No MDA pilots take Republic deal..

[Popeye0537]

What pay cut? You are pay protected.....

 

[StarChecker]

Thats not a very good comentary on the quality of jobs at Mesa... or potentially at Republic, is it?

Any J4J guys I've talked to that went to Mesa hated it. The J4J guys we have at CHQ are happy to be here and we're happy to have them. I've flown with almost all of them and they are class acts.

 

[Capt.PoopyPants]

Let me try and expain a little.

Mda is operated as a seperate unit under the Airways certificate. it is called officially the EMB 170 division of US AIRWAYS. While MDA shares many items and services with Airways, we have our own dispatchers and schedulers. (those folks work from the same place as ML) Republic is buying all aircraft, the simulator, the Door trainer, and other associated 170 items. IE all of the 170 operation. After this deal is done the US Airways dispatchers ect. will not control the 170, republic will. Sounds like a change of control to me! But hey maybe that is not enough for you. Try this on, LOA 91 also states that the change of control provision will also apply upon the sale of 36.5% of the aircraft. I am not a math major but all of the aircraft is more that 36%. So just because your management and ours claim this is just an Asset sale does not make it so.

Besides all that, no matter what the outcome, you at republic will have 100% of the aircraft as soon as the Airways pilots can get out. I can almost say to a man that will happen just as soon as humanly possible. So worst case your new hires or the guys that havent even been hired yet might have to fly in the right seat for a year or two before upgrade. If somebody told me I would get 25 more aircraft in two years or less, that would be good news, that is what you are getting! This does not count the 3 from Brazil or all the flying you are getting from United.

Ok, if that sounds like a change of control to you, what would you characterize as an asset sale. A few years down the road if Republic was to lose their codeshare with Airways would the control of these MDA assets go back to Airways or would they stay with their new owners. It sure seems like it would stay with Republic. If that's the case, it seems like an asset sale.

 

[FR8mastr]

Ok, if that sounds like a change of control to you, what would you characterize as an asset sale. A few years down the road if Republic was to lose their codeshare with Airways would the control of these MDA assets go back to Airways or would they stay with their new owners. It sure seems like it would stay with Republic. If that's the case, it seems like an asset sale.

This is not my idea, this is what the company agreed to in LOA 91. Personally if repulic was buying the sim? Sale... a few aircraft? sale... a combination? sale... The whole entire operation? change of control. Again this is what is in LOA 91

Bottom line Airways managment wants the 100mil. to pull it off they need to eliminate as many people as possible from the deal. Why you ask? because your boss wants the windfall of profits that come with these contract deals (cost plus). To pull this off your boss also does not want the people, only because your pilots will try and stop this. rightfully so. SO if these management types can rid themselves of the MDA pilots our management and yours are happy. But its not that easy, there is the J4J problem, the easiest solution for the brain trust is to make it the lowest possible number so the CHQ pilots will take it. Then it happened the MDA pilots drew a line in the sand and said NO! They will try and enforce the contract that Airways agreed too. The CHQ pilots WILL end up with ALL these AC in the end.

 

[FR8mastr]

Right control of the 170 division....Not the 757,767,A330 etc. Does LOA 91 specify grouping of aircraft?

Crazy I know, but this was all managements idea as they tried to make MDA a seperate airline. That never happened but that is why it is the way it is. And yes LOA 91 does specify the the 170 aircraft.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Im not a math major either, .

No but your previous post is quite disapointing. This is America. Jet jobs aren't the only offer.

Before we sell out the profession maybe we should stick together and make it better....

Until you are with us...perhaps the couch is cool palce to hang out until you're ready.... and when you're ready we'll be happy to have you.....

You are either with us or against us....

