NJ Recalls

[jtf]

The rumor from one of the last recurrent management meetings was that Hansel is counting on 10 percent attrition to keep properly staffed as the fleet shrinks. Until the majors spool up hiring I doubt we'll see more than 2% attrition since there is actually well under 10% of the pilot group that is 65 and older. You better believe you will see a mass exodus once there are good jobs to get since the new major airline contracts will be paying sic's more by the 2nd or 3rd year than they get here and there will be a better hope of captain in the next decade for those who leave. I don't see any recalls until some time in 2014 at the earliest and only if the company can actually keep from shrinking any more and lots of pilots (literally hundreds) leave for greener pastures.

 

[LAZYB]

NJ Recall

Yeah, I recall some. Not so much the SOPs or which catering was ok. Remember some about the winged tubes with wheels.

Guess I don't recall all that much...

 

[G4dude]

The only way I see recalls happening is when we lose almost all our FOs to the majors, which could happen pretty soon as the age 65 retirements continue. Although most of the remaining recallees would rather fly for the majors, I suspect, because upgrade times here at NJA are so far away.

 

[Jack Campbell]

A good first start for recalls would be for the newly-elected NJASAP President to vacate his 18-Day schedule for the 7/7 schedule.

 

[BentOver]

A good first start for recalls would be for the newly-elected NJASAP President to vacate his 18-Day schedule for the 7/7 schedule.

Nah... schedules and extended days have no effect on recalls... Remember, people much smarter than the 495 told ya so...

 

[cranedawg]

Anybody know what the DOH is for the most junior NJ captain and first officer?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Anybody know what the DOH is for the most junior NJ captain and first officer?

:bomb:

Gee, thanks for opening that can of worms....







*No offense to you Dawg, just a sore subject around here.

 

[CFIIer]

Most junior PIC DOH - March '06 - GIV
Most junior FO DOH (not furloughed) - Nov '06 - Citation X
Most Junior FO on the list DOH - Feb '09 (Furloughed)

 

[cldsfr79]

Most junior PIC DOH - March '06 - GIV
Most junior FO DOH (not furloughed) - Nov '06 - Citation X
Most Junior FO on the list DOH - Feb '09 (Furloughed)

You can't really count the NJI guys when looking at junior PICs because those upgrades came prior to integration.

Anyway:
The real junior PIC is a May 2005 date (not counting a 2005 bypass PIC of 8/2005.

If you're looking at upgrade times now, the most junior guy (not furloughed) will probably upgrade by 2020. Any furloughed or new hire might be life time FOs. That's if we don't have a mass exudes when the airlines hire. (If I was a FO and had the proper flight time, I would be looking for an exit plan). I figure this because we probably wont really grow much and most guys at NJ are in their 40s to early 50s. They can put in 20-30 years of service. Retirements just wont happen anytime soon. Last month, I flew with a 66 year old and he has no intention of retiring.

Hopefully any new contract will give the FOs 100k+ by 5 years of service (which is everybody) on our base and shedule 115k on our 18 day.

 

[BentOver]

You can't really count the NJI guys when looking at junior PICs because those upgrades came prior to integration.

Anyway:
The real junior PIC is a May 2005 date (not counting a 2005 bypass PIC of 8/2005.

If you're looking at upgrade times now, the most junior guy (not furloughed) will probably upgrade by 2020. Possibly, if the mass exodus occurs..... Any furloughed or new hire might be life time FOs. Absolutely, or at the very least 20+ year SIC's... That's if we don't have a mass exudes when the airlines hire. (If I was a FO and had the proper flight time, I would be looking for an exit plan). Guaranteed everyone on the NJ list has the time to move on. Unfortunately they will be competing with rj captains who have the same credentials but in a 121 environment. I figure this because we probably wont really grow much and most guys at NJ are in their 40s to early 50s. They can put in 20-30 years of service. Retirements just wont happen anytime soon. Last month, I flew with a 66 year old and he has no intention of retiring.

Hopefully any new contract will give the FOs 100k+ by 5 years of service (which is everybody) on our base and shedule 115k on our 18 day.

As it is right now 10 yr 7/7 tops out around $80K, 18 day is in the mid $90's... Most active SIC's are pushing 7+ yos, I would say a minimum of $120K.....for the 7/7.... To make things really fair, and which will never ever happen, everyone on the list should be paid PIC rates. Everyone on the list has the experience and it could make scheduling flights much more efficient.. But again, seniority does rule, so just a pipe dream really.:beer:

The career expectation when hired has not even come close to being realized. Especially when a guy 2-3 years senior has a career earning potential of nearly twice that of an SIC...

