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Guess what gents? More than one person gets a bit defensive when you guys come on here and claim certain global domination. Also, news snippets make it easy to question certain countries policies. And, no, we aren't the same person. Good one, though.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
8sugarsugar said:
i'm also starting to wonder if Sniper and G Lee are the same person?
Click to expand...



No we are not, I am ex NWA , he is DL
I am DTW on the Bus, he is in ATL 76
I am on the left seat, he is on the right


I made more money than him..... sorry General


267k which inludes the profit sharing and B fund

no housing $$$$ from DL


ps

FT3
 
sniper said:
No we are not, I am ex NWA , he is DL
I am DTW on the Bus, he is in ATL 76
I am on the left seat, he is on the right


I made more money than him..... sorry General


267k which inludes the profit sharing and B fund

no housing $$$$ from DL


ps

FT3
Click to expand...

Not bad. Big bus or mini bus?


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
My bet big with all the greenies flying there.
 
This pisses me off. EK and NAS are going to beat us out of A LOT of INTL routes in the future. It's naive to think otherwise. Look at the NAS and EK orders. Look at the economic advantage their business model is going to give them.

They hold a clear competitive advantage, and it IS going to go the way of the US shipping industry without government intervention. Ours, and enough other governments have proven they will prioritize global competition and consumers over protection of domestic labor groups. PERIOD.

Maybe countries like Germany and Austria fought back against EK, but it is going to be a lot different with NAS, an EU corporation. It's insane to think that governments will stop economic market forces at play like this, when in the past, the opposite has always happened.

It makes sense the senior guys aren't worried about this as much because it won't really be an issue until 10-20 years from now when NAS and EK have more wide bodies than all US carriers combined.

What is BS is Expats coming on here and bragging about their corporation and superior product. We get it. We know. In the UAE you can fire fat b***ty FA's whereas we can't here because of labor laws. You can hire airplane cleaners for one dollar an hour from India and chop their knads off if they don't get it perfectly clean. And ON and ON.

Ex-pats working for these overseas carriers... Take a look at Detroit and witness what you are helping do to the economy and people of your homeland. I get why you do it, a big online bank account balance is nice to look at isn't it? (not that I know) But gloating over it? total bs. Just leave and let us here in the States deal with this S*** sandwich.
 
Blaming everything and everyone only goes so far, the answer for the US airline industry to lead in service as it once did is within....!
 
KarmaPolice said:
This pisses me off. EK and NAS are going to beat us out of A LOT of INTL routes in the future. It's naive to think otherwise. Look at the NAS and EK orders. Look at the economic advantage their business model is going to give them.

They hold a clear competitive advantage, and it IS going to go the way of the US shipping industry without government intervention. Ours, and enough other governments have proven they will prioritize global competition and consumers over protection of domestic labor groups. PERIOD.

Maybe countries like Germany and Austria fought back against EK, but it is going to be a lot different with NAS, an EU corporation. It's insane to think that governments will stop economic market forces at play like this, when in the past, the opposite has always happened.

It makes sense the senior guys aren't worried about this as much because it won't really be an issue until 10-20 years from now when NAS and EK have more wide bodies than all US carriers combined.

What is BS is Expats coming on here and bragging about their corporation and superior product. We get it. We know. In the UAE you can fire fat b***ty FA's whereas we can't here because of labor laws. You can hire airplane cleaners for one dollar an hour from India and chop their knads off if they don't get it perfectly clean. And ON and ON.

Ex-pats working for these overseas carriers... Take a look at Detroit and witness what you are helping do to the economy and people of your homeland. I get why you do it, a big online bank account balance is nice to look at isn't it? (not that I know) But gloating over it? total bs. Just leave and let us here in the States deal with this S*** sandwich.
Click to expand...

Once again purely thinking about yourself.

How is Boeing going to do if the US protects US airlines. All the airlines have proven that regardless of the chest thumping they do about Protecting American jobs - they will still go running off to France to spend billions. Do you not remember "Freedom Fries"

EK is good for American jobs...maybe not your job.

