NJA sucks

[hawkercpt]

Amazing... Talk now of "augering-in" aircraft. I don't think I've heard the term "auger-in" since watching "The Right Stuff". What's involved when you auger in anyway???

au·ger https://secure.reference.com/premiu...ttp://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=auger ([font=verdana, sans-serif] P [/font]) Pronunciation Key

1. 1. <LI type=a>Any of various hand tools, typically having a threaded shank and cross handle, used for boring holes in wood or ice.
   2. A drill bit.
2. 
   
   1. A machine having a rotating helical shaft for boring into the earth.
   2. A rotating helical shaft used to convey material, as in a snow blower.

 

[x402]

We've seen how well these 'investigations' work, people get promoted, not shown the door. I doubt that you can hear a heated discussion going on in the SOC from over there in dispatch.

 

[h25b]

au·ger ([font=verdana, sans-serif] P [/font]) Pronunciation Key

1. 1. <LI type=a>Any of various hand tools, typically having a threaded shank and cross handle, used for boring holes in wood or ice.
   2. A drill bit.
2. 
   
   1. A machine having a rotating helical shaft for boring into the earth.
   2. A rotating helical shaft used to convey material, as in a snow blower.

Things are truely bad now at NetJets... Rotating helical shafts, things boring in to the Earth, material being conveyed, threaded shanks, cross handles, and so on ... First I thought this talk of "augering" was just the talk of some melodramatic pilots, now I think it's a regular construction site.

 

[dsptchrnja]

We've seen how well these 'investigations' work, people get promoted, not shown the door.

Please don't pass this stuff off as if it were true without citing examples.

I doubt that you can hear a heated discussion going on in the SOC from over there in dispatch.

Thats not the point now is it?

 

[beytzim]

To Ace-of-the-base and others:

My post earlier was not melodramatic, unprofessional, or silly. Most of us like to boast how professional we are or how we seek to perfect our flying skills, communications, and behaviors. Truth be told, we are ALL flawed, as we are human. We have feelings and emotions. To deny them would be silly.

To say that going through a divorce does not affect your flying is bordering on stupidity or arrogance. To say that once you're in the cockpit, you're all of a sudden a robot who immediately forgets about your families, your mortgage payment, or job security is just lying to yourself. You may not think about it during decision height, but you're thinking about it during cruise, on every flight, period.

Simply put, the delay of the contract has put many families' lives, marriages, mortgage payments, and dreams at jeopardy. To compound, the alleged deceiptful actions of the company smack many pilots in the face on each flight.

These thoughts felt during cruise flight, or perhaps during a pre-flight or post-flight period where concentration is not at it's peak CAN affect the outcome of the flight - I don't care how professional you think you are.

I am relaying information from pilots who have spoken to me on the line. You can choose to insult me, but that's not going to fix the attitudes of Netjets pilots.

By the way, I am leaving Netjets to brighter pastures, but I recognize that many pilots cannot because of age, experience, financial requirements or simply due to the fact that the aviation industry is not hiring a lot of pilots now.

And, oh by the way, I am sober right now.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Say hello to Herb for me...

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Simply put, the delay of the contract has put many families' lives, marriages, mortgage payments, and dreams at jeopardy.

I'm sorry, I just don't see how any intelligent human being could take a job that would not sustain their family unless the pay went up. Seems really irresponisble. I don't think anyone should take a job if they cannot live for several years on the CURRENT salary (hopes, dreams and promises don't pay bills).

Ace

 

[Lrjet55]

Ace-of-the-base,


You must be the perfect individual who never does anything wrong and makes all the correct descisions.

Many, many people took the job at NJA because they were specifically told years ago that the contract was right around the corner. Many pilots were furloughed and accepted the job because it was the only job available at the time. Families have had additional children or due to unforseen events they are close to financial hardship.

I guess being perfect you couldn't possible understand what our lives are like so please refrain from making ignorant statements.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Ace-of-the-base,


You must be the perfect individual who never does anything wrong and makes all the correct descisions.

Many, many people took the job at NJA because they were specifically told years ago that the contract was right around the corner. Many pilots were furloughed and accepted the job because it was the only job available at the time. Families have had additional children or due to unforseen events they are close to financial hardship.

I guess being perfect you couldn't possible understand what our lives are like so please refrain from making ignorant statements.

This isn't perfection, buddy, just common sense. You don't take a job for less than you need to live! If your situation changes, you look for a job that DOES support your new requirements. Simple. I don't think it is ignorant to apply some simple economics and math to this. I think it's great for you guys to fight for fair wages, but it's sheer stupidity to count on it.

