NJA sucks

[Lrjet55]

You are correct, it is a 2 way street. But you aren't there so you cannot possibly comprehend what the work environment is like. Any comments to the contrary merit little or no response. In a perfect world we could all calmly traverse our day never allowing frustration in.

 

[gern_blanston]

I don't work there. I don't comprehend the work environment. I DO hear an awful lot of frax pilots complaining vehemently about their jobs whilst I'm on the road.
I DO know that if I were that bitter/angry/disgusted/hopeless/frustrated/tired/overworked, I'd be looking hard for another job, which would apparently be fairly easy to find, since I'd have been underpaid and overworked in the extreme for so long.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Why is this such a bad statement? Unless you work at NJA, or your head is up your a$$, its is blatently obvious that the frustration levels have reached an unsafe level. NJA has chosen to create and maintain a hostile work environment.

What Beytzim says is due to all this someone is going to screw up, and screw up bad. You can't have guys flying around the way we do with the frustration levels we have and not suspect something like this can happen.

Moral and frustration are at dangerous levels.

If I thought for one SECOND that I had become unsafe because of the way I felt about my company, their management, my pay, etc., I would immediately QUIT. Nothing is more important to a professional pilot than the safety of himself and his passengers.



Here’s a thought, if you meet a pilot who is so consumed with his pay, etc., that you think he’s unsafe, tell him to stop flying! Good God, if you really think there is going to be even the possibility of a crash, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. This is way more serious stuff than your stupid paycheck or contract. This is life and death.



Ace

 

[El Chupacabra]

As a former Director of Standardization and Safety, and Chairman of the Human Factors board in an organization including several hundred pilots...

Monthly we looked at factors including stress from various sources to proactively promote safety and prevent accidents.


Someone mentioned they had known pilots able to fly safely and concentrate on their flying missions while having severe personal problems in their marriage. Yes I have known such individuals as well. Many.

However, all it takes is ONE out of more than two thousand.

Often the last person to be a good judge of the situation is the person who is under such stress. Thats why there was a Human Factors Board.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

As a former Director of Standardization and Safety, and Chairman of the Human Factors board in an organization including several hundred pilots...

Monthly we looked at factors including stress from various sources to proactively promote safety and prevent accidents.


Someone mentioned they had known pilots able to fly safely and concentrate on their flying missions while having severe personal problems in their marriage. Yes I have known such individuals as well. Many.

However, all it takes is ONE out of more than two thousand.

Often the last person to be a good judge of the situation is the person who is under such stress. Thats why there was a Human Factors Board.

That’s some lofty work. I respect you for that. In all of your research, you must have come across an accident where the NTSB or other governing body had found that distraction from personal issues or pay or some other such thing, had been one of the major contributing factors. Please share it with me (us). I don’t mind hearing about NetJets pay struggles, but these are some serious (or just dramatic) issues. It is a strong statement to say that these negotiations are going to lead to an otherwise safe pilot in a good airplane to crash.



Ace

 

[FracCapt]

With the high frustration levels, the company and union warring, the stress levels of the pilot body is HIGH. Simply put, it's just a matter of time till we auger one in.

Ok dude, that's way over the top. There are many things that I don't agree with at my company, and I never feel that it's a matter of time until we "auger one in" because of that.

If you had said that due to the size of NJA, and the amount of flights and the fact that your flying into small(sometimes VFR only) airports around the country, that it is only a matter of time until there is an accident.....I would agree with you(same with my company)...but saying that because of the "stress levels" of the pilots it's only "a matter of time till we auger one in" is just a bunch of crap. If you really feel that way, quit flying. We don't want you ruining this industry. If you can't think of the task at hand, when YOUR life AND those of your PASSENGERS, are at stake....you don't deserve to be doing what you're doing.

Take your licks, admit you were drunk when you posted that, and move on. Otherwise, you will never have my respect, nor that of most of the pilots(including many NJA pilots, I bet).

 

[Mason]

Having been at Netjets for 3.5 years I can say that pilot morale is in serious jeopardy right now.

Every, and I mean EVERY pilot I have flown in the past six months has been extremely frustrated with the company and is LOOKING to ground airplanes. Even though we all treat the pax with the best of service, deep down inside everyone is wondering how they can F the company, cause delays, and 'fly the contract'.

With the high frustration levels, the company and union warring, the stress levels of the pilot body is HIGH. Simply put, it's just a matter of time till we auger one in. I pray to G-d that of course it doesn't happen.

I personally wish the company would get their head out of their collective a$$es and settle this already. Enough already.

Way over the top, if it's really this bad then those who feel that the "frustration" level could cause them to compromise safety and "auger one in" should seriously consider another career.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Changed my mind...

 

[dsptchrnja]

...How about being screamed at over the phone, intimidated, and threatened with discipline .

El Chup, this would be an infraction of the Ethics policy which reads in part:

"...NetJets endeavors to foster an environment where employees empower and respect each other. Harassment and violence in the workplace are prohibited. Workplace harassment includes any conduct that creates an unwelcome or uncomfortable situation such as ... inappropriate comments, ...bullying, intimidation..."

and

..."Employees are obligated to report immediately, any situation which compromises compliance with FAA regulations."

Your responsibility is to call the ethics hotline which who will take this seriously and deal with it at any level, not to complain about it over an public Internet message board.

BTW, anyone screaming at you would be heard by at least 100 other people so there are sure to be witnesses.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Hey you know you are right. I will delete my post and let the system go to work...

