New SkyWest pay proposal....anyone?

[Bluto]

I'm glad you personally know "most" pilots that have flown the Brasilia. Every SkyWest Brasilia pilot I know would know exactly what you were talking about if you asked them about the "Bro."

 

[Bluto]

So apparently they had technical difficulties either printing or distributing the information to the pilot group. I'm confused, it sounds like they're trying to get us a new copy of the SOP or something. If our last pay proposal was any indication, this is not going to be a lengthy document. I'd be surprised if it goes longer than 2 pages, double-spaced. Why all the secrecy? Why are they FedEx'ing it to the domiciles when every domicile has a computer and printer? This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Spoke with one of the main SAPA guys the other night. Jack for Brasilia folks is the detail that I came away with. Glad we count for something...

That's Bull********************. The SAPA guys need to not sell you Brasilia pilots down the river. I've heard they (SAPA) are nothing more than management puppets, but where's the common sense? The company is making millions in profits, but you guys aren't worthy of sharing in that?

 

[Bluto]

The rationale given by our SAPA "reps" is that the EMB is not very profitable for the comany right now with all the weight restrictions. They justify not paying more to the hardest working pilots at the company because "those guys chose to stay on the Brasilia to avoid commuting, they could hold the jet if they wanted to". Apparently, that's a good reason to deny someone a raise after 6 years of stagnation.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Bluto,

That is piss-poor rationalization on the company's part. As long as that plane is on property, somebody will have to fly it.

So how do the junior guys avoid it then? They can't, so they would be punished because of their hire dates.

 

[SSDD]

Come on Bluto...6 years of stagnation? You're starting to sound like those ASA guys! I haven't seen the proposal and it sounds like it isn't much, but to say that Skywest has been stagnant for the last 6 years is ridiculous. You lose a lot of credibility with a statement like that.

 

[Super Monkey]

Got some more info from a SAPA rep...

A check airman on SAPA told us it was basically this:

1% base increase to -200 rates
5% further increase for a -700/900 override
No increase for Bro pilots
No retro pay
Override is only paid for actual 700/900 flight time (a couple exceptions) and will only be paid IF you break daily AND monthly guarantee.
4 year "duration"

Years current + proposed over ride 700/900
5 $ 63.00 101% $ 63.63 105% $ 66.81
6 $ 65.00 - ------$ 65.65 ---------$ 68.93
7 $ 67.00 ---------$ 67.67 ---------$ 71.05
8 $ 69.00 ---------$ 69.69--------- $ 73.17
9 $ 71.00 ---------$ 71.71--------- $ 75.30
10 $ 74.00-------- $ 74.74 ---------$ 78.48
11 $ 76.00--------- $ 76.76-------- $ 80.60
12 $ 78.00 ---------$ 78.78 --------$ 82.72
13 $ 81.00 ---------$ 81.81 --------$ 85.90
14 $ 83.00 ---------$ 83.83 --------$ 88.02
15 $ 86.00--------- $ 86.86 --------$ 91.20
16 $ 88.00 ---------$ 88.88 --------$ 93.32
17 $ 91.00 ---------$ 91.91 --------$ 96.51
18 $ 93.00 ---------$ 93.93 --------$ 98.63

You both are correct. However, this BS of a proposal is taking more time to disseminate b/c of the complexity it was presented to SAPA. The override is in a credit trip rig thingy. SAPA I guess needed to work out the details of how it was going to get paid and if the "Dixie Chicks" (crew payroll) are even going to be able to figure out how to pay it. A simple override would have been way better.

I do not like the fact that we are alienating our fellow "Bro" pilots or whoever you want to call them with no raise for 4 years. No COLA adjustments for the 50 seater for 2008-2010. A meager 1% raise in 2007. Then a 1% increase in override on the 700/900 every year from 2008-2010.

No raise for the "Bro" & the CRJ200 may keep me from voting yes

 

[79%N1]

Oh, most pilots that have flown the "Brasilia" call it a Brasilia.

Yea, I don't get it either. There is not one single 'O' in the word Brazilia. Why not the Bra?

 

[scarlet]

WOW--that 700-900 pay is close to Horizon, man what a great CEO, pays millions of dollars to move ASA pilots from SLC to ATL then to LAX and 20,000 in hotel cost in SLC and going to pay thousands for SKYW crews to stay in ATL.

 

[dbchandler1]

Its actually not that close to Horizon. unless a 14 dollar an hour difference is considered "close".