-GWB or DV

 

[Capt.PoopyPants]

This is not my idea, this is what the company agreed to in LOA 91. Personally if repulic was buying the sim? Sale... a few aircraft? sale... a combination? sale... The whole entire operation? change of control. Again this is what is in LOA 91

Bottom line Airways managment wants the 100mil. to pull it off they need to eliminate as many people as possible from the deal. Why you ask? because your boss wants the windfall of profits that come with these contract deals (cost plus). To pull this off your boss also does not want the people, only because your pilots will try and stop this. rightfully so. SO if these management types can rid themselves of the MDA pilots our management and yours are happy. But its not that easy, there is the J4J problem, the easiest solution for the brain trust is to make it the lowest possible number so the CHQ pilots will take it. Then it happened the MDA pilots drew a line in the sand and said NO! They will try and enforce the contract that Airways agreed too. The CHQ pilots WILL end up with ALL these AC in the end.

I agree that if LOA 91's wording shows this as a change of control then you guys should be going after what you can get. You have a case against Airways.

I'm really just tired of people bashing CHQ/Republic over this when they really don't know what's going on. We currently have Airways J4J jobs as you know, and they are a valuable part of this company. How many other Airways codeshare regionals have J4J's agreements. Not to mention J4J's guys that are still there. I know you weren't bashing CHQ, but others were. It's a decent pilot group that doesn't want to see any MDA guys on the street, Just whats fair for everybody.

 

[Popeye0537]

Rez, you need to open up your eyes and see whats going on around you...this is America, the land of opprotunity. With all the sticking together what is that going to accomplish? Every pilot making $200k a year? Probably not, so what do you suggest I do.


Sit on the couch and watch my house be forclosed on, my car and boat repoed just so that a few can prove a point. I already stand behind my union, as weak as it may be, but it still looks out for me.

I guess you think all the problems with the Majors are the responsibility of the, or better from the regionals. You need to take a good look at yourself in the mirror and see I'm not your problem.

 

[Popeye0537]

opportuniyt....lol

 

[Popeye0537]

its late..i'm goin to bed......lmao opportunity

 

[CFII]

So with all the name calling and arguing aside, what does this realistically mean for both sides. Will CHQ/Rep/Whoever just take control of the planes without the pilots or what is likely to happen? I know nothing is for certain, but any genuine thoughts on this? Thanks!

 

[Crzipilot]

I support my union....but uhmmm a job is being offered so you better jump on it, no matter what the terms are. what a oxymoronic statement, and a clear example of WHY this career has changed to what it is. the problem isn't the unions, it's the pilots.

 

[HughBeamont]

It's just refreshing for a pilot group, ANY pilot group, to say get fukt to a management offer. And anyone that takes the "but it's better than industry average" viewpoint, please remember that the industry average sucks balls. I think someone used the term "growing all-jet operator" earlier in this thread - save it for the flight instructors.

 

[kngarthur]

Causes Republic July 19, E-170 class to cancel.

Saw this on another web site.
If this is true, one pilot group is taking a stand of "One for All" against management.

Any MDA pilots confirm or deny?

I better get my ATP wriiten done!

 

[J32driver]

Wow!

OK, I'm a simple guy. USAirways hands planes over to Republic.... so they can fly them for USAirways. That sounds like a change of control to me.

CHQ pilots: This is your opportunity to stand up and help stop the destruction. If you guys want some respect, you have to earn it. STAND UP AND SUPPORT THE MDA GUYS!

 

[Popeye0537]

J32 What are we as "CHQ pilots" supposed to do?? This is a Management decision. How do we support MDA pilots? These guys were offered employment by CHQ in the last J4J deal and they snubbed their noses at us. Now I'm supposed to support those pilots who told me to go fuc@ myself and took the job with MDA because a job at CHQ was beneath them??

MDA pilots are afraid that their going to be junior to the other J4J'rs already here, thats why they want the US air DOH.

J32 not much I can do about it on my end

 

[kngarthur]

Wow!

OK, I'm a simple guy. USAirways hands planes over to Republic.... so they can fly them for USAirways. That sounds like a change of control to me.