 

[hawkercpt]

Amazing... Talk now of "augering-in" aircraft. I don't think I've heard the term "auger-in" since watching "The Right Stuff". What's involved when you auger in anyway???

au·ger https://secure.reference.com/premiu...ttp://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=auger ([font=verdana, sans-serif] P [/font]) Pronunciation Key

1. 1. <LI type=a>Any of various hand tools, typically having a threaded shank and cross handle, used for boring holes in wood or ice.
   2. A drill bit.
2. 
   
   1. A machine having a rotating helical shaft for boring into the earth.
   2. A rotating helical shaft used to convey material, as in a snow blower.

 

[x402]

We've seen how well these 'investigations' work, people get promoted, not shown the door. I doubt that you can hear a heated discussion going on in the SOC from over there in dispatch.

 

[h25b]

au·ger ([font=verdana, sans-serif] P [/font]) Pronunciation Key

1. 1. <LI type=a>Any of various hand tools, typically having a threaded shank and cross handle, used for boring holes in wood or ice.
   2. A drill bit.
2. 
   
   1. A machine having a rotating helical shaft for boring into the earth.
   2. A rotating helical shaft used to convey material, as in a snow blower.

Things are truely bad now at NetJets... Rotating helical shafts, things boring in to the Earth, material being conveyed, threaded shanks, cross handles, and so on ... First I thought this talk of "augering" was just the talk of some melodramatic pilots, now I think it's a regular construction site.

 

[dsptchrnja]

We've seen how well these 'investigations' work, people get promoted, not shown the door.

Please don't pass this stuff off as if it were true without citing examples.

I doubt that you can hear a heated discussion going on in the SOC from over there in dispatch.

Thats not the point now is it?

 

[beytzim]

To Ace-of-the-base and others:

My post earlier was not melodramatic, unprofessional, or silly. Most of us like to boast how professional we are or how we seek to perfect our flying skills, communications, and behaviors. Truth be told, we are ALL flawed, as we are human. We have feelings and emotions. To deny them would be silly.

To say that going through a divorce does not affect your flying is bordering on stupidity or arrogance. To say that once you're in the cockpit, you're all of a sudden a robot who immediately forgets about your families, your mortgage payment, or job security is just lying to yourself. You may not think about it during decision height, but you're thinking about it during cruise, on every flight, period.

Simply put, the delay of the contract has put many families' lives, marriages, mortgage payments, and dreams at jeopardy. To compound, the alleged deceiptful actions of the company smack many pilots in the face on each flight.

These thoughts felt during cruise flight, or perhaps during a pre-flight or post-flight period where concentration is not at it's peak CAN affect the outcome of the flight - I don't care how professional you think you are.

I am relaying information from pilots who have spoken to me on the line. You can choose to insult me, but that's not going to fix the attitudes of Netjets pilots.

By the way, I am leaving Netjets to brighter pastures, but I recognize that many pilots cannot because of age, experience, financial requirements or simply due to the fact that the aviation industry is not hiring a lot of pilots now.

And, oh by the way, I am sober right now.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Say hello to Herb for me...

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Simply put, the delay of the contract has put many families' lives, marriages, mortgage payments, and dreams at jeopardy.

I'm sorry, I just don't see how any intelligent human being could take a job that would not sustain their family unless the pay went up. Seems really irresponisble. I don't think anyone should take a job if they cannot live for several years on the CURRENT salary (hopes, dreams and promises don't pay bills).

Ace

 

[Lrjet55]

Ace-of-the-base,


You must be the perfect individual who never does anything wrong and makes all the correct descisions.

Many, many people took the job at NJA because they were specifically told years ago that the contract was right around the corner. Many pilots were furloughed and accepted the job because it was the only job available at the time. Families have had additional children or due to unforseen events they are close to financial hardship.

I guess being perfect you couldn't possible understand what our lives are like so please refrain from making ignorant statements.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Ace-of-the-base,


You must be the perfect individual who never does anything wrong and makes all the correct descisions.

Many, many people took the job at NJA because they were specifically told years ago that the contract was right around the corner. Many pilots were furloughed and accepted the job because it was the only job available at the time. Families have had additional children or due to unforseen events they are close to financial hardship.

I guess being perfect you couldn't possible understand what our lives are like so please refrain from making ignorant statements.

This isn't perfection, buddy, just common sense. You don't take a job for less than you need to live! If your situation changes, you look for a job that DOES support your new requirements. Simple. I don't think it is ignorant to apply some simple economics and math to this. I think it's great for you guys to fight for fair wages, but it's sheer stupidity to count on it.

Ace

 

[El Chupacabra]

Ace,

There are pleny of reasons to take a job that does not pay what you need it to.

as an example,
My RICH DAD says you should take a job for experience not for money.

I guess he means so you can take away the knowledge you need and can apply in a Business of your own.

Well not many of the pilots were in it for that. But as a pilot if you are furloughed or otherwise not flying you have an issue with currency. When applying for another job you may find that to stay flying is worth more than the pay itself. Granted someone in this situation should do so only as long as it takes to MOVE ON.

Yes Ace, I admit I foolishly hung around longer than originally intended. Passing on better deals. We have seemed to be just 6 months away from settling things for over 4 yrs now. 4 years ago with 29 BBJs on order I did the math and figured I could be in Left seat of the 737 faster here than by going to SWA. I was wrong.

In for a dime, in for a dollar.