought that for the pilots and others concessionary agreements to go into effect the FA's deal had to be ratified. Since this deal is being forced on the FA's, can NWA legally impose the terms of the other contracts?

No, the pilot deal would only come into effect if the flight attendants recieved the company ask either imposed or ratified.

 

[320AV8R]

I thought that for the pilots and others concessionary agreements to go into effect the FA's deal had to be ratified. Since this deal is being forced on the FA's, can NWA legally impose the terms of the other contracts?

...YES

 

[canyonblue]

I thought that for the pilots and others concessionary agreements to go into effect the FA's deal had to be ratified. Since this deal is being forced on the FA's, can NWA legally impose the terms of the other contracts?

The ALPA and IAM agreements will also be implemented today. -Steenland

 

[320AV8R]

lets see, one union caved (the pilots)

What do you base your statement on? Did the UAL, USAir, & DAL pilots cave also? Or could it have something to do with:

--the industry being in the toilet since 9-11

--the industry losing more in the last few years than it has ever made...ever

--oil being at all time highs.....the highest ever

--LCCs operating at a lower cost, because their employee costs are lower

--these contracts being negotiated under section 1113c of the Federal Bankruptcy code (key term....bankruptcy)

--I could go on

one union fought (mechanics )

And a great fight they had..... their leadership never let them vote on any of the 5 or 6 proposals. They showed 'em.

what will happen with the flight attendants?

Only 60% voted. Mgmt will implement the earlier TA on them.

.....instead they fight for a contract that specifically takes jobs away from the junior pilots at Mesaba..... thats a great job you are doing over there (to their union over there.....and the idiots who voted it in.....) i just wonder if they thought they would be protecting the pensions?

Stop taking your wife's medicine.

Please explain....IN DETAIL....how the NWA pilot actions are connected to the Mesaba pilots. Feel free to use bar graphs and streaming video.

Since you don't work here, why do give a rat's ass about the pensions anyway?

 

[Saabslime]

Well that sucks.........Good luck to all the redtails. I used to be a red-headed stepchild redtailer myself and I think NWA management is the nastiest in the business.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

lets see, one union caved (the pilots) one union fought (mechanics) and lost badly (sadly) what will happen with the flight attendants? Would it not have been better to stand together? I hear that NWA has like 1500 flight attendants just waiting to step in. That might not cut the mustard, but it would keep the ball rolling i guess, that and enough to cross the line, as some mechanics did. Now i say this.......when in three years when NWA is making Billions, how will the pilots feel when they are still at the bottom of the pay scale in the industry.... I used to feel bad for how things were working out at NWA, but i have realised that they made their bed, and they can sleep in their own crap. Not to mention......hey remember that thing the union was talking about.....brand scope.....instead they fight for a contract that specifically takes jobs away from the junior pilots at Mesaba..... thats a great job you are doing over there (to their union over there.....and the idiots who voted it in.....) i just wonder if they thought they would be protecting the pensions? might work....... and i am putting away 6% of 29000 into a 401k wow....i will be very well off at 60......

Considering the pilots get a significant amount of equity in the company, if it makes huge profits they will make lots of money.

 

[sniper]

SCAB AIR will be the new name of the Airline coming out of BK

 

[Hulk Hogan]

DAL and NWA took advantage of the old Bankruptcy laws by filing shortly before the new laws were to be put into effect. I haven't heard of too many companies filing for bankruptcy since the laws have changed. With my logic, all its flaws included, that must mean the old bankruptcy laws provided significant advantages to the corporation and significant disadvantages to labor. Obviously there must have been flaws in the old bankruptcy laws which led to the new laws, but why would our law makers continue to allow those old rules to be ineffect for a set period of time allowing companies to take advantages of the flaws. There are many rats in our mgts and they are being fed, or feeding, by the rats that make the laws. I can understand NWA ALPA's thought on creating SJet providing jobs for the furloughed NWA folk. However, I don't understand why they didn't figure out before hand that many of these furloughs don't desire a job at SJet (some not even at NWA again). I think the creation of Sjet encourages competition from with in the Airlinks giving NWA more control in their costs and less contol in the other pilot groups fight for fair wages. I believe this is where DW finds reasoning behind his statements to not sign a concessionary agreement at XJ. I don't blame NWA pilots for protecting what they have (had), but maybe there is some blame in the lack of forethought by our union.