 

[shamrock]

The rationale given by our SAPA "reps" is that the EMB is not very profitable for the comany right now with all the weight restrictions.

And somehow that's the pilot's fault? Jeez.

 

[Bluto]

Come on Bluto...6 years of stagnation?

Have our pay rates changed during the last 6 years? No? Then I call that stagnation. I didn't say our career expectations were stagnant. I didn't suggest our growth was stagnant. I only said our rates have been stagnant. United and Delta pay SkyWest more every year to keep up with inflation. Regardless of current aircraft-specific profitability, SkyWest pilots shouldn't suffer continually diminishing purchasing-power as inflation makes our outdated pay-scales provide less and less for our families. Nobody's asking for much. Extending the rumored 1% across the board to the 600 or so Brasilia pilots would make this proposal a slam dunk. (Or so I assume, since I have not yet read the proposal since nobody will PM me with it!!!)

 

[Palomino]

SKW slang for the EMB120 Brasilia.

it's not a 'Bro'. it's an EMB-120 Brasilia. period. drives me nuts that guys who have 20 hrs in the airplane call it a 'Bro'.

i've never heard the airplane called a 'Bro' and i flew it for 3 years. flightinfo.com is the first and last place i've ever heard it. i can only hope it doesn't find its way into the vernacular.

 

[bender]

Sorry to tell you Palomino, but it's the 'bro man. It must have been started by a Californian but it's what everyone at SKW knows the Brasilia as.

 

[SKYW Pilot]

I think I've earned the right to call it whatever the heck I want.... almost 6000 hours in the airplane... I call it the "Bro". And anyway...

WHO THE HECK CARES!!!

More importantly... where the %^$# is the pay proposal?!

 

[Bluto]

it's not a 'Bro'. it's an EMB-120 Brasilia. period. drives me nuts that guys who have 20 hrs in the airplane call it a 'Bro'.

i've never heard the airplane called a 'Bro' and i flew it for 3 years. flightinfo.com is the first and last place i've ever heard it. i can only hope it doesn't find its way into the vernacular.

Dude, Palomino, why don't you get off your high horse. (Get it!? ) Who cares if it finds its way into the vernacular? It's a nick-name. Cool guys like you will be able to differentiate themselves from the unwashed masses by always referring to it as a "EMB-120 Brasilia" "PERIOD".

By the way, I prefer the title Empresa Brasileira de Aeronáutica S.A to the improper Embraer, or even worse EMB. Please make a note of it so the vernacular isn't tainted. Now back to your regularly scheduled SAPA bash!

 

[bmpilot2003]

it's not a 'Bro'. it's an EMB-120 Brasilia. period. drives me nuts that guys who have 20 hrs in the airplane call it a 'Bro'.

i've never heard the airplane called a 'Bro' and i flew it for 3 years. flightinfo.com is the first and last place i've ever heard it. i can only hope it doesn't find its way into the vernacular.

Who CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ENOUGH ALREADY

 

[Peter Sashell]

Splitting the pay for the 50 vs 70/90 should be enough to justify voting for it. It sucks for the EMB guy's but better to get split rates than a increase on an airplane that will only decrease in numbers as apposed to an airplane that will only grow in numbers.

 

[MYFpilot]

Sorry to tell you Palomino, but it's the 'bro man. It must have been started by a Californian but it's what everyone at SKW knows the Brasilia as.

Rater than the "Bro", prefer these other two terms of endearment for the Brasilia...

Mexican King Air

or

Vibraliner

 

[Spicepilots]

Splitting the pay for the 50 vs 70/90 should be enough to justify voting for it. It sucks for the EMB guy's but better to get split rates than a increase on an airplane that will only decrease in numbers as apposed to an airplane that will only grow in numbers.

In reality, if you fly the EMB right now, you are either making captain's pay, or (excepting the few who choose to remain past the duration of the seat-lock) first year pay. A payraise for the brasilia would have impacted few in the company percentage-wise, which is why (providing we have all the information, which we probably don't) the company and SAPA weren't bothered enough to throw them a bone. Actually, first year pay ought to be raised across the board. I can't get too excited about the split rates, when it will mean nothing for those too junior to successfully bid those lines. Basically, it's a five percent raise for the senior guys on the CA/FO lists, and a 1% raise for everyone else. But at least we can stop taking it in the teeth about the stupid "you guys fly 90-seat jets [with 70-76 seats on them] for 50-seat pay".