When you look at how much money runs through NJA, and factor in that Legacy carriers pay their FO's close to NJA captain rates, a huge raise for the SIC's is long over due

 

[G4dude]

As it is right now 10 yr 7/7 tops out around $80K, 18 day is in the mid $90's... Most active SIC's are pushing 7+ yos, I would say a minimum of $120K.....for the 7/7.... To make things really fair, and which will never ever happen, everyone on the list should be paid PIC rates. Everyone on the list has the experience and it could make scheduling flights much more efficient.. But again, seniority does rule, so just a pipe dream really.:beer:

The career expectation when hired has not even come close to being realized. Especially when a guy 2-3 years senior has a career earning potential of nearly twice that of an SIC...

When you look at how much money runs through NJA, and factor in that Legacy carriers pay their FO's close to NJA captain rates, a huge raise for the SIC's is long over due

I agree. SIC pay better go up soon, or we will lose them all, with few replacements in sight as the airlines hire the regional guys en masse.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Reality check time:

Any NJ SIC under the age of 40 should be HAMMERING the major airline application process.

Any junior PIC (lower than 50% on the list) under the age of 40 should be SERIOUSLY considering a major.

Any of the 495 STILL without a gig should hit these regionals to at least get current. Sadly, NONE of the 495 should plan on coming back.

Any PIC or SIC over 60 should be tidying up their retirement planning and spending habits.

Any PIC or SIC relatively senior between 40-60 should be working their networks, polishing up the logbook and the resume, and keeping an open mind when perusing job openings they see on line and hear about from contacts.

You have to NOT CARE if the Brain Trust threatens to close the shop. There ARE jobs out there and if Berkshire is dumb enough to close it down over an extra 40-50 million, there will be ANOTHER 3000-5000 rich people looking for pilots to fly their jets. You know, the jets they will pay for with the lawsuit money they will get from Berkshire for leaving them high and dry.

I won't take a nickel less for what I do and, in fact, I think I'm worth more. I am DEFINITELY no rah-rah union guy but I won't HESITATE to vote no and I won't hesitate to "take a little vacation" when push comes to shove.

G4Dude- I like you amigo but you and a number of our colleagues in the GLC need to get over the idea that this is a family. It AIN'T Richie's Netjets anymore and Okatie is GONE. This is BUSINESS and the industry dynamics are on OUR side for across the board improvements in pay. I'll agree there are some productivity problems that need addressing but inflation is eating away at our frozen pay every day and it's time to fix it.

 

[Praetorian]

The worm has turned.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I resemble that remark.




And I have felt that way for a loooooong time.

 

[fischman]

Reality check time:

Any NJ SIC under the age of 40 should be HAMMERING the major airline application process.

Any junior PIC (lower than 50% on the list) under the age of 40 should be SERIOUSLY considering a major.

Any of the 495 STILL without a gig should hit these regionals to at least get current. Sadly, NONE of the 495 should plan on coming back.

Any PIC or SIC over 60 should be tidying up their retirement planning and spending habits.

Any PIC or SIC relatively senior between 40-60 should be working their networks, polishing up the logbook and the resume, and keeping an open mind when perusing job openings they see on line and hear about from contacts.

You have to NOT CARE if the Brain Trust threatens to close the shop. There ARE jobs out there and if Berkshire is dumb enough to close it down over an extra 40-50 million, there will be ANOTHER 3000-5000 rich people looking for pilots to fly their jets. You know, the jets they will pay for with the lawsuit money they will get from Berkshire for leaving them high and dry.

I won't take a nickel less for what I do and, in fact, I think I'm worth more. I am DEFINITELY no rah-rah union guy but I won't HESITATE to vote no and I won't hesitate to "take a little vacation" when push comes to shove.

G4Dude- I like you amigo but you and a number of our colleagues in the GLC need to get over the idea that this is a family. It AIN'T Richie's Netjets anymore and Okatie is GONE. This is BUSINESS and the industry dynamics are on OUR side for across the board improvements in pay. I'll agree there are some productivity problems that need addressing but inflation is eating away at our frozen pay every day and it's time to fix it.

GSD is right on the money here. You stated my sentiments exactly.