NJ Recalls

[EngineThunder]

What is the over/under on how many extended days he's done YTD.

 

[pilotyip]

Yip, you spew your weak ass crap in the fractional forum day in and day out.

Hey I started this thread, it gives me a right to post. Got lots of friends at NJ, I helped many of them get there. Turned down NJ because I could not take the pay cut. I am happy, I see many here who appear not to be. That is too bad, live is too short to be unhappy.

You actually did what I advocate. You voted in the marketplace by leaving NJA for a better paying job, rather than trying to shut NJA down. Kudos.

Good advice this guys get it.

 

[OPECJet]

A very large aircraft operator employing LOTS of pilots. And I want them to keep their jobs.

That is a bit short sighted.

Pilot salaries will have little to no bearing on NJA's long term survival. I would be interested to know how many flights are coded yellow or red as opposed to 2008. That's where NJA's success or demise hinges. It is also largely in the hands of a pilot group who have earned a better compensation package and better adherence to the agreement once signed.

 

[G4dude]

That is a bit short sighted.

Pilot salaries will have little to no bearing on NJA's long term survival. I would be interested to know how many flights are coded yellow or red as opposed to 2008. That's where NJA's success or demise hinges. It is also largely in the hands of a pilot group who have earned a better compensation package and better adherence to the agreement once signed.

Heck, I would love a big raise. As long as it doesn't cost us our jobs. Question: if we NJA pilots are paid more than our competitors, and our planes and fuel and maintenance cost the same, how will we compete with FlexJet and XO, etc?

 

[OPECJet]

Heck, I would love a big raise. As long as it doesn't cost us our jobs. Question: if we NJA pilots are paid more than our competitors, and our planes and fuel and maintenance cost the same, how will we compete with FlexJet and XO, etc?

You're already paid more than your competitors. NJA is 30% more expensive than our competitors. NJA is raking in money. They make that money off of your superior, quality service. You deserve to be compensated well for this service and in line with your peer group. Here I believe your definition of your peer group needs to be broadened.

Before the furlough I was in the X. That would put my perceived peer group as a 3rd year 737 FO. I fly similar trips to that pilot group and I expect to be compensated accordingly, especially since my core job functions occur after the passengers have left whereas the 73 guy is taking a dump and grabbing lunch after they're gone.

The company has already stated through BH issued press releases that they can afford it, all the while asking me to work for sub-regional work rules.

No thanks, and you're selling yourself VERY short if you buy in to what they're selling.

 

[G4dude]

You're already paid more than your competitors. NJA is 30% more expensive than our competitors. NJA is raking in money. They make that money off of your superior, quality service. You deserve to be compensated well for this service and in line with your peer group. Here I believe your definition of your peer group needs to be broadened.

Before the furlough I was in the X. That would put my perceived peer group as a 3rd year 737 FO. I fly similar trips to that pilot group and I expect to be compensated accordingly, especially since my core job functions occur after the passengers have left whereas the 73 guy is taking a dump and grabbing lunch after they're gone.

The company has already stated through BH issued press releases that they can afford it, all the while asking me to work for sub-regional work rules.

No thanks, and you're selling yourself VERY short if you buy in to what they're selling.

You might be right. Maybe NJA can continue to prosper and pay us more. I'm just worried.

 

[fischman]

Heck, I would love a big raise. As long as it doesn't cost us our jobs. Question: if we NJA pilots are paid more than our competitors, and our planes and fuel and maintenance cost the same, how will we compete with FlexJet and XO, etc?

Why would the owners have to a nickel more? SWA pays their crews almost $100k a year more than NJA. If an airline posts a profit of $25 million in a year, it was considered a success.

Did you not read how much money NJA made in '12 and '13?

It was a success.

The owners won't have to notice a single difference except the bigger smiles on the crews faces.

 

[jonjuan]

Why would the owners have to a nickel more? SWA pays their crews almost $100k a year more than NJA. If an airline posts a profit of $25 million in a year, it was considered a success.

Did you not read how much money NJA made in '12 and '13?

It was a success.

The owners won't have to notice a single difference except the bigger smiles on the crews faces.

And yet they won't pay. What now?

 

[Hawkered]

We strike!

