NJ Recalls

[NachoMamma]

What you call an excuse is federal law. If a union refuses to represent a member, it would be sued into oblivion.

It would be sued, the facts would be presented in court, and if the union had it's sh!t together, the lawsuit would be dismissed...as it should be. Of course all of that takes a spine to implement. We spend far too much time around here coddling each other and feeling good about ourselves that idea of accountability has fallen by the wayside. The union needs to stop protecting the d0uche bags...F these clowns. They need to go.

 

[CA1900]

If the union failed to provide any representation at all to a member, the suit would NOT be dismissed. I have no idea why you think a union can pick and choose who it defends, but it just isn't the case.

 

[jetlag7]

.... union needs to stop protecting the d0uche bags...F these clowns. They need to go.

FAR's, FOM, CBA, Federal law -- we all have to follow the rules of the game. Until there's a change in the rule-book, our Union will continue to defend every member in good standing. No sense getting worked-up over this because it's out of our hands.

However, to look at things from a different perspective -- rather than focus our rage on the 1 or 2 "dead-weight" pilots, why don't we try to do something about the 2 Dozen or so IDIOT ACP's and FM's that cost the company $$$$ Millions year after year??

We all know who the "problem children" ACP's and FM's are... just about every line pilot will rattle-off the same list of names if asked. In fact, I'm pretty sure if you ask any of the ACP's and FM's who actually do their jobs and do them well (aka the "good kids") you'll probably come up with a strikingly similar list of names.

Those clowns and their idiotic decisions on a daily basis are the ones destroying our brand and costing us the loyalty of our customers. :angryfire

 

[nordo_2]

It would be sued, the facts would be presented in court, and if the union had it's sh!t together, the lawsuit would be dismissed...as it should be. Of course all of that takes a spine to implement. We spend far too much time around here coddling each other and feeling good about ourselves that idea of accountability has fallen by the wayside. The union needs to stop protecting the d0uche bags...F these clowns. They need to go.

It would be dismissed? You know this for certain?

 

[nordo_2]

What bugs me is the Union protections of bad pilots. I wish they would rethink that.

Red herring, much?

 

[fischman]

If the union failed to provide any representation at all to a member, the suit would NOT be dismissed. I have no idea why you think a union can pick and choose who it defends, but it just isn't the case.

I think law doesn't matter much here CA1900! This is FI.com after all, where everyone is right, and my company is better than yours. Even if we work for the same company.

 

[imacdog]

For once, I totally agree with you. This is one of my biggest, most fundamental complaints with the union. And yes, I too have heard the "Duty of fair representation" excuse before...it's just that, an excuse. The union should every right to refuse to defend a pilot (depending on the severity and verification of the offense...say for example, multiple opportunities for crew meals) without fear of legal retribution. Some people around here just need to grow a pair.

You do understand that unions have lost DFR lawsuits, right?

 

[Praetorian]

Yea ask ALPA. It's very existence hangs in the balance over the TWA pilot's DFR right now.

 

[dime line]

What bugs me is the Union protections of bad pilots. I wish they would rethink that.

Yea and what bugs me is, Management protections for substandard pilots that kiss azz!!

Goes both ways G4

 

[OPECJet]

It's not just the union that will get sued, it's the individual SOD as well. One of the nice little things no one told me about when I ran for ALPA LEC rep. My legal insurance was an out of pocket expense as federal law also prohibited the union from paying my legal fees should one of my pilots sue me under DFR.

 

[G4dude]

Yea and what bugs me is, Management protections for substandard pilots that kiss azz!!

Goes both ways G4

I just fly planes. Management hardly knows who I am. I hope.

 

[superfly]

Recall

2017


Good luck all, airlines are a better bet now.

 

[imacdog]

Where did you see 2017?

 

[BentOver]

Probably just the yearly "push back" of the estimated recall... It went from 2012 to 2013 to 2015, and now maybe 2017....

