NJ Recalls

[BuckMurdock1]

It is really nice to see and hear about folks who got furloughed from NJA and found good jobs elsewhere. I wish more stories like yours came to light.

Yeah--I got damn lucky! Trust me, I'm not delusional enough to think I got hired for my charismatic personality and Yeager-like piloting skills- luck had a lot to do with it. Who knows- perhaps they liked my lack of narcissism. I know a lot of my fellow 495 who didn't find work for more than a yr. And let's just say that some of those jobs they did find were 'less than stellar' (like some scumbag 135 ops that pay 1/2 what NJA did and treat you like sh*t). Most that I've kept in contact with, though, have managed to end up at a better gig than NJ was--one is now at FedEx, another is pretty much running a 91 corporate op with many jets. For me; if Virgin America can just stay in business, getting furloughed from NJA may prove to be a blessing in disguise..time will tell.

 

[OPECJet]

Wasn't for me. I ended up making $30K less with a now unemployed wife. Still thankful for what a have left, however. All things considered I still landed on my feet. Just not as softly as I'd hoped for.

 

[G4dude]

Wasn't for me. I ended up making $30K less with a now unemployed wife. Still thankful for what a have left, however. All things considered I still landed on my feet. Just not as softly as I'd hoped for.

A better economy would certainly help.

 

[BentOver]

Very good to hear. Where did you end up?

Somewhere far far away from NJA and all it's BS.........Seniority # resigned and living the good life one 3 day trip at a time...

And like Buck said, without Sokol and Hansell being complete ******************************bags, I may never had had the opportunities I have now... The NJA furlough turned out to be a blessing vs. sitting at the bottom of the current list waiting for the other shoe to drop...

 

[OPECJet]

A better economy would certainly help.

I'm working in defense now. Better leadership would help. Better economy would help me get back to NJA however.

 

[cldsfr79]

Kinda curious- is FSI still just letting these old-timers slide through training?..or are they at least holding them to the standard they should be? The guy they paired me with (who was a PIC who'd been at NJA for like 20yrs) for my 6mo recurrent after hire (which was a PIC pc--for whatever reason they do that) was SO bad; he was making callouts that either were never NJA SOP or had been changed 5 yrs prior..the examiner had to correct him each time he said the wrong thing--was very annoying. I gave him the controls to brief the approach and within like 10 seconds he had busted altitude and almost stalled the airplane. Then we got to his checkride...
It was so bad, I was SURE he'd be a bust. Nope--"good job guys..see you next time". WTF!!?!?!

Was this in the sim or on a 299 line check?

If it was in the sim, even if the pilot did bust things and was flagged, they can retrain the the maneuver and recheck. If they bust again, they can then go through the training cycle again. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe per union protection, these guys wont get fired unless they fail 4 times?

So even a guy who is no longer capable of safely can probably make it though. To bad life only gives you one chance.

And in regards to a 299 check. It's a buddy-buddy system. If you are buddies with the 299 check airman, then your passing. End of story.

It's funny because when I came from the airlines, IOE instructors, and check airmen were respected, feared to a certain extent, and did their jobs and everyone was trained well. At NJ a lot of these guys have no business instructing and just enjoy being higher paid line pilot status.

If we are arguing an age thing and not just a skill thing, owners need to start requesting pilots with an age that follows part 121 requirements.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Was this in the sim or on a 299 line check?

If it was in the sim, even if the pilot did bust things and was flagged, they can retrain the the maneuver and recheck. If they bust again, they can then go through the training cycle again. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe per union protection, these guys wont get fired unless they fail 4 times?

So even a guy who is no longer capable of safely can probably make it though. To bad life only gives you one chance.

And in regards to a 299 check. It's a buddy-buddy system. If you are buddies with the 299 check airman, then your passing. End of story.

It's funny because when I came from the airlines, IOE instructors, and check airmen were respected, feared to a certain extent, and did their jobs and everyone was trained well. At NJ a lot of these guys have no business instructing and just enjoy being higher paid line pilot status.

If we are arguing an age thing and not just a skill thing, owners need to start requesting pilots with an age that follows part 121 requirements.

It was a Sim PC. I'm in complete agreement with you. Like I said in a previous post; I've got no personal dog in this fight (since I'll never be returning to NJA) other than fearing for the safety of NJA owners and my former fellow crew..as well as the fact that myself, my pax, and my crew are sharing the same airspace.

Frankly, I too was underwhelmed a bit by most of the check pilots & IPs I flew with during my short tenure there. One of the pilots that frightened me the most at NJA was a line check airman (who shortly after decided to take the 'early' retirement option). Another dipsh*t I flew with, who apparently was an IP, didn't even know about the brake-pumping/delayed retract directive procedure (been awhile..so paraphrasing) to not freeze brakes after taxiiing in snow/slush. Was my leg--and when I included that procedure in my predeparture brief..his response was: "what are you talking about?". I happened to have the same guy in my recurrent systems ground and the crap that he said in class displayed such ignorance that I was amazed he could pilot a C172..let alone be an IP on a CE-560XL. Like you said- at airlines, being a ck airman is a position that is deservedly respected and almost feared; and that is the WHOLE POINT. NJA was my only (and probably will always be) experience in pt.135/91K ops. Maybe this is just the way it is broadly in that side of aviation; perhaps I'll never know.