 

[T-1GUY]

We implement plan G200 ZERO percent !!!!

 

[fischman]

And yet they won't pay. What now?

What are you talking about? They already are.

 

[msculley6905]

Why would the owners have to a nickel more? SWA pays their crews almost $100k a year more than NJA. If an airline posts a profit of $25 million in a year, it was considered a success.

Did you not read how much money NJA made in '12 and '13?

It was a success.

The owners won't have to notice a single difference except the bigger smiles on the crews faces.

Netjets is not an airline, it's not run/staffed/planned or anything resembling an airline other than we fly things.
Netjets profits are no where near the well run airlines'

 

[BentOver]

Andddddd along comes the crew scheduler guy...

 

[sshrae]

Netjets is not an airline, it's not run/staffed/planned or anything resembling an airline other than we fly things.
Netjets profits are no where near the well run airlines'[/QUOT

If you think the airlines are well run you are delusional at best.

 

[LAZYB]

Have you ever heard of Warren Buffet? He's got some theories on airlines and cumulative profits.

 

[msculley6905]

as you were...just pointing out the obvious

 

[sshrae]

Have you ever heard of Warren Buffet? He's got some theories on airlines and cumulative profits.

Yes, Buffet's biggest blunder ever was the USAir debacle. Airlines are the worst long term investment in the history of corporate America.

 

[rajflyboy]

How far down the list is EJA at this point?

 

[CA1900]

as you were...just pointing out the obvious

What's obvious is that you don't know the profit Netjets truly earns, because it's moved through other subsidiaries. FlightSafety, Philips 66, IBM, American Express and more, are all holdings of Berkshire Hathaway. When we "pay" for a pilot recurrent, for example, that money comes off NJA's bottom line and onto FSI's.

All of this makes it very, very easy to manipulate how "profitable" NJA is.

 

[OPECJet]

Netjets is not an airline, it's not run/staffed/planned or anything resembling an airline other than we fly things.

Netjets profits are no where near the well run airlines'

Horsecrap. NJA is a very large airline with around 3000 pilots on the seniority list and a cast of thousands in the operation. We are an airline that flies thousands of passengers every year, 1-12 people at a time in small jet aircraft.

Further, now we have a management style that is similar, and a labor/management relationship on par with the state of most airlines post 9/11.

I doubt the owner/management relationship is much better.

Netjets is an airline in every sense of the word.

 

[Some guy]

What's obvious is that you don't know the profit Netjets truly earns, because it's moved through other subsidiaries. FlightSafety, Philips 66, IBM, American Express and more, are all holdings of Berkshire Hathaway. When we "pay" for a pilot recurrent, for example, that money comes off NJA's bottom line and onto FSI's.

All of this makes it very, very easy to manipulate how "profitable" NJA is.

Dumb. Those things you mention are called operating costs. They will be paid regardless of if they are a BH subsidiary or not. Of course those costs are paid with company gross income. Do you expect FS to train 3000 pilots twice a year for free just because we are under the same umbrella?

SG

 

[jetlag7]

See y'all at the picket.....

 

[T-1GUY]

Dumb. Those things you mention are called operating costs. They will be paid regardless of if they are a BH subsidiary or not. Of course those costs are paid with company gross income. Do you expect FS to train 3000 pilots twice a year for free just because we are under the same umbrella?

SG

Even dumber. Of course they are operating costs. The problem comes in the manipulation of the numbers and the lack of verification. It is too easy for Netjets to move income off the books into other Berkshire entities and cry poor. Examples of $100 oil cans comes to mind.

 

[pilotyip]

Even dumber. Of course they are operating costs. The problem comes in the manipulation of the numbers and the lack of verification. It is too easy for Netjets to move income off the books into other Berkshire entities and cry poor. Examples of $100 oil cans comes to mind.

Here is great idea, NJ gets FSI for free, driving up costs for Part 91 corporate operators and therefore driving more business to NJ. This would cause more hiring at NJ, quicker upgrades, and with the growing pilot shortage I could get my shot at a NJ job. Of course I would take a pay cut to make the move but 7/7 schedule would be great. What do you guys think?