CHQ pilots: This is your opportunity to stand up and help stop the destruction. If you guys want some respect, you have to earn it. STAND UP AND SUPPORT THE MDA GUYS!

Not going to happen!! I know this---man!

 

[low-key]

Why in the hell should I support a bunch of guys who when the shoe was on the other foot would f*ck me faster than a 2 dollar hooker in Harlem?? Awaiting your reply oh mighty J32 Driver

 

[kngarthur]

J32 What are we as "CHQ pilots" supposed to do?? This is a Management decision. How do we support MDA pilots? These guys were offered employment by CHQ in the last J4J deal and they snubbed their noses at us. Now I'm supposed to support those pilots who told me to go fuc@ myself and took the job with MDA because a job at CHQ was beneath them??

MDA pilots are afraid that their going to be junior to the other J4J'rs already here, thats why they want the US air DOH.

J32 not much I can do about it on my end

This is all true! They had their chance a long time ago! Why should I think that a MDA pilot should get to be a capitan before me? Just because their prior US Air?

 

[kngarthur]

The reason CHQ wants them to sign the contract is because they'll get a free 170 type rating, quit, and then go to JetBlue!

 

[91100 100 set]

These guys were offered employment by CHQ in the last J4J deal and they snubbed their noses at us. Now I'm supposed to support those pilots who told me to go fuc@ myself and took the job with MDA because a job at CHQ was beneath them??

Pretty bold statement. I'm sure thats exactly what happened, as opposed to people making the decision they felt was best for them, their families, and their situation, based on the information available at the time.

I'm a little torn myself about the whole deal. As a current CHQ, former ALG, and almost MDA pilot, I probably have a little more emotional baggage than your typical CHQ guy. Am I excited about the opportunity afforded by the transfer of the airplanes? As a CHQ pilot, you bet I am. Am I happy about it? As a former ALG pilot who was less than 2 weeks away from taking the flow-through along with a number of former coworkers, I'm not so sure. ALG blood runs thick (the few of you who know me will understand that statement).

 

[low-key]

I too spent a little time at ALG and I'll tell you one thing. ALG hates CHQ guys, plain and simple. I flew with some of the most arrogant a$$holes you could imagine. I still have friends there, but I dont feel bad for them. I offered or even got some of them interviews with CHQ and some said they would never come here and 2 didnt even show up for the interview when they got one. WTF? I just don't feel bad anymore. The people I offered to get out could be captains right now at CHQ But ALG is just sooooooooooo much better

 

[stb]

The reason CHQ wants them to sign the contract is because they'll get a free 170 type rating, quit, and then go to JetBlue!

Most already have the 170 type and a majority also have the Airbus type.

What if MDA pay rates/QOL are established at REP? (Not good but better than REP)
Would CHQ pilots want to keep their old rates?

Looks like the MDA group is fighting to stay at USAirways mainline. They dont want to be a part of the REP/CHQ senority list.
Planes and jobs stay at USAirways E-170 Division.

What is interesting is how the majority of people on this board complains about its a race to the bottom etc., but then when one group say enough is enough and puts their money where their mouth is and draws a line in the sand, another group complains about where are our "shiney new jets".

We all know who on this board whould cross the line in the sand if they were at MDA and they had some carrots dangling in their face.

Finally a pilot group top to bottom including the Chief Pilot have figured out those aren't carrots!

 

[StarChecker]

I too spent a little time at ALG and I'll tell you one thing. ALG hates CHQ guys, plain and simple. I flew with some of the most arrogant a$$holes you could imagine.

Exactly....after all the slow taxis ahead of us...blocked radio transmissions at LGA...comments from across the crewroom...me thanking a crew after a deadhead and hearing "Not like we had a choice"...etc etc etc.

We don't want these bitter a$$clowns anymore than they want to be here.