Talk to your mgt about buying American before you pontificate on here about patriotism.

fv
 
fareview said:
Once again purely thinking about yourself.

How is Boeing going to do if the US protects US airlines. All the airlines have proven that regardless of the chest thumping they do about Protecting American jobs - they will still go running off to France to spend billions. Do you not remember "Freedom Fries"

EK is good for American jobs...maybe not your job.

Talk to your mgt about buying American before you pontificate on here about patriotism.

fv
Click to expand...
Why don't you list the pay rates of the non pilot employees? Is it true that dispatchers are paid $180 per month? You do have a low cost competitive advantage, but I wan't the details from the horses mouth. Anybody can expand and grow in your environment. Lets see......Low cost labor, cheap capital loans, maybe even cheaper fuel?
 
8sugarsugar said:
poor Gen Lee is not happy because he will never be a wide body capt, maybe he even failed his narrow body upgrade...a serious inferiority complex, as in First Officer Lee's case, doesn't come naturally without any previous negative experience.
Click to expand...
He will be making LHS on a wide body, eventually.....
 
dalad said:
Why don't you list the pay rates of the non pilot employees? Is it true that dispatchers are paid $180 per month? You do have a low cost competitive advantage, but I wan't the details from the horses mouth. Anybody can expand and grow in your environment. Lets see......Low cost labor, cheap capital loans, maybe even cheaper fuel?
Click to expand...

Dalad,

We are not saying that we are not taking advantage of lower labor costs. It's not my fault that the labor demand/supply curve are at lower multiples here than there.

Corporate America takes full advantage of that. Do you think iPads are made in Seattle? Our freighters are full of high end American electronics and fashion goods coming out of China & Bangladesh.

But that's okay because it doesn't involve DAL? I mean do you not see the trend here? The hypocrisy.

The reason the Gulf3 are changing global aviation is simply GEOGRAPHIC.
We are in the middle of the great trade routes of the world whereby everyone can connect with one stop. That's just not an advantage the US enjoys. I wish it were - truly I do. But reality is reality.

AA's mgt were quick to figure it out. I personally think that will have serious long term consequences for EK. It's fundamentally a great tie -up. (QR just announced MIA -huge LATAM feed) The Majors just cannot cover this part of the world like we do and we cannot cover the worlds largest market in $ terms - the US.

I believe Etihad will probably end up with DAL at which point UA will have tough choices to make.

Both DAL & UA mgt have strongly voiced their misgivings but don't think there is no conversation going on in both boardrooms "But what if they go with EK? Where are we left?"

EK is the golden goose for either & either would be golden for EK - first mover wins.

Because believe you me - the institutional shareholders of the one left behind are going to ask the CEO "why the f*** didn't we do that?"


fv
 
Last edited:
dalad said:
Why don't you list the pay rates of the non pilot employees? Is it true that dispatchers are paid $180 per month? You do have a low cost competitive advantage, but I wan't the details from the horses mouth. Anybody can expand and grow in your environment. Lets see......Low cost labor, cheap capital loans, maybe even cheaper fuel?
Click to expand...

Dispatchers no

But the low skill ground handlers take home about $200-300/month. Free food, free house, free transportation, no expenses. All that money goes home to pakistan and india. Considering the bottom 50% of the world population lives on a dollar a day, its a good deal.

Looks horrible from an American perspective, but how many American are able save $300/month?

So what to do??? tell Emirates they can't buy American Boeing 777's until they pay their unskilled laborers the same as Delta does in Atlanta?

Ask Delta what they pay their ground staff in Dakar or Lagos? I would guess its lower than what Emirates pays ground staff in Dubai.
 
Last edited:
fareview said:
Dalad,

We are not saying that we are not taking advantage of lower labor costs. It's not my fault that the labor demand/supply curve are at lower multiples here than there.