 

[hammer2]

Here is great idea, NJ gets FSI for free, driving up costs for Part 91 corporate operators and therefore driving more business to NJ. This would cause more hiring at NJ, quicker upgrades, and with the growing pilot shortage I could get my shot at a NJ job. Of course I would take a pay cut to make the move but 7/7 schedule would be great. What do you guys think?

Sorry Yip, no can do... There's no room for your positive attitude in the fractional industry.

 

[pilotyip]

Sorry Yip, no can do... There's no room for your positive attitude in the fractional industry.

Is it too late for a change? I can post stuff like management sucks, college degrees are the only things that count in life, unions can do no wrong, and pilots are the pinnacle of human achievement

 

[msculley6905]

Horsecrap. NJA is a very large airline with around 3000 pilots on the seniority list and a cast of thousands in the operation. We are an airline that flies thousands of passengers every year, 1-12 people at a time in small jet aircraft.

Further, now we have a management style that is similar, and a labor/management relationship on par with the state of most airlines post 9/11.

I doubt the owner/management relationship is much better.

Netjets is an airline in every sense of the word.

No, no it's not. Totally different financially and operationally. If we start hearing CASM and RASM, then I'll believe Netjets is an airline. Once we start offering connections in TEB, I'll believe we're an airline. Once we start offering only scheduled service between specific city-pairs, I'll believe Netjets is an airline. You got me on management/labor relationships, but broken clock.

 

[Some guy]

Even dumber. Of course they are operating costs. The problem comes in the manipulation of the numbers and the lack of verification. It is too easy for Netjets to move income off the books into other Berkshire entities and cry poor. Examples of $100 oil cans comes to mind.

The lawyer in charge does everything by the book. The accusations of such things is ridiculous. Do you have any proof to show that anything of the like is going on, or did you hear this from a fellow union member? In my experience, unions and their members have very vivid imaginations.

Just to humor you, suppose this were true. What would the purpose be? You are already on the upper spectrum of pay and benefits in the industry. Your furloughed buddies are thankfully returning. You have a mostly stable career and fly good equipment. Is the company asking you to pay for some of your medical? That sucks, but join the rest of the civilized corporate world. It's true I don't know anything about your negotiations, so enlighten me...what is it you are all looking for?

SG

 

[pilotyip]

The lawyer in charge does everything by the book. The accusations of such things is ridiculous. Do you have any proof to show that anything of the like is going on, or did you hear this from a fellow union member? In my experience, unions and their members have very vivid imaginations.

Just to humor you, suppose this were true. What would the purpose be? You are already on the upper spectrum of pay and benefits in the industry. Your furloughed buddies are thankfully returning. You have a mostly stable career and fly good equipment. Is the company asking you to pay for some of your medical? That sucks, but join the rest of the civilized corporate world. It's true I don't know anything about your negotiations, so enlighten me...what is it you are all looking for?

SG

Hey you cannot post this stuff here on FI. Reality has no place in the FI pilot world. I mean look at hoe their NJ pilots are already suffering, I mean I hear they have been cut from three meals a day to two meals a day and they actually have to spend part of their pre-diem on food. This is outrageous, pilots are very special and should be treated as the very special individuals that hey are.

 

[T-1GUY]

The lawyer in charge does everything by the book. The accusations of such things is ridiculous. Do you have any proof to show that anything of the like is going on, or did you hear this from a fellow union member? In my experience, unions and their members have very vivid imaginations.

Just to humor you, suppose this were true. What would the purpose be? You are already on the upper spectrum of pay and benefits in the industry. Your furloughed buddies are thankfully returning. You have a mostly stable career and fly good equipment. Is the company asking you to pay for some of your medical? That sucks, but join the rest of the civilized corporate world. It's true I don't know anything about your negotiations, so enlighten me...what is it you are all looking for?

SG

That thinking is exactly why I left the fractional world. My 121 job will pay me 40K more a year after only being on board for 12 months. This is 40k more than topped out ten year pay as an FO at Netjets. It only goes up from there. To think that this is THE UPPER SPECTRUM OF PAY and BENEFITS in the industry tells me that you have a very narrow view of THE INDUSTRY. I am a highly experienced pilot. I demand first rate compensation for my skills. I now have it. Feel free to compare yourself to cheap rate charter. It sounds like you belong there.