 

[Mike15601]

Question again...why cant Republic get off the ground with their own check airman and proving run guys? I have seen the E170's out on revenue flights on the CHQ side. Where are the people who did all that stuff for them? This whole thing has me very confused. Again, why would anyone at MDA say yes to coming to an airline that does not have its first 170 or a certificate to operate it?

 

[Corbon]

Exactly....after all the slow taxis ahead of us...blocked radio transmissions at LGA...comments from across the crewroom...me thanking a crew after a deadhead and hearing "Not like we had a choice"...etc etc etc

I always loved those blocked radio transmissions. I can just imagine some brand new FO keying the mike with that satisfied "I really showed him" look on his face. Ok, ya got me. I had to call clearance twice. Yeah, you really schooled me dude.

 

[J32driver]

Why in the hell should I support a bunch of guys who when the shoe was on the other foot would f*ck me faster than a 2 dollar hooker in Harlem?? Awaiting your reply oh mighty J32 Driver

Thats actually pretty funny. I like it.

Why? Because at some point, pilots through their Unions are going to have to stand up and fight for the profession. Fighting for the profession unfortunately means putting your own career second in order to help the job as a whole. Now... "why should I do that" you ask? Because 5 or 10 years from now, when you guys have fought and won a good contract that puts you at the head of your class... 2 CEOs are going to get togethor and transfer your planes to a group of 300 hour CFIs who will fly the planes for 50% of what your are. THEN... you will understand why you guys should be fighting for the jobs of your fellow pilots.

The airplanes will always be transfered to the lowest bidder until the pilots figure out how to stop it. Remember... CHQ won't be the lowest bidder forever. There are always more hungry CFIs.

"How do I as a CHQ pilot show some support for the MDA guys?" Go talk to your union reps. Tell them its imperative that the management must honor whatever LOAs and agreements are in place. Thats it. Don't try and dodge the semantics of the problem. This is an in-system transfer of flying from a Mainline entity to an Express carrier. You know it, we know it, the MDA guys know it, the management folks know it. Just don't allow the company lawyers to twist the truth.

 

[vclean]

While everyone argues about protecting the profession and stopping the downward slide, don't forget that perhaps the biggest threat comes from across the ponds. Cabotage.

 

[J32driver]

While everyone argues about protecting the profession and stopping the downward slide, don't forget that perhaps the biggest threat comes from across the ponds. Cabotage.

AMEN BRUTHA!!!

 

[lear24]

This thread shows clearly that there are just some who get it, and others (seamingly most) that do not and will not. Complain about your wages and how badly your company abuses you and then go to work to do it over and over again. When another group draws a line and refuses to cross it, you state that you generously offered them jobs and they snubbed their noses at it. What you fail to understand is that those shiny little jets falling into your lap have to operate under the J4J agreement. You're not offering the jobs here, you are the ones being offered half the jobs. Working for your company is so undesireable that you get to have them all because those who do get it are refusing to participate. I by no means supported nor voted to allow the J4J protocol to be accepted, but it is what it is and this mentality of entitlement in an ever-accelerating race to the bottom is alarming!

On another note, the reason the "a$$clowns" at ALG who thought they had it "sooooo much better" didn't care for most of CHQ is mainly two-fold. One reason for it is watching the outsourcing of express flying passing them over in favor of those who would do it for less, a common sentiment shared among all of those hurt by outsourcing who are trying to make a living. ALG wasn't just a stepping stone, it was a place that you could stay at, live where you wanted to live, and make a decent living at it. Those who were there for a while had to watch it die slowly, while little jets arrived all around them being operated for less, kind of like a mom and pop store watching their whole town adoring the new wal-mart. Another reason for the hate is because of the attitude of the entitled new kids on the block who can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that they are participating in the race for the bottom and the mutilation of this profession. I do think there was a lot of misdirected hostility, and frustration that came out towards individuals who did not neccessarily deserve it.

My hat is off to my friends and their brothers at MDA. It's truly refreshing.