New Emirates order....

[Flopgut]

Nope...most governments understand that open (or more open) skies in the long run is good for the consumer & jobs.

fv

I wish the "long run" had been considered back in 1944...

 

[fareview]

Easy there buddy, you're not quite that revolutionary. This all just boils down to air transportation A to B and skilled labor. My neighbors in Houston, TX have spent decades in the oil patch, and not one of them says Emirates will sustain this momentum. Easy come, easy go.

I actually agree with you nothing is set in stone and this could got chits up at which point I will take my 777 experience and go somewhere else. I doubt it though.

How long EK will last is a different debate but what those who do not live here don't understand - is the vast population bases we serve - that are completely under served. Pak, India, Bangla & SL is a market of 2bn+. The Indian carriers are not able to handle that growth (or much else).

What ticks 'us over here' off is the foundation that GL et al use to attack - and that is that it's bad for American jobs. Which is completely untrue. It may be bad for a DAL pilot because of what we have done on MXP-JFK (unreal in just one month with three competitors - well done EK) but just like RJs & LCCs - it's good for overall jobs but bad for one specific co.

It's business - and we are good at it as are others - but this whole 'morally outraged' charade is funny. DAL code shares with Saudia (Kerry just said they were a "very, very, important ally") & AA has gone all in with QR.

As to your Houston oil buddies...we know all about them ...can't get on in the front ..ever... Jam packed with Oilmen going to Erbil, Basrah, Baghdad, NBO, EBB etc

Now how are DAL & UA going to get their oilmen there....

...AA have a plan.

fv

 

[Flopgut]

We'll look, the Gulf airlines are indeed bad for US jobs. You're certainly buying a lot of US built airplanes, but the way you're buying them is not sustainable. When that's the financial reality things change on a whim, and that will hurt US aircraft builders even worse. It's all fun and games now because Uncle Sam doesn't want to let his airlines off the ropes. But if that changes and this starts to get to be work, the easy money will quit pouring into Emirates. I've seen enough pilots lose work, so I'm not wishing that on you even in the least bit. But what pisses us off is how these markets need to be uber free now that we've had the crap beat out of us. It's ridiculous. The US navy is bigger than the next 7 naval fleets in the world combined. As you pointed out, yes LCCs started here and they're successful. Fractionals and big air freight are led in the world by US companies. Come on, do you really think US legacies can't step up their game? Or that we won't? We have to get our government to see that a National Air Transportation policy is needed ASAP, and what that should involve is some serious restrictions on Gulf carriers access to our destinations. At least as much as was afforded the rest of the world when this all started, ought to be granted us.

 

[fareview]

Flop

Nothing makes me happier than seeing the US economy and US airlines prosper - and I mean that. But I know the hand that feeds me deserves credit.

With DAL serving multiple Asian airports out of Tokyo - you want a double standard.

Richie Anderson will have all the ears in DC he wants if he pulls out of Tokyo to defend fifth freedom principles that he wants to impose on another carrier in MXP.

Until then - it's completely hypocritical.

If you can do it - then we can do it - simple as that

If he is so concerned about American jobs then he wouldn't have ordered his latest wide bodies from the French. Our next order is going to the good 'ole USA - and that makes me feel good.

fv

 

[Flopgut]

Flop

With DAL serving multiple Asian airports out of Tokyo - you want a double standard.

fv

I'm not sure you understand why/how RA/DAL has those. There's a lot of history there that is specifically between Japan and the US. Is everything of old suppose to be scrapped, moved and torn down to enable Emirates to grow? Do we move borders, remove sovereignty, reshape the globe and past world events because you guys have momentum? If we do that, what happens when US airlines get it together and we have momentum? Cause we've been down that road and for some reason we never get as much as we seem to have to give...

 

[fareview]

Again you are missing the point. The issue is about US jobs...not necessarily US "AIRLINE" jobs. Try telling the Boeing machinists to stop EK growing.

And BTW don't UA do an intra Gulf hop (KWI-BAH?)

DALs concern for US jobs dilutes credibility when they order French airplanes.

It ain't just about you guys ...

On on the subject of DAL mgt credibility, I also think its ironic that GL boasts about how much money DAL made in the quarter - $1.3bn. Let me tell you that is an enormous number.

So the poor guys who were on here last year saying to GL and Co. "Guys don't take the carrot that the co. is offering to get a quick deal signed" only to be met by protest.

Guess what - the numbers were so- so until the pilot deal was signed...and now ...through the roof. They knew this and they played you beautifully.

Which is fine - that's their job, but let's not be naive about mgt's motives - for all of us.

As to sovereignty...eh what?

fv

 

[Flopgut]

As to sovereignty...eh what?

fv

Yeah, uh, kind of a stretch, I know. I'm just wondering what line you don't think needs to be crossed in order to give EK unfettered access to the world? The US Japanese relationship grew out of a war. Is it correct that your airline interject itself into that equation? Or use it as an example of how you think EK should be allowed to do business? I don't lack for respect or appreciation for you personally or most of the pilots over there. But those guys you play fartcatcher to? Another story.

 

[fareview]

To each their own.

"Those guys" are about to dump a massive amount of money into the US economy...again.

fv

 

[Flopgut]

I've got to go fly. Let's call it a day. Have a good weekend.

 

[General Lee]

Again you are missing the point. The issue is about US jobs...not necessarily US "AIRLINE" jobs. Try telling the Boeing machinists to stop EK growing.

And BTW don't UA do an intra Gulf hop (KWI-BAH?)

DALs concern for US jobs dilutes credibility when they order French airplanes.

It ain't just about you guys ...

On on the subject of DAL mgt credibility, I also think its ironic that GL boasts about how much money DAL made in the quarter - $1.3bn. Let me tell you that is an enormous number.

So the poor guys who were on here last year saying to GL and Co. "Guys don't take the carrot that the co. is offering to get a quick deal signed" only to be met by protest.

Guess what - the numbers were so- so until the pilot deal was signed...and now ...through the roof. They knew this and they played you beautifully.

Which is fine - that's their job, but let's not be naive about mgt's motives - for all of us.

As to sovereignty...eh what?

fv

The DL airbus orders will have the majority built in the new Alabama plant. New US jobs there. The intra Gulf flights on United are "tag on flights." They also do the same in Australia with a 744, to SYD with a tag on to MEL. Australia doesn't allow Australian passengers to go between the two, and Qantas also does the same between LAX and JFK. They pick up people in JFK and take them to LAX, where they go onto Brisbane, Melbourne, or Sydney, on Qantas.

As far as the contract goes, you are correct, the pilots did sign a bit early. One of the things reduced was the percentage for profit sharing. But, the profit "pie" given to all DL employees is actually a lot larger. Last year the average payback was about 4.5% of your W2 in the form of a profit sharing check. This next one, since the amount being put in to the "pool" is larger overall, rumors are putting the next check at 6-7%. The contract also gave a 20% pay increase over 3 years, which is FANTASTIC. I'll take a 20% raise every 3 years. With the unbelievable numbers as of late, what do you think will be the next raise? It can only get better. Throw in pilot shortages, new fatigue rules (no India allnight turns here), and the other two biggies also competing for pilots, and things are looking good.



Bye Bye---General Lee