 

[jehtplane]

Here are some rough numbers for Capt.
Years current + proposed over ride 700/900
5 $ 63.00 101% $ 63.63 105% $ 66.81
6 $ 65.00 - ------$ 65.65 ---------$ 68.93
7 $ 67.00 ---------$ 67.67 ---------$ 71.05
8 $ 69.00 ---------$ 69.69--------- $ 73.17
9 $ 71.00 ---------$ 71.71--------- $ 75.30
10 $ 74.00-------- $ 74.74 ---------$ 78.48
11 $ 76.00--------- $ 76.76-------- $ 80.60
12 $ 78.00 ---------$ 78.78 --------$ 82.72
13 $ 81.00 ---------$ 81.81 --------$ 85.90
14 $ 83.00 ---------$ 83.83 --------$ 88.02
15 $ 86.00--------- $ 86.86 --------$ 91.20
16 $ 88.00 ---------$ 88.88 --------$ 93.32
17 $ 91.00 ---------$ 91.91 --------$ 96.51
18 $ 93.00 ---------$ 93.93 --------$ 98.63

Those rates are pathetic

 

[BigLebowski]

Can someone from SkyW PM me the rate increase...I'm at SkyW but dont' work for the next few days

 

[Peter Sashell]

how about "taco rocket"

 

[Terrain Terrain]

its in your skywest email account

 

[trachyte11]

A check airman on SAPA told us it was basically this:

1% base increase to -200 rates
5% further increase for a -700/900 override
No increase for Bro pilots
No retro pay
Override is only paid for actual 700/900 flight time (a couple exceptions) and will only be paid IF you break daily AND monthly guarantee.
4 year "duration"

That's basically what I see in my email. Vote yes to this, then yes to representation...

 

[HA25]

Oh, most pilots that have flown the "Brasilia" call it a Brasilia.

Not my recollection...

we called it "Taco", "Brakillya", "Slider 1 and Slider 2" etc.. rarely did I call it a E-120 or Brasilia..

 

[HA25]

Those rates are pathetic

This whole profession has become pathetic.. but we're all still here, which is even more pathetic.

 

[FightingIrish]

This whole profession has become pathetic.. but we're all still here, which is even more pathetic.

Then it's either not that pathetic compared to other jobs, or we are all idiots - which is it?

 

[HA25]

Then it's either not that pathetic compared to other jobs, or we are all idiots - which is it?

The latter.. (mind you I include myself in that grouping).

Seriously, whether it's the free market, union/non-union or what ever, in the end we're grossly underpaid. I've spent time working on the money side of aircraft recently and can tell you without a doubt that the pay equation of airplane operation isn't anywhere near the biggest factor.. it just happens to be the only one that can be squeezed easily, as airplanes can't be made cheaper, and fuel cost are difficult to control if at all.. We allow it to be this way, so we're to blame. When 747 and MD-11 pilots are being paid $35000/yr at the various 2nd tier carriers, how much can we expect to get paid flying a 30 pax E-120? The problem is from the top down, not so much from the bottom up.


I mean, how much have houses gone up in the past 5 years? Cars? Fuel? insurance rates?

Yet, 5 years ago pilots were on average making more than they are today, especially when inflation is factored in. 9/11 or not, there is a problem with how we're all doing this.

 

[FightingIrish]

The latter.. (mind you I include myself in that grouping).

Seriously, whether it's the free market, union/non-union or what ever, in the end we're grossly underpaid. I've spent time working on the money side of aircraft recently and can tell you without a doubt that the pay equation of airplane operation isn't anywhere near the biggest factor.. it just happens to be the only one that can be squeezed easily, as airplanes can't be made cheaper, and fuel cost are difficult to control if at all.. We allow it to be this way, so we're to blame. When 747 and MD-11 pilots are being paid $35000/yr at the various 2nd tier carriers, how much can we expect to get paid flying a 30 pax E-120? The problem is from the top down, not so much from the bottom up.


I mean, how much have houses gone up in the past 5 years? Cars? Fuel? insurance rates?

Yet, 5 years ago pilots were on average making more than they are today, especially when inflation is factored in. 9/11 or not, there is a problem with how we're all doing this.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just commenting on how we all complain about it but we keep doing it. Then we blame it on management, or Skywest, or Mesa , or ALPA, or the Republicans. Maybe it is just our fault and nobody elses. Nobody is holding a gun to our head to do this.