 

[Pilot Knob]

This isn't over quite yet. NWA mgmt has been very deliberate in their approach to this whole thing. Busted he mechanics union(local news reports showed the trng of mechanics long before negotiations got serious), filed bankruptcy days before laws changed and a huge payment was due to the pilot pension fund(currently under investigation for that little gem), somehow got the pilot group to accept what most would believe are DEEP concessions twice, and are now ramming the 3/06 TA down the FA's throat(most I would imagine are very upset they were put in the position to stand up to mgmt instead of the pilots, at least one FA told me this personally). Final act, dumping the pension fund on the Pension Guarantee folks. My guess is no later than spring 07. I personally applaud the FA's on their intestinal fortitude.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

I have found NWA FAs to be friendly towards jumpseaters and that's very nice of them. However, I question the idea of FA being a serious "career" just as wouldn't consider waitressing a career. I can understand $40,000 a year if they were working a full schedule, but most of them seem to have at least half the month off if not far more while a regional PILOT is making half that amount with 11 days off or 8.7 (fricken Mesa). Let's see, a pilot indavertantly crosses a runway and takes out a 747 in the process or a FA spills coffee on someone. Who deserves the compensation? Mandatory retirement age of pilots at 60/FAs at 30.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I have found NWA FAs to be friendly towards jumpseaters and that's very nice of them. However, I question the idea of FA being a serious "career" just as wouldn't consider waitressing a career. I can understand $40,000 a year if they were working a full schedule, but most of them seem to have at least half the month off if not far more while a regional PILOT is making half that amount with 11 days off or 8.7 (fricken Mesa). Let's see, a pilot indavertantly crosses a runway and takes out a 747 in the process or a FA spills coffee on someone. Who deserves the compensation? Mandatory retirement age of pilots at 60/FAs at 30.

I think it's more about making them a non union group. They are the front line and really if service gets bad some need to be let go. If we want to get our image backwe are going to have to make flying a pleasent experience.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

If image is important, and that is questionable, I think they should start with the gate agents. They are some of the rudest, nastiest, least helpful people I have ever seen for a job that requires interaction with the customers. Not all of course, but a bunch!

 

[canyonblue]

This will be fun. Hopefully NWA will use this opportunity to finally get some decent attendants.

I don't think Northwest could get anyone to work there for the money and work rules they are imposing. I heard sick time is accrued at 3 hours a month, vacation at 50% of 2005 and a 21% paycut to boot! Yea, sign 'em up! With Southwest and others hiring, why would anyone want to work at Northwest? The only thing going for them is that they have people who have put in years at the company, that will stick it out. But hiring off the street? No one will want to work at that place when the total compensation is SO much better at other airlines.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I don't think Northwest could get anyone to work there for the money and work rules they are imposing. I heard sick time is accrued at 3 hours a month, vacation at 50% of 2005 and a 21% paycut to boot! Yea, sign 'em up! With Southwest and others hiring, why would anyone want to work at Northwest? The only thing going for them is that they have people who have put in years at the company, that will stick it out. But hiring off the street? No one will want to work at that place when the total compensation is SO much better at other airlines.

It's still better than the regionals and they get plenty of flight attendants.

 

[canyonblue]

It's still better than the regionals ...........

I would doubt that.

 

[Lame Lizard]

Better question should be: Why would anyone want to work in the airline business? It's sad that this is what it has become.

 

[320AV8R]

.....(most I would imagine are very upset they were put in the position to stand up to mgmt instead of the pilots, at least one FA told me this personally).

Did you get some stock tips from this FA too?

Do you know what our new TA is composed of? Have you read it?

Do you know how it compares to the rest of the industry? (Did you see the item-by-item comparisions on every issue negotiated?)

Did you go to any road shows, or read the reams of stuff that came in the mail?

The answer is NO to all the above. The TA was presented to the pilots, & was approved, because it was deemed appropriate for the current conditions. The fact that it wasn't voted down, doesn't mean we didn't stand up to Mgmt.

If I remember correctly, the UAL & USAir guys approved their TAs too.

Did the UAL & USAir & DAL guys fail to "stand up to Mgmt?" The RLA doesn't apply...section 1113c does. Figure it out. At least we haven't had our pension trashed, like the other 3 airlines have.

What they want to take from the FAs is different than what we dealt with. They want to take more from people who make a lot less. The FAs deemed it inappropriate, & voted it down. BTW, only 60% voted the 2nd time, & two-thirds of them voted no...... so the turnout was pretty poor.

Final act, dumping the pension fund on the Pension Guarantee folks. My guess is no later than spring 07.

Your guess is just that....

If they dump the pension, the PBGC gets a large equity stake in the reorganized company.

Do you think that Mgmt wants that?

Do you know anything about the backgrounds of Doug Steenland, and particularly, Gary Wilson?

Better read up on the facts before you start guessing.

 

[SWA/FO]

--LCCs operating at a lower cost, because their employee costs are lower

That is what your management wants you to think. Looks like you have signed onto that one.

 

[320AV8R]

That is what your management wants you to think. Looks like you have signed onto that one.

Do some research on the Legacy pay rates vs. the LCCs pre- 911.

Take a look at AMR, UAL, DAL...... compared to the LCCs. The lower LCC cost allowed for lower ticket prices, which ate the Legacy's lunch. The adjustment was to re-align with the LCCs.

You SW guys are now at the top of the totem pole. Better watch out, your Mgmt is at the bottom gasing up the chain saw.


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