NJ Recalls

[cranedawg]

Anybody know what the DOH is for the most junior NJ captain and first officer?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Anybody know what the DOH is for the most junior NJ captain and first officer?

:bomb:

Gee, thanks for opening that can of worms....







*No offense to you Dawg, just a sore subject around here.

 

[CFIIer]

Most junior PIC DOH - March '06 - GIV
Most junior FO DOH (not furloughed) - Nov '06 - Citation X
Most Junior FO on the list DOH - Feb '09 (Furloughed)

 

[cldsfr79]

Most junior PIC DOH - March '06 - GIV
Most junior FO DOH (not furloughed) - Nov '06 - Citation X
Most Junior FO on the list DOH - Feb '09 (Furloughed)

You can't really count the NJI guys when looking at junior PICs because those upgrades came prior to integration.

Anyway:
The real junior PIC is a May 2005 date (not counting a 2005 bypass PIC of 8/2005.

If you're looking at upgrade times now, the most junior guy (not furloughed) will probably upgrade by 2020. Any furloughed or new hire might be life time FOs. That's if we don't have a mass exudes when the airlines hire. (If I was a FO and had the proper flight time, I would be looking for an exit plan). I figure this because we probably wont really grow much and most guys at NJ are in their 40s to early 50s. They can put in 20-30 years of service. Retirements just wont happen anytime soon. Last month, I flew with a 66 year old and he has no intention of retiring.

Hopefully any new contract will give the FOs 100k+ by 5 years of service (which is everybody) on our base and shedule 115k on our 18 day.

 

[BentOver]

You can't really count the NJI guys when looking at junior PICs because those upgrades came prior to integration.

Anyway:
The real junior PIC is a May 2005 date (not counting a 2005 bypass PIC of 8/2005.

If you're looking at upgrade times now, the most junior guy (not furloughed) will probably upgrade by 2020. Possibly, if the mass exodus occurs..... Any furloughed or new hire might be life time FOs. Absolutely, or at the very least 20+ year SIC's... That's if we don't have a mass exudes when the airlines hire. (If I was a FO and had the proper flight time, I would be looking for an exit plan). Guaranteed everyone on the NJ list has the time to move on. Unfortunately they will be competing with rj captains who have the same credentials but in a 121 environment. I figure this because we probably wont really grow much and most guys at NJ are in their 40s to early 50s. They can put in 20-30 years of service. Retirements just wont happen anytime soon. Last month, I flew with a 66 year old and he has no intention of retiring.

Hopefully any new contract will give the FOs 100k+ by 5 years of service (which is everybody) on our base and shedule 115k on our 18 day.

As it is right now 10 yr 7/7 tops out around $80K, 18 day is in the mid $90's... Most active SIC's are pushing 7+ yos, I would say a minimum of $120K.....for the 7/7.... To make things really fair, and which will never ever happen, everyone on the list should be paid PIC rates. Everyone on the list has the experience and it could make scheduling flights much more efficient.. But again, seniority does rule, so just a pipe dream really.:beer:

The career expectation when hired has not even come close to being realized. Especially when a guy 2-3 years senior has a career earning potential of nearly twice that of an SIC...

When you look at how much money runs through NJA, and factor in that Legacy carriers pay their FO's close to NJA captain rates, a huge raise for the SIC's is long over due

 

[G4dude]

As it is right now 10 yr 7/7 tops out around $80K, 18 day is in the mid $90's... Most active SIC's are pushing 7+ yos, I would say a minimum of $120K.....for the 7/7.... To make things really fair, and which will never ever happen, everyone on the list should be paid PIC rates. Everyone on the list has the experience and it could make scheduling flights much more efficient.. But again, seniority does rule, so just a pipe dream really.:beer:

The career expectation when hired has not even come close to being realized. Especially when a guy 2-3 years senior has a career earning potential of nearly twice that of an SIC...

When you look at how much money runs through NJA, and factor in that Legacy carriers pay their FO's close to NJA captain rates, a huge raise for the SIC's is long over due

I agree. SIC pay better go up soon, or we will lose them all, with few replacements in sight as the airlines hire the regional guys en masse.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Reality check time:

Any NJ SIC under the age of 40 should be HAMMERING the major airline application process.

Any junior PIC (lower than 50% on the list) under the age of 40 should be SERIOUSLY considering a major.

Any of the 495 STILL without a gig should hit these regionals to at least get current. Sadly, NONE of the 495 should plan on coming back.