With regard to the age issue; until there are many smoking holes in the ground, the 135 world will be devoid of a mandatory retirement age--pure and simple. If you really want to be 'fair'- perhaps let these guys help throw & load 100lb bags a little more equitably. After all- I'm sure lifting/loading bags is in the job description, yes?

Also curious how I never noticed two 70-yr-old pilots paired together while I was there. It was always a younger guy paired with one of the 'experienced' guys.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Second-hand but story is a Falcon 2000 PIC could not even earn the recommendation for checkride in the Global a few weeks ago. Three tries, three failures, happy trails. Still trying to confirm the tale...

Speaking of Globals, looks like the fleet busted its cherry. G-IV rescued a Global breakdown last week. That lasted what? Three weeks of revenue trips?

 

[gutshotdraw]

If your second-hand story is true, then good riddance...we don't need that trash around here and everyone knows it. Having said that, the G's have no shortage of complete underachieving no-talent d0uche bags of their own (gear pins in Seattle). Just keep in mind that there are clowns on the both sides and they all need to be canned.

You do know that one of the two in Seattle was a crossover, right? Jusssss sayin.

 

[Hogprint]

Second-hand but story is a Falcon 2000 PIC could not even earn the recommendation for checkride in the Global a few weeks ago. Three tries, three failures, happy trails. Still trying to confirm the tale...

Speaking of Globals, looks like the fleet busted its cherry. G-IV rescued a Global breakdown last week. That lasted what? Three weeks of revenue trips?

To add fuel to the fire on this...

It just wasn't his bust for the Global but he had busted the BBJ and had used his last get out of jail free card to go back to his original fleet the 2000.

That's my story and it keeps growing!

 

[208starcheck]

He WAS number 5 on the seniority list.

 

[imacdog]

Good riddance then. I knew a top-20 pilot who was a real piece of work too. He's been gone for a little bit now fortunately.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Looks like maybe you guys are beginning to 'clean house', so to speak. Good. It's all about safety, after all. Hopefully these guys can learn to enjoy retirement and not keep trying to fly professionally. (they can make their wife call them "captain" )

 

[nordo_2]

NJI was like every other corporate job. No different. It was, who you knew. Good ole’ boys.

 

[CA1900]

Speaking of Globals, looks like the fleet busted its cherry. G-IV rescued a Global breakdown last week. That lasted what? Three weeks of revenue trips?

And I got to rescue a transcon for a broken G4 a couple of months ago. Planes break. Your mighty G is not immune; not by a long shot.

 

[gutshotdraw]

The PIC was not. He was an original NJI wonder...and this wasn't this retard's first F up either. Yet for some reason, this genius is still employed - he must have pictures of someone. Then there's that G-IV rocket surgeon who almost piled one into the runway in San Juan. Apparently running a checklist was just too much for this clown...where's he now you ask? This weasel went and got himself a lawyer and now he's a decaying old geezer of a G-V captain - what a joy that is. Yeah, NJI's got some real gems alright.

Jusssss sayin.

Actually, not that it matters much, but the crossover in this case is about 60 numbers senior to the "I Guy" in question, so....

It was bad juju all the way around and I feel for the the "A" guy. Wasn't his screw up and it was a classic error chain.

But you have plenty of gems like the Shrub so we're even.

 

[G4dude]

Actually, not that it matters much, but the crossover in this case is about 60 numbers senior to the "I Guy" in question, so....

It was bad juju all the way around and I feel for the the "A" guy. Wasn't his screw up and it was a classic error chain.

But you have plenty of gems like the Shrub so we're even.

What bugs me is the Union protections of bad pilots. I wish they would rethink that.

 

[jetlag7]

What bugs me is the Union protections of bad pilots. I wish they would rethink that.

I hear what you're saying, but "rethinking" isn't possible - they have an obligation under federal law. Equal representation/protection for all and such....

 

[NachoMamma]

What bugs me is the Union protections of bad pilots. I wish they would rethink that.

For once, I totally agree with you. This is one of my biggest, most fundamental complaints with the union. And yes, I too have heard the "Duty of fair representation" excuse before...it's just that, an excuse. The union should every right to refuse to defend a pilot (depending on the severity and verification of the offense...say for example, multiple opportunities for crew meals) without fear of legal retribution. Some people around here just need to grow a pair.

 

[CA1900]

For once, I totally agree with you. This is one of my biggest, most fundamental complaints with the union. And yes, I too have heard the "Duty of fair representation" excuse before...it's just that, an excuse.

What you call an excuse is federal law. If a union refuses to represent a member, it would be sued into oblivion.

Just because the union mounts a defense doesn't mean someone can't be fired. It means his side is presented.

Do you also believe suspects of a crime shouldn't be afforded lawyers if they are, in your mind, obviously guilty?