Corporate America takes full advantage of that. Do you think iPads are made in Seattle? Our freighters are full of high end American electronics and fashion goods coming out of China & Bangladesh.

But that's okay because it doesn't involve DAL? I mean do you not see the trend here? The hypocrisy.

The reason the Gulf3 are changing global aviation is simply GEOGRAPHIC.
We are in the middle of the great trade routes of the world whereby everyone can connect with one stop. That's just not an advantage the US enjoys. I wish it were - truly I do. But reality is reality.

AA's mgt were quick to figure it out. I personally think that will have serious long term consequences for EK. It's fundamentally a great tie -up. (QR just announced MIA -huge LATAM feed) The Majors just cannot cover this part of the world like we do and we cannot cover the worlds largest market in $ terms - the US.

I believe Etihad will probably end up with DAL at which point UA will have tough choices to make.

Both DAL & UA mgt have strongly voiced their misgivings but don't think there is no conversation going on in both boardrooms "But what if they go with EK? Where are we left?"

EK is the golden goose for either & either would be golden for EK - first mover wins.

Because believe you me - the institutional shareholders of the one left behind are going to ask the CEO "why the f*** didn't we do that?"


fv
Click to expand...

I've said this a million times. The first major to strike a deal with Emirates will win.

Sniper/General Lee, ever read the book, "Who moved my cheese?"

The only thing you can bet on in aviation is change.
 
Andy said:
Good to see that the ME has improved its treatment of unskilled labor since the last time I was there. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/05/201352375248751541.html

Hopefully the Gulf3 will take over all of the world's flying so all airline pilots will have the opportunity to live in the ME. Every airline pilot deserves to live in Jahannam on earth. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dubai-hell-tortured-thrown-jail-2122678
Click to expand...

Andy,

Totally agree. Indefensible & disgraceful.
As was invading Iraq.

Still, it's a lot better in the UAE than Saudi & Qatar.
Deltas code share - Saudia
AA's - Qatar.

Way to stay principled

fv
 
Last edited:
fareview said:
Andy,

Totally agree. Indefensible & disgraceful.
As was invading Iraq.

Still, it's a lot better in the UAE than Saudi & Qatar.
Deltas code share - Saudia
AA's - Qatar.

Way to stay principled

fv
Click to expand...

Which time invading Iraq was indefensible? Gulf War I, when they invaded Kuwait and Bush Jr had too many female parts to finish the job? Gulf War II, where Saddam, his family, and his henchmen still used woodchippers (among other forms of torture) on prisoners?
Spare me the sanctimonious BS; Saddam ruled through brutality. The only difference between the rest of the ME rulers is shades of grey. I dare you to kiss your wife in public in Dubai.

I've been to Saudi, Qatar, UAE. I saw very little difference in the treatment of TCNs in Qatar and the UAE. By the way, you're also a TCN - just paid more than the unskilled labor that work there.

You guys can choose to ignore the inhuman treatment of unskilled labor in the UAE as many have done here. Or you can say that they've got it better in the UAE than back home. Whatever. I've visited some of the 'free housing' that's given to these people in Qatar and the UAE. Dogs are treated better in the US.

Enjoy Jahannam.
 
The second one Sherlock. The UAE were fighting beside us in the first.

No one chooses to ignore the inhuman treatment of workers. That's not what this thread is about but seems to be the only subject you and others bring up.

If you want to go there...then tell DAL & AAs mgt to call off Saudia & Qatar code shares and stop buying Apple products.

As to torture...Saddam was a psycho we know...but let's not throw stones .

fv
 
fareview said:
The second one Sherlock. The UAE were fighting beside us in the first.

No one chooses to ignore the inhuman treatment of workers. That's not what this thread is about but seems to be the only subject you and others bring up.

If you want to go there...then tell DAL & AAs mgt to call off Saudia & Qatar code shares and stop buying Apple products.

As to torture...Saddam was a psycho we know...but let's not throw stones .

fv
Click to expand...

Don't forget the rape victims who are themselves jailed.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

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