Any PIC or SIC over 60 should be tidying up their retirement planning and spending habits.

Any PIC or SIC relatively senior between 40-60 should be working their networks, polishing up the logbook and the resume, and keeping an open mind when perusing job openings they see on line and hear about from contacts.

You have to NOT CARE if the Brain Trust threatens to close the shop. There ARE jobs out there and if Berkshire is dumb enough to close it down over an extra 40-50 million, there will be ANOTHER 3000-5000 rich people looking for pilots to fly their jets. You know, the jets they will pay for with the lawsuit money they will get from Berkshire for leaving them high and dry.

I won't take a nickel less for what I do and, in fact, I think I'm worth more. I am DEFINITELY no rah-rah union guy but I won't HESITATE to vote no and I won't hesitate to "take a little vacation" when push comes to shove.

G4Dude- I like you amigo but you and a number of our colleagues in the GLC need to get over the idea that this is a family. It AIN'T Richie's Netjets anymore and Okatie is GONE. This is BUSINESS and the industry dynamics are on OUR side for across the board improvements in pay. I'll agree there are some productivity problems that need addressing but inflation is eating away at our frozen pay every day and it's time to fix it.

 

[Praetorian]

The worm has turned.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I resemble that remark.




And I have felt that way for a loooooong time.

 

[fischman]

Reality check time:

Any NJ SIC under the age of 40 should be HAMMERING the major airline application process.

Any junior PIC (lower than 50% on the list) under the age of 40 should be SERIOUSLY considering a major.

Any of the 495 STILL without a gig should hit these regionals to at least get current. Sadly, NONE of the 495 should plan on coming back.

Any PIC or SIC over 60 should be tidying up their retirement planning and spending habits.

Any PIC or SIC relatively senior between 40-60 should be working their networks, polishing up the logbook and the resume, and keeping an open mind when perusing job openings they see on line and hear about from contacts.

You have to NOT CARE if the Brain Trust threatens to close the shop. There ARE jobs out there and if Berkshire is dumb enough to close it down over an extra 40-50 million, there will be ANOTHER 3000-5000 rich people looking for pilots to fly their jets. You know, the jets they will pay for with the lawsuit money they will get from Berkshire for leaving them high and dry.

I won't take a nickel less for what I do and, in fact, I think I'm worth more. I am DEFINITELY no rah-rah union guy but I won't HESITATE to vote no and I won't hesitate to "take a little vacation" when push comes to shove.

G4Dude- I like you amigo but you and a number of our colleagues in the GLC need to get over the idea that this is a family. It AIN'T Richie's Netjets anymore and Okatie is GONE. This is BUSINESS and the industry dynamics are on OUR side for across the board improvements in pay. I'll agree there are some productivity problems that need addressing but inflation is eating away at our frozen pay every day and it's time to fix it.

GSD is right on the money here. You stated my sentiments exactly.

 

[Praetorian]

I resemble that remark.




And I have felt that way for a loooooong time.

Now all you have to do is get the rest of the gang to feel that way too.

To many happy jobbers out there.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

unless you've had a lot of retirements

Don't you mean deaths? Last I heard (including on this thread), these old b*stards are staying put...still. Least productive/most expensive labor who will not leave voluntarily.

Kinda curious- is FSI still just letting these old-timers slide through training?..or are they at least holding them to the standard they should be? The guy they paired me with (who was a PIC who'd been at NJA for like 20yrs) for my 6mo recurrent after hire (which was a PIC pc--for whatever reason they do that) was SO bad; he was making callouts that either were never NJA SOP or had been changed 5 yrs prior..the examiner had to correct him each time he said the wrong thing--was very annoying. I gave him the controls to brief the approach and within like 10 seconds he had busted altitude and almost stalled the airplane. Then we got to his checkride...
It was so bad, I was SURE he'd be a bust. Nope--"good job guys..see you next time". WTF!!?!?!

 

[gutshotdraw]

Now all you have to do is get the rest of the gang to feel that way too.

To many happy jobbers out there.

And I have been working on that. Quietly. With respect of their beliefs. With facts. With rational, principled arguments.

What has to stop is the resentment, jealousy, name-calling, shouting, derision, and "get-even-with-em-ism" that has been coming from a large chunk of the membership for a LONG time.

It causes the objects of that scorn to push back--even against initiatives that are probably in their long-term best interests. Funniest thing is, the ones who have shouted the loudest and harshest against the GLC are the ones pounding the table hardest demanding our "unity."

