NJ Recalls

[imacdog]

I see your point but where does a line get drawn? Timing is EVERYTHING in this profession. And sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. Ask a 121 guy whose 60th birthday was before December 12, 2007.

Staying on YOS when you upgrade is industry standard. Are you suggesting we set our sights lower than industry standard?

 

[imacdog]

Let's also not forget that the introduction of the 15-day schedule in the 2007 contract was the company's idea.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Staying on YOS when you upgrade is industry standard. Are you suggesting we set our sights lower than industry standard?

Not at all. But we need to think outside the box on some things and consider alternatives to "the way it's always been done" in order to move the chains.

I dislike dogma in all forms. Religion, politics, or union ideology. Discarding any idea just because it doesn't conform to some preconceived notion of how it should be or has been done in the past strikes me as foolish. Let's put ALL the ideas on the table.

Good news is, the new union leadership seems a bit more reasonable on that front as opposed to our former, feckless leadership that seemed to say "when we want your opinion, we'll give it to you...."

 

[imacdog]

Sorry, you can't say "not at all" to aiming for lower than industry standard practices, when in fact you are suggesting we aim for lower than industry standard practices. Probably best that you let the negotiators take care of this one.

 

[brokeflyer]

Discarding any idea just because it doesn't conform to some preconceived notion of how it should be or has been done in the past strikes me as foolish."

then we should just write our own contract and the company will have to follow it. It's never been done that way.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Sorry, you can't say "not at all" to aiming for lower than industry standard practices, when in fact you are suggesting we aim for lower than industry standard practices. Probably best that you let the negotiators take care of this one.

Sorry, that is your OPINION that it is "lower that industry standard." There are plenty of ideas that should maybe be a new "industry standard" but don't meet your personal approval. I'm not saying it is the way things have to be but I AM saying we should consider a LOT of different ideas.

 

[imacdog]

Opinion? Not exactly. Going to year 1 PIC pay after an upgrade results in less compensation than going to your current YOS payscale. That's a fact, not an opinion. Therefore, it is a fact that you are advocating for lower than industry standard conditions for the leading fractional pilot group.

 

[gunfyter]

Let's also not forget that the introduction of the 15-day schedule in the 2007 contract was the company's idea.

Yes yes it was ...

 

[Ultra Grump]

This won't be popular......


1. Hourly overtime. What?

How much time, money, and effort is wasted calculating and chasing hourly overtime?

Pay us an across-the-board higher salary (with COLA) and dump all the hourly overtime stuff. Schedulers sometimes make decisions that negatively affect our owners (hence, profitability) because of edicts from on--high to avoid hourly overtime. Stupid.

Sounds like a company-induced problem to me. If that edict causes problems, "on-high" is free to change said edict at their whim. I refuse to take their self-induced problem on as my problem.

1A. So how do we prevent abuse by scheduling? Give them an incentive to turn us off when they REALLY don't need us on and save us for when they DO. How? Simple. Rest rules.

NO rest period shorter than 10 hours (from HOTEL ARRIVAL). Then, no rest period shorter than the preceding duty period, rounded UP to the next hour. In other words, you work an 11:05 duty day, you get 12:00 off. You work 12:20, you get 13:00 off. Now they have an incentive to get you into rest so it doesn't jack with a trip for the next day.

We should have this AND overtime. Additionally, OT should start after 10 hours. EMT edicts are not my problem.

2. Max days of overtime by bid period. Calculate the max overtime days by the YEAR.

Real Example: Last year, a crew was in Asia, gave up their jet to another crew, and then was asked to extend and airline to Singapore for a return trip to the States. "No problem" says the crew. Both of the pilots had worked a day or two of overtime earlier in the bid period. Now, customer says "Hey NetJets, I need to stay in Singapore a couple more days." Whoops! Change the crew out to the tune of about $20 grand because they would exceed the 5 day limit per bid period. Make the limit by the YEAR and that crew could have done the trip and saved some coin. Ripe for more Bubba abuse? Maybe. Worth it if you ask me.

So what happens when Bubba has used his yearly allotment of extended days in the first 3 months of the year, and is subsequently put in the same position?

3. Dump the 15 day schedule. You CANNOT make a financial case for a 3 or even 4 day tour amortizing the cost of airlining a pilot to or from a jet for that short a tour. Yes, we airline mid-tour but that is the COMPANY'S leak in the boat. The 15 day is a leak from OUR side of the boat.

No it's not. The company wanted it, to have the flexibility to plug holes. That they haven't used it as intended is again, not my problem. If they want to get rid of it, fine, but it should cost them. Maybe a 6-on-8-off schedule, or biddable lines. Or both.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Opinion? Not exactly. Going to year 1 PIC pay after an upgrade results in less compensation than going to your current YOS payscale. That's a fact, not an opinion. Therefore, it is a fact that you are advocating for lower than industry standard conditions for the leading fractional pilot group.

There are many that believe our comparable "industry standard" is a regional airline because of our aircraft size. I don't happen to agree with that assessment but there's a WHOLE LOT of difference between Skywest and Delta on the pay chart. So yes, it is your OPINION on what constitutes "industry standard."

It's not worth arguing because it won't gain any traction. Ideas that vary from the traditional labor vs. management paradigm rarely do.