Management doesn't want to just come out and say.. Hey guys, don't expect recalls (or upgrades) until a decade from now.. It wouldn't look good for them.. So they just "adjust" things year by year so it is not as noticeable, or news worthy....

 

[imacdog]

I was just curious if it was coming from the company or the union, or if it was just a WAG. I'm so used to the mushroom treatment from the union that I wouldn't be surprised if it was something official circulating in CMH.

 

[jetlag7]

I was just curious if it was coming from the company or the union, or if it was just a WAG. I'm so used to the mushroom treatment from the union that I wouldn't be surprised if it was something official circulating in CMH.

As of this week, the union is under "new leadership." I'm optimistic communication with our brothers and sisters "on the outside looking in" will improve.

That being said, the only group who has ever made statements on record regarding additional furloughs or recalls has been company management. Statements from the union on these subjects has always been in response to something that was already released by company management.

 

[imacdog]

That would be a welcome surprise.

 

[BentOver]

As of this week, the union is under "new leadership." I'm optimistic communication with our brothers and sisters "on the outside looking in" will improve.

That being said, the only group who has ever made statements on record regarding additional furloughs or recalls has been company management. Statements from the union on these subjects has always been in response to something that was already released by company management.

Not entirely true... there have been a couple Union (or maybe former Union people?) Who, while trying to get us to stop "complaining", came right out and said not to get our hopes up.. And that it's going to be many years (paraphrasing).. Usually this was in regards to extended days, 18 day schedules, Msg. Board access etc discussions... If I remember, it didn't go over well, and as far as I know those certain people are no longer in their positions??

I think R.F. layed out the reasons in his dubious posts about why we were all full of s.hit, as he smuggly detailed the delivery schedule, past delivery rates from the good years etc,.. And if memory serves me correctly I believe he emphatically stated there would most likely be furloughs this Spring....

 

[Blueridgeflyer]

Not entirely true... there have been a couple Union (or maybe former Union people?) Who, while trying to get us to stop "complaining", came right out and said not to get our hopes up.. And that it's going to be many years (paraphrasing).. Usually this was in regards to extended days, 18 day schedules, Msg. Board access etc discussions... If I remember, it didn't go over well, and as far as I know those certain people are no longer in their positions??

I think R.F. layed out the reasons in his dubious posts about why we were all full of s.hit, as he smuggly detailed the delivery schedule, past delivery rates from the good years etc,.. And if memory serves me correctly I believe he emphatically stated there would most likely be furloughs this Spring....

He is one of the blustery ones I always ignore on the message boards. I trust my own professional instincts and experience to make judgements as to the health and prospects of a career at NJA. There most likely will not be another furlough. I think you'll likely see recalls in 2015 - 16. There are a variety of reasons I feel confident of this. Sales will begin to hit full stride sometime in the near future and guys will be bailing to more lucrative positions when legacy hiring ramps up. I am at a crossroad....would like to remain at NJA but we need substantial gains to meet my own financial goals. With that being said, this is not a bad place to work and I hope that those who wish to return are given the opportunity in short order. In the mean time I will do everything in my power to help this group achieve a fair and lucrative contract. It's time to impose our will on management.

 

[BentOver]

Yeah I never listened to a word that guy said. He came off as very very arrogant and matter of fact. Like he knew more than everyone else...

Good luck with negotiations. I hope it works out. As it stands, I'll make more second year here than I would have returning as a 10 year SIC on the 18 day. It's a no brainer not to return if I still could.

After seeing the # of a/c losses and potential delivery rates, along with most likely more a/c losses due to disposals. I feel attrition by current SIC's is the absolute only way NJA recalls by 2015... And that would be just for the most senior furloughees... Anyone towrds the botttom is looking at many more years.

Unfortunately even with the hiring at Majors, they will still be able to be very picky. The Legacy I ended up at had no problem turning away many many qualified candidates. It would be nice if anyone who wanted to go could, but I don't think it is going to be a mass exodus. maybe a trickle? but some attrition is better than none. On the other hand, returning because of attrition only means the job isn't worth what it used to be.