Humans don't respond well to that.

 

[Sparse]

Don't you mean deaths? Last I heard (including on this thread), these old b*stards are staying put...still. Least productive/most expensive labor who will not leave voluntarily.

Kinda curious- is FSI still just letting these old-timers slide through training?..or are they at least holding them to the standard they should be? The guy they paired me with (who was a PIC who'd been at NJA for like 20yrs) for my 6mo recurrent after hire (which was a PIC pc--for whatever reason they do that) was SO bad; he was making callouts that either were never NJA SOP or had been changed 5 yrs prior..the examiner had to correct him each time he said the wrong thing--was very annoying. I gave him the controls to brief the approach and within like 10 seconds he had busted altitude and almost stalled the airplane. Then we got to his checkride...
It was so bad, I was SURE he'd be a bust. Nope--"good job guys..see you next time". WTF!!?!?!

He may be slow but he's ahead of you.

 

[G4dude]

And I have been working on that. Quietly. With respect of their beliefs. With facts. With rational, principled arguments.

What has to stop is the resentment, jealousy, name-calling, shouting, derision, and "get-even-with-em-ism" that has been coming from a large chunk of the membership for a LONG time.

It causes the objects of that scorn to push back--even against initiatives that are probably in their long-term best interests. Funniest thing is, the ones who have shouted the loudest and harshest against the GLC are the ones pounding the table hardest demanding our "unity."

Humans don't respond well to that.

I'm listening. Heck, if us all getting a raise won't put NJA at a competitive disadvantage because all pilots will be paid more due to the shortage, then BRING ON the raise! I could certainly use the money, and my FOs really need a big raise.
Gutshot, it sounds like you have been kinda battered and bruised at NJA. I was not aware of it, could you elucidate for the class?

 

[brokeflyer]

nj is 35% more expensive because there are about 10 guys upstairs paying themselves about $100 million per year.

thats where the pay cut needs to start. turds roll down hill they say?...id say the top is where the turd starts

 

[gutshotdraw]

I'm listening. Heck, if us all getting a raise won't put NJA at a competitive disadvantage because all pilots will be paid more due to the shortage, then BRING ON the raise! I could certainly use the money, and my FOs really need a big raise.
Gutshot, it sounds like you have been kinda battered and bruised at NJA. I was not aware of it, could you elucidate for the class?

You don't read the union board much, do you?

 

[jetlag7]

Reality check time:

Any NJ SIC under the age of 40 should be HAMMERING the major airline application process.

Any junior PIC (lower than 50% on the list) under the age of 40 should be SERIOUSLY considering a major.

Any of the 495 STILL without a gig should hit these regionals to at least get current. Sadly, NONE of the 495 should plan on coming back.

Any PIC or SIC over 60 should be tidying up their retirement planning and spending habits.

Any PIC or SIC relatively senior between 40-60 should be working their networks, polishing up the logbook and the resume, and keeping an open mind when perusing job openings they see on line and hear about from contacts.

You have to NOT CARE if the Brain Trust threatens to close the shop. There ARE jobs out there and if Berkshire is dumb enough to close it down over an extra 40-50 million, there will be ANOTHER 3000-5000 rich people looking for pilots to fly their jets. You know, the jets they will pay for with the lawsuit money they will get from Berkshire for leaving them high and dry.

I won't take a nickel less for what I do and, in fact, I think I'm worth more. I am DEFINITELY no rah-rah union guy but I won't HESITATE to vote no and I won't hesitate to "take a little vacation" when push comes to shove.

G4Dude- I like you amigo but you and a number of our colleagues in the GLC need to get over the idea that this is a family. It AIN'T Richie's Netjets anymore and Okatie is GONE. This is BUSINESS and the industry dynamics are on OUR side for across the board improvements in pay. I'll agree there are some productivity problems that need addressing but inflation is eating away at our frozen pay every day and it's time to fix it.

+1 :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Great post GSD!

 

[brokeflyer]

I'm listening. Heck, if us all getting a raise won't put NJA at a competitive disadvantage because all pilots will be paid more due to the shortage, then BRING ON the raise! I could certainly use the money, and my FOs really need a big raise.
Gutshot, it sounds like you have been kinda battered and bruised at NJA. I was not aware of it, could you elucidate for the class?

so now all of a sudden you desire a raise?

read below..

 

[G4dude]

so now all of a sudden you desire a raise?

read below..

I am ALWAYS in favor of a raise, unless it makes my employer less competitive and endangers our jobs.