Ace

 

[El Chupacabra]

Ace,

There are pleny of reasons to take a job that does not pay what you need it to.

as an example,
My RICH DAD says you should take a job for experience not for money.

I guess he means so you can take away the knowledge you need and can apply in a Business of your own.

Well not many of the pilots were in it for that. But as a pilot if you are furloughed or otherwise not flying you have an issue with currency. When applying for another job you may find that to stay flying is worth more than the pay itself. Granted someone in this situation should do so only as long as it takes to MOVE ON.

Yes Ace, I admit I foolishly hung around longer than originally intended. Passing on better deals. We have seemed to be just 6 months away from settling things for over 4 yrs now. 4 years ago with 29 BBJs on order I did the math and figured I could be in Left seat of the 737 faster here than by going to SWA. I was wrong.

In for a dime, in for a dollar.

 

[acaTerry]

My RICH DAD says you should take a job for experience not for money.

This statement sums up the character of about 65% of the "professionals" on the Regional boards of this website.
Bingo Chup!

 

[aeronautic1]

First Hire

Gee, remember when you got the call that you were a new hire at NetJets? Oh, what a feeling!! Great company, great schedule, everything that Part 135 wasn't.

Now, it's all BOO HOO!!!!

 

[El Chupacabra]

Well,

There are times when that attitude pays off.... like when you could quickly leave the regionals and go on to a Major.

Managements benefit from this trend by not having to pay what they should be paying.

Gotta be some way to put a stop to it. Like a national union. A cartel that sets the bottom line.

 

[aeronautic1]

Funny

how you would put Union and Cartel in the same context. Organized crime? Look at how well the majors pilot group are represented by their unions. Lay down with NetJets union reps and wake up with fleas.

 

[El Chupacabra]

What's funny? Don't you know what a Cartel is? The Cartel (monopoly) is the goal of Capitalism. Few businesses want to compete on PRICE COMPETITION.

 

[gern_blanston]

Well, Managements benefit from this trend by not having to pay what they should be paying.

Like when United was owned/run/managed by pilots, and they gave themselves the highest wage/benefit/retirement package in the industry?
Limited time offer, eh? Let's just make minimum wage $25/hr so everyone can be happy.

Gotta be some way to put a stop to it. Like a national union. A cartel that sets the bottom line.

Mmmmm... Communism...

 

[G100driver]

Gern:

It was not wages that ran United into the ground.

BTW, why are you wasting your time with this? Do you like pounding your head against an unmovable brick wall

 

[El Chupacabra]

Mmmmm... Communism...

No sir. Monopoly and Cartel are the province of the Capitalist. They do not want to operate on price Competition.

 

[Publishers]

Trust me, the Soviets loved the words cartel and monopoly equally as well.

 

[El Chupacabra]

I suppose they invented it. Cartels go back at least to ancient Rome. Predating the Soviets by quite a while.

Cartels involve the cooperation of individual businesses. There were a lot of those in Soviet Union eh?

It is true however that LARGE US corporations were and are attracted to Communist countries where they may be granted monopoly status as the sole provider of Cola or certain fast foods, or other products.

When one thinks of Cartels ... how about Standard Oil?
and IG Farben? .

 

[gern_blanston]

It was not wages that ran United into the ground.

Of course it wasn't wages alone. United just makes a great example of how a labor/union/power-to-the-people mindset isn't the panacea that some people seem to think it is. I just like to offer a counterpoint to the folks who think that mandated behavior, whether government-enforced or union-sponsored, is better than free-market behavior.

BTW, why are you wasting your time with this? Do you like pounding your head against an unmovable brick wall

I'm temporarily unemployed, so I've got a little time on my hands to beat the ol' noggin against an immovable object.
And, as you know, my head is EXTREMELY hard.

 

[G100driver]

After I wrote that I figger'd you'd correct me!

 

[gern_blanston]

I am such a colossal pain in the @$$.

 

[beytzim]

AceoftheBase,

I don't understand why you don't get this. Perhaps I should explain it in laymen's terms.

Bob Smith, whose 45, comes to Netjets with hopes and dreams of making a six figure salary in a few years. He tells his wife and his kids that soon they'll be able to buy a new car and go on nice vacations. The company and the union both say the pay raise is just a few months away.

Month after month, Bob waits, his wife, on the other hand is nagging him about the raise. His kids are now off to college, but no nice vacations as promised. The union and the company are saying to hold on just a few more months.

Bob waits. His wife is now pestering him about the so called raise. His kids want to take some electives, but he can't afford that. Forget about that new car. Soon, though, soon, Bob knows.

The union announces a contract is just around the corner. The company says they want to get this done asap. Bob is reassured.

Bob waits. The wife is now pissed. Where's the money, Bob? The kids come home for summer, but not going on vacation anywhere. The **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** car's AC went out again. The raise should be here by Fall.

It's now four years later, Bob is 49 and too old for an airline. If he leaves, he'll take a pay cut and even move, so he can't. He's stuck. So now he's pissed off, sad, agrivated, and frustrated with his decision making for the last four years.

But certainly he isn't thinking about any of that when he's flying at FL390.

 

[gern_blanston]

Bob should've become an insurance salesman.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

AceoftheBase,

I don't understand why you don't get this. Perhaps I should explain it in laymen's terms.

Bob Smith, whose 45, comes to Netjets with hopes and dreams of making a six figure salary in a few years. He tells his wife and his kids that soon they'll be able to buy a new car and go on nice vacations. The company and the union both say the pay raise is just a few months away.

Month after month, Bob waits, his wife, on the other hand is nagging him about the raise. His kids are now off to college, but no nice vacations as promised. The union and the company are saying to hold on just a few more months.

Bob waits. His wife is now pestering him about the so called raise. His kids want to take some electives, but he can't afford that. Forget about that new car. Soon, though, soon, Bob knows.

The union announces a contract is just around the corner. The company says they want to get this done asap. Bob is reassured.

Bob waits. The wife is now pissed. Where's the money, Bob? The kids come home for summer, but not going on vacation anywhere. The **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** car's AC went out again. The raise should be here by Fall.

It's now four years later, Bob is 49 and too old for an airline. If he leaves, he'll take a pay cut and even move, so he can't. He's stuck. So now he's pissed off, sad, agrivated, and frustrated with his decision making for the last four years.

But certainly he isn't thinking about any of that when he's flying at FL390.

Thanks for explaining in laymen’s terms, now it’s clear: Bob is stupid.



Bob is stupid for planning a future based on promises instead of current facts (man, if I had a nickel for every promise).

Bob is stupid to think that 27 grand is magically going to turn into six figures.

Bob is stupid to believe everything he hears in an interview.

Bob is stupid because he should have moved on a long time ago, the first time the ‘raise’ got delayed (remember: f&&& me once, shame on you f&&& me twice, shame on me).



If Bob loves his family so much and wants to give them a better life, he should be pounding on every corporate and 135 door in the nation. Everyone in my department makes well over six figures, and I haven’t seen but a spattering of NetJets resumes.



Have a good day, Bob.



Ace

 

[FLYLOW22]

"Stupid is as stupid does."

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Bob Smith, whose 45, comes to Netjets with hopes and dreams of making a six figure salary in a few years.

Beytzim,

You write logical and well thought posts here. And I am not insulting or making fun of what you said. But my question is this:

Was Bob nucking futts for going to NetJets at 47? Unless he was retired military, or independently wealthy, what was he thinking? Never believe anything unless it's in writing or practice.

Bob should be knocking the doors down at the NBAA show this year and faxing resumes like a mad-man.

My .02cents.

 

[aeronautic1]

Bob is Stupid...

Bob should be selling real estate

Bob should stop listining to his wifes complaining and start pimping her lazy, pilot's wife arse.

Bob should have gone to Saudi Arabia, sold his kids into white slavery and fly for the big bucks (unless he is typed in IAI).

To say, "Bob has no options," is is not an option!

Fire your ineffective union and start over.

 

[El Chupacabra]

I guess that would be the ineffective union that negotiated the BBJ LOA?

Our working conditions are largely superior to all of the other fractionals ... thanks to the TEAMSTERS. Some of the things that others had which were better than what we have... have been taken away (like fly from home at RTA/Options).

We are not required to violate the 135/91K rest rules like (according to accounts of pilots at competing companies) some of the competition. This alone trumps pay for me.

We have not been furloughed out of seniority, like some others have.

The fact is the fight we are having now is PAR for the course. It is similar to the fights once fought at many of the major airlines.

As far as pay.... We are paid 1995 Citation S-II wages. There needs to be a correction to reflect the fact that we fly CE-750's G-200's and Falcon 2000's. Then there needs to be an additional correction for 10